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Thread: New Mark Cole bill would ban "Policing for Profit" Seizures

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    New Mark Cole bill would ban "Policing for Profit" Seizures

    Bart Hinkle seems to like it:

    Side effects may include seizures
    It probably seemed like a bright idea at the time: Let the police seize the ill-gotten gains of alleged drug dealers and other suspected criminals and sell it, using the proceeds to buy much-needed crime-fighting gear.

    Unfortunately, the process — civil asset forfeiture — did not require convicting anybody of a crime. In fact, it didn’t even require charging anybody with a crime. Not surprisingly, this led to rampant abuse, which has been abundantly documented for many years.

    ...

    But Virginia lawmaker Mark Cole is going to give it another shot. That’s as good a sign as any that civil asset forfeiture has jumped the shark.

    You can’t get much more conservative than Cole, a Republican who represents Spotsylvania in the General Assembly, without falling off the edge of the political spectrum.

    ...

    On his website, Cole boasts of supporting law enforcement. “Public safety and emergency services are Mark Cole’s top priorities,” reads a quote from Stafford County Sheriff Charlie Jett. “He helped ensure that funding was available for pay raises for deputies and state troopers. He has been a strong voice for us in Richmond.”

    But policing for profit has gone too far, even for Cole. In anticipation of the 2015 legislative session, he already has filed a bill (HB 1287) that would forbid asset forfeiture without a conviction — and even then only after all appeals have been exhausted.

    ...

    Taking property from people who haven’t been charged with any crime is “fundamentally un-American,” Cole told the online news organ Watchdog.org.

    ...

    Cole says he has heard from some commonwealth’s attorneys who think his bill would make their job harder.
    The bill's language looks pretty good for a first step, but I think it needs work.

    For one thing, I would like to see a mandate that if law enforcement damages, destroys, or loses illegally seized personal property, they shall be liable for damages.

    And I have to be concerned when gun-hating Sheriff Jett is involved. No doubt his interests are incompatible with ours on this topic.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Civil forfeiture has become a sacred cash cow in some areas - a legal license to steal.

    The misuse use must stop!
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    Bart Hinkle seems to like it:

    Side effects may include seizures


    The bill's language looks pretty good for a first step, but I think it needs work.

    For one thing, I would like to see a mandate that if law enforcement damages, destroys, or loses illegally seized personal property, they shall be liable for triple damages.

    And I have to be concerned when gun-hating Sheriff Jett is involved. No doubt his interests are incompatible with ours on this topic.
    One little change

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Civil forfeiture has become a sacred cash cow in some areas - a legal license to steal.

    The misuse use must stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    There; I elaborated for you!

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    Ain't that what the RKBA is all about?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Civil forfeiture has become a sacred cash cow in some areas - a legal license to steal.

    The misuse use must stop!
    Yep!

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Ain't that what the RKBA is all about?
    Has NOT ONE EFFING THING to do with RKBA.

    Although I's like to be entertained by reading how you managed to imagine it had even a tenuous connection.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    ...........

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Has NOT ONE EFFING THING to do with RKBA.

    Although I's like to be entertained by reading how you managed to imagine it had even a tenuous connection.

    stay safe.
    Had your gun and vehicle been seized, then converted (sold) to the benefit of a certain county, you might just feel a weeee bit differently, me thinks.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Had your gun and vehicle been seized, then converted (sold) to the benefit of a certain county, you might just feel a weeee bit differently, me thinks.
    Seriously doubt it. If anything, it's the Takings Clause of the 5th Amendment. (Just because a gun is involved does not automatically make it RKBA-related.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Has NOT ONE EFFING THING to do with RKBA.
    .
    Wrong.

    You need reprogramming dude...you just let people steal from you?

    "Yes, sir..I'm gonna need to keep this $25,000 I found on you, its a mere mathematical possibility its from drug transactions."

    "Hey, don't get mad about it, you can petition the court for.."

    "OK, here's your damn money back..jeesh, some people"
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 10-22-2014 at 09:36 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Wrong.

    You need reprogramming dude...you just let people steal from you?

    "Yes, sir..I'm gonna need to keep this $25,000 I found on you, its a mere mathematical possibility its from drug transactions."

    "Hey, don't get mad about it, you can petition the court for.."

    "OK, here's your damn money back..jeesh, some people"
    Never said a thing about government stealing being OK (or not OK). Just said government stealing has nothing to do with RKBA - even when they steal your guns.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Never said a thing about government stealing being OK (or not OK). Just said government stealing has nothing to do with RKBA - even when they steal your guns.

    stay safe.
    ...but you are implicitly saying that use of a firearm against the government trying to steal from you is not even a thought process. It is in that regard I believe Mister Beth is making a connection.

