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Thread: NFA suppressor vs fake

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    NFA suppressor vs fake

    I found someone who is willing to sell me a TEC-9 and I wish to own one. I plan on getting a stock for it, however here is the question that I need answer. The person who is selling it says it comes with a fake suppressor that he created so he could hold it at the end. He planned on turning it into a carbine. If I were to be stopped by a LEO with the fake suppressor attached, would I be arrested for not having a stamp on it even though it serves no purpose?

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Would you, perchance, be interested in buying something way cooler?




    Of course, mine doesn't have the nifty kludged pointless muzzle device that will blow your left hand into a red mist.

    However, I'm sure that isn't an insurmountable problem that couldn't be remedied with the addition of an equal measure of old car parts, JB Weld, and stupidity.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seriona View Post
    I found someone who is willing to sell me a TEC-9 and I wish to own one. I plan on getting a stock for it, however here is the question that I need answer. The person who is selling it says it comes with a fake suppressor that he created so he could hold it at the end. He planned on turning it into a carbine. If I were to be stopped by a LEO with the fake suppressor attached, would I be arrested for not having a stamp on it even though it serves no purpose?
    Fake suppressors for guns like that are actually fairly common. Any cop that knows enough to know that suppressors require tax stamps would know how to tell it was a fake. That doesn't mean you have to roll over and let him search it, unless you feel it is the best thing for you to do at the time.

    That said, you'd better make sure this "homemade" suppressor doesn't lessen the sound AT ALL.
    Last edited by MAC702; 10-23-2014 at 01:01 AM. Reason: spelling
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    I put on loudeners ...

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    A "barrel extension" is just that. It will keep your hands out of the way when firing, and that is about it. If you put that stock on a TEC you will have created an SBR and that is felony time. To use the stock the weapon must have a barrel of 16 inches or more. If you add the "can" and weld/pin it to make the barrel longer, you should be good.

    some SBR info if you just want to use the stock
    https://washingtonarmscollectors.org...fles-legal-wa/
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    M16 GAU/Colt 610 the forerunner of the M4 had a long flash hider that looked like a suppressor if a person did not take a close look.



    IIRC mine had a longer and thicker flash hider than the one pictured. Not really sure why a normal M16 flash hider was not used.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 10-23-2014 at 04:19 PM.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    IIRC mine had a longer and thicker flash hider than the one pictured. Not really sure why a normal M16 flash hider was not used.
    The attachment on the end of a CAR-15/XM-177, etc, was more than a flash moderator; it actually reduced the report by several dB.

    It wasn't rebuildable though, and would eventually become clogged.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    The attachment on the end of a CAR-15/XM-177, etc, was more than a flash moderator; it actually reduced the report by several dB.

    It wasn't rebuildable though, and would eventually become clogged.
    It could be screwed off easily and then soaked in solvent. I never noticed it being quieter, but M16 were never loud. Just all had that identifiable ping report.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    It was never intended to quiet the firearm to less than M16 levels, it was only intended to make it as quiet as.
    Solvents are good, but they won't remove non-dissoluble particulates. If they did there would never be a need for bore brushes, only swabs or mops.

    The moderator was an excellent example of 'good enough'; it kept troops with short rifles from being targeted because of a louder report and since it only consisted of two major pieces (core and sleeve) it was pretty much a disposable item should it ever become too fouled to function effectively.


    The core itself in SolidWorks, I think.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 10-23-2014 at 06:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Fake suppressors for guns like that are actually fairly common. Any cop that knows enough to know that suppressors require tax stamps would know how to tell it was a fake. That doesn't mean you have to roll over and let him search it, unless you feel it is the best thing for you to do at the time.

    That said, you'd better make sure this "homemade" suppressor doesn't lessen the sound AT ALL.
    Good thing to know. We both wanted to turn the TEC-9 into its original purpose as a special forces weapon. But where I live, machine guns are illegal but I still wish to get as close as I can get it.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    That said, you'd better make sure this "homemade" suppressor doesn't lessen the sound AT ALL.
    According to the experts at the ATF a suppressor doesn't even have to lessen the sound, it merely has to share characteristics with other known examples. In the matter of SIG v the ATF, the ATF had ruled that because the “stabilizer brake” looked like a duck, it must be a duck even if it wasn't a duck. I.e. ATF ruled that because the stabilizer brake shared 3 of 6 common features of known silencers, the muzzle brake was a silencer. Even if it did not reduce the report of the firearm.

    The ATF never measured the sound reduction characteristics of the stabilizer break. They simply said it because it had 1expansion chambers, a 2ported inner tube and an 3end cap, it must be a silencer. What the other three characteristics are isn't known (at least by me.)

    The US District Court for the District of Columbia exposed the absurdity of F-Troop's rational and logic:
    "A mouse is not an elephant solely because it has three characteristics that are common to an elephant: a tale, grey skin, and four legs.
    A child's bike is not a motorcycle simply because it has three characteristics common to motorcycles: rubber tires, handle bars and a leather seat.
    And a Bud Light is not a single malt scotch just because it is frequently served in a glass containers, contains alcohol and is available for purchase at a tavern.
    To close with a firearms example, a hockey puck is not a rubber bullet just because it has rounded sides, is made from vulcanized rubber, and is capable of causing injury when launched high speeds."
    Also from Judge John Bates-
    "... imagine a device designed for the sole purpose of muffling all sound emitted by a gunshot, and that was 100 percent effective at doing so — in other words, the world’s greatest silencer. If this device relied on a novel or innovative design that did not contain many ‘physical characteristics’ that are ‘characteristics of known firearm silencers’ … the agency would apparently not classify it as a silencer — despite the fact that it eliminates all noise produced by a gunshot."
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 10-24-2014 at 07:43 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    According to the experts at the ATF a suppressor doesn't even have to lessen the sound, it merely has to share characteristics with other known examples. In the matter of SIG v the ATF, the ATF had ruled that because the “stabilizer brake” looked like a duck, it must be a duck even if it wasn't a duck. I.e. ATF ruled that because the stabilizer brake shared 3 of 6 common features of known silencers, the muzzle brake was a silencer. Even if it did not reduce the report of the firearm.

    The ATF never measured the sound reduction characteristics of the stabilizer break. They simply said it because it had 1expansion chambers, a 2ported inner tube and an 3end cap, it must be a silencer. What the other three characteristics are isn't known (at least by me.)

    The US District Court for the District of Columbia exposed the absurdity of F-Troop's rational and logic:

    Also from Judge John Bates-
    Those judge's quotes are great!
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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    M16 GAU/Colt 610 the forerunner of the M4 had a long flash hider that looked like a suppressor if a person did not take a close look.



    IIRC mine had a longer and thicker flash hider than the one pictured. Not really sure why a normal M16 flash hider was not used.
    I carried an XME-177 in SE Asia when I wore a younger mans clothes. That little thing on the end of the barrel slowed down that flash quite a bit.
    The empty ones are common on 11.5 in barrels. If you pin them or weld them on it makes an sbr legal length. Just screw it on and you are still an sbr.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I carried an XME-177 in SE Asia when I wore a younger mans clothes. That little thing on the end of the barrel slowed down that flash quite a bit.
    The empty ones are common on 11.5 in barrels. If you pin them or weld them on it makes an sbr legal length. Just screw it on and you are still an sbr.
    Just a quick clarification - it must be welded, high-temperature silver-soldered, or if pinned, must be blind pinned with the head of the pin welded over:

    https://www.atf.gov/files/publicatio...-chapter-2.pdf

    The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Apparently this cop's vast "training and experience" doesn't allow him to differentiate between a $15,000 H&K MP5 in 9mm and a sub$500 .22 carbine with a barrel extension.


    According to the ATF a silencer doesn't even have to lessen the sound, it merely has to 'share characteristics' of a silencer to be one. According to the ATF, the photo below is of a silencer.


    But this same thing by GemTech... isn't.


    The judges opinion lambasting the ATF is hilarious.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 01-20-2015 at 01:20 AM.

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