    I am 100% against asset forfeiture in any form. That's the job of the IRS. We don't need a local police entity doing it too, completely arbitrarily.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Never said a thing about government stealing being OK (or not OK). Just said government stealing has nothing to do with RKBA - even when they steal your guns.

    stay safe.
    I protect me and my property myself. Just because someone is a gov't official does not mean that none are criminals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I protect me and my property myself. Just because someone is a gov't official does not mean that none are criminals.
    And just because someone is a government official does not mean they are a criminal.

    Just like not all cops are stupid or corrupt. Yes, some are, but not most.

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    Regular Member twoskinsonemanns's Avatar
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    This is a a comical video regarding the issue I enjoyed.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks
    "I support the ban on assault weapons" - Donald Trump

    We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission - Ayn Rand

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    And just because someone is a government official does not mean they are a criminalcorrupt.

    Just like not all cops are stupid or corruptcriminal. Yes, some are, but not most.
    Thwn again criminal and corrupt, where government employees are concerned are one in the same as far as terms go...check your state statutes.

    Anyway, what's not to like about placing a heavy burden on the state to recognize and respect liberty. Some present company excluded.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Oh [expletive deleted]!

    Seems all opf you have a hammer in your hand and see everything as a nail, and cannot accept the possibility that things other than nails might exist.

    If I were into hair pulling I would be bald. If I were into banging my head on a brick wall I'd have a ginormous callus on my forhead. Instead I wonder when all you Keyboard Kommandos will appear on the 6 O'Clock News while the talking heads tell me about some mentally impaired gunman who was shot down. Till that happens, or the news is full of reports of some crazed gunman who shot up X place and killed/wounded Y/Z number of people is hiding in the Three Acre Woods and every cop from three surrounding states has jined the search, I am just going to remind myself that you are all silly little children making big talk to scare away the boogeyman.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I protect me and my property myself. Just because someone is a gov't official does not mean that none are criminals.
    Um, street justice; really?

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    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I protect me and my property myself. Just because someone is a gov't official does not mean that none are criminals.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Oh [expletive deleted]!

    Seems all opf you have a hammer in your hand and see everything as a nail, and cannot accept the possibility that things other than nails might exist.

    If I were into hair pulling I would be bald. If I were into banging my head on a brick wall I'd have a ginormous callus on my forhead. Instead I wonder when all you Keyboard Kommandos will appear on the 6 O'Clock News while the talking heads tell me about some mentally impaired gunman who was shot down. Till that happens, or the news is full of reports of some crazed gunman who shot up X place and killed/wounded Y/Z number of people is hiding in the Three Acre Woods and every cop from three surrounding states has jined the search, I am just going to remind myself that you are all silly little children making big talk to scare away the boogeyman.

    stay safe.
    suddenly it's all becoming clearer. McBeth is actually the guy the PA State Cops are looking for ..????

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Civil forfeiture has become a sacred cash cow in some areas - a legal license to steal.

    The misuse use must stop!
    So, you wouldn't go so far as to say that the establishment is basically evil, would you? Here's a situation where you KNOW they realize they are using it as method of theft and do it anyway. Snidely Whiplash would even be appalled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    suddenly it's all becoming clearer. McBeth is actually the guy the PA State Cops are looking for ..????
    In PA? No. Not in PA. I never had a lick of problems in PA ... I travel there routinely.

    I like where they hid in the small molehills trying to get ya speeding !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    So, you wouldn't go so far as to say that the establishment is basically evil, would you? Here's a situation where you KNOW they realize they are using it as method of theft and do it anyway. Snidely Whiplash would even be appalled.
    Substantiation? That does exist:

    Cops In Texas Seize Millions By 'Policing for Profit'

    Policing for Profit: The Abuse of Civil Asset Forfeiture

    Inequitable Justice: How Federal "Equitable Sharing" Encourages Local Police and Prosecutors to Evade State Civil Forfeiture Law for Financial Gain

    The FAIR Act: New bill aims to reign in policing for profit

  24. #24
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Grapeshot

    Civil forfeiture has become a sacred cash cow in some areas - a legal license to steal.

    The misuse use must stop!
    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    So, you wouldn't go so far as to say that the establishment is basically evil, would you? Here's a situation where you KNOW they realize they are using it as method of theft and do it anyway. Snidely Whiplash would even be appalled.
    No I would not go nearly that far. Those that make up the "establishment" are as varied as they can be.....just like us.

    Some municipalities are much more egregious than others - I also do not see it as pervasive.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 10-30-2014 at 10:05 PM. Reason: spelling
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    This issue is just like any other "bad cop" scenario. The good cops have sacrificed their own reputation by allowing such abuse to go on unchallenged.

    Yes, we all know that the majority are good. But those few bad ones stain the reputation of the whole, and especially so when the good ones do nothing to stop it.

    They claim that this change will make it harder to do their jobs... well guess what, they should have thought of that when they were looking the other way all this time, and allowing these abuses to take place.

    This falls squarely under Blackstone's formulation, "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

    Of course, these days it seems that some prosecutors have reversed that formula and would rather ten innocents be punished than one guilty person go free.

    TFred

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