OC for ME
Regular Member
From the link posted in my initial post on this topic:
Unfortunate that the caller is known to FFC PD and remains in a position to make further calls of this nature.
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VCDL reports first SWATing incident
- Thread starter skidmark
- Start date
More details from a VCDL.org email Alert:
--------------------------------------
Last night Robert Dicken told 75+ VCDL members about his stop by, and interaction with, the Fairfax County Police Department (FCPD) after a person called 911 and made a false report that Robert had robbed a 7–11 convenience store.
In reality, Robert had gone into the 7-11 to purchased a few items, paid for them, and then left.
ROBERT DICKEN’S STORY
Here is a summary of the event that Robert sent me:
On 10/15/14 at about 5:30 pm, I stopped at a 7-11 for some coffee in the skyline area of Fairfax.
Like every other day when I'm off work, I had hopped on my motorcycle for a short ride . Being an open carry proponent, I didn't think twice about putting on my every-day-carry pistol.
After leaving the 7-11, I went to the Verizon store for some quick shopping. Both stores are within five miles of my home. Chores done, I decided to go for a nice ride around the block.
What's that Fairfax County officer looking at me like that for? Damn he's going to pull me over! Yep… Lights, boop boop. Sigh.
Now I'm thinking that I've got my pistol on me and I’m asking myself how I would feel if I were an officer pulling over someone who was armed? [PVC: That is called “empathy,” something that normal, law-abiding people have, but violent criminals lack.]
Ok, turn the bike off, straddle the bike, interlock your hands on your head, and be calm. [PVC: Doing these steps calmly and slowly probably helped send a clear signal to the SIX responding officers in FOUR patrol cars that Robert was not a threat.]
As the officer gets out of his car, three other cars show up.
Wow, what did I do?
I let the first officer know that I have a firearm on my side. He says, "I know.” I did not move an inch!
To my surprise not one of the at least six police officers have a weapon pointed at me. [PVC: Hats off to FCPD for their professional handling of this situation! Robert’s life was not unnecessarily endangered during the stop by the police pointing their guns at him.]
The officer walks up behind me and asks if he can take the weapon from my holster. “Yes, sir,” I replied.
"Do you have any other weapons on you, sir?”
“Yes, sir, a knife in my pocket.”
"Ok I'm going to hold onto that also.”
“Yes, sir. Why did you stop me?”
"I will get to that in a minute.” [PVC: Robert wisely decides to temporarily let the issue drop at this point.]
As I’m being frisked, I’m still not moving and am keeping my hands on my head.
"Sir, can I put my hands down now?,” I asked when the frisking was concluded.
“Yes, you can stand at ease.”
At this point I ask the officer what is going on.
“Well, we had a person call from 7-11 and they stated that a white guy on a motorcycle robbed the place.”
I laughed nervously and told the officer that I left a 7-11 30 minutes ago, but that I didn't rob the place! [PVC: This is where an attorney might advise the client to stop talking to the police for fear of saying something innocent that ends up getting misinterpreted. To do so properly, you must verbally indicate you are invoking the Fifth Amendment and stop talking. In this case it’s hard to argue with success, but one should be very, very cautious.]
I'm getting kind of angry now. I've heard of anti-gun people saying that they will call the police if they see an open carrier and make up some story to get the police to respond in a forceful manner.
Wow, I could have been killed!
Ten minutes later I'm on my way. With the police "checking the sanity of the caller.”
I put a call into the police station the following Monday and sent a email thanking FCPD for being very professional.
VCDL GETS INVOLVED
After learning of the event during a phone call from Robert, I filed a Freedom of Information Act request with Fairfax County and quickly got a copy of the 911 recording. The name and phone number of the person who called were redacted from the recording.
I also talked to a Lieutenant with the Fairfax County Police Department about the incident. During the conversation I emphasized that VCDL takes SWATTING against a gun owner extremely seriously, especially where false claims that the gun owner committed a violent crime could lead to the gun owner being seriously hurt or even killed by responding officers.
The Lieutenant said he shared VCDL's concerns about SWATTING and said that FCPD takes such things seriously and would prosecute someone who FCPD can show did it maliciously.
The problem, I was told, is that the particular person who made the call is familiar to FCPD, as he has made other false calls before. But he has never done them against a citizen, he said. (I don’t know who the previous false calls were against. Perhaps against some police officers?) FCPD is concerned that he has mental health issues, and, if so, they won’t be able to prove intent.
ZERO TOLERANCE FOR MALICE
When malicious intent is there, VCDL will encourage the police to prosecute the offender to the full extent of the law and we will encourage the victim to go after the offender civilly as well. It will be OUR turn to do some “swatting” of our own in court.
911 RECORDING
Here is a link to the 911 recording. Somebody with a loose screw? On drugs or alcohol? A malicious anti, as he firmly states at one point that Robert took all the cash from the register? Or just delusional?
From soundcloud.com: http://tinyurl.com/lso8nlt
--------------------------------------
Last night Robert Dicken told 75+ VCDL members about his stop by, and interaction with, the Fairfax County Police Department (FCPD) after a person called 911 and made a false report that Robert had robbed a 7–11 convenience store.
In reality, Robert had gone into the 7-11 to purchased a few items, paid for them, and then left.
ROBERT DICKEN’S STORY
Here is a summary of the event that Robert sent me:
On 10/15/14 at about 5:30 pm, I stopped at a 7-11 for some coffee in the skyline area of Fairfax.
Like every other day when I'm off work, I had hopped on my motorcycle for a short ride . Being an open carry proponent, I didn't think twice about putting on my every-day-carry pistol.
After leaving the 7-11, I went to the Verizon store for some quick shopping. Both stores are within five miles of my home. Chores done, I decided to go for a nice ride around the block.
What's that Fairfax County officer looking at me like that for? Damn he's going to pull me over! Yep… Lights, boop boop. Sigh.
Now I'm thinking that I've got my pistol on me and I’m asking myself how I would feel if I were an officer pulling over someone who was armed? [PVC: That is called “empathy,” something that normal, law-abiding people have, but violent criminals lack.]
Ok, turn the bike off, straddle the bike, interlock your hands on your head, and be calm. [PVC: Doing these steps calmly and slowly probably helped send a clear signal to the SIX responding officers in FOUR patrol cars that Robert was not a threat.]
As the officer gets out of his car, three other cars show up.
Wow, what did I do?
I let the first officer know that I have a firearm on my side. He says, "I know.” I did not move an inch!
To my surprise not one of the at least six police officers have a weapon pointed at me. [PVC: Hats off to FCPD for their professional handling of this situation! Robert’s life was not unnecessarily endangered during the stop by the police pointing their guns at him.]
The officer walks up behind me and asks if he can take the weapon from my holster. “Yes, sir,” I replied.
"Do you have any other weapons on you, sir?”
“Yes, sir, a knife in my pocket.”
"Ok I'm going to hold onto that also.”
“Yes, sir. Why did you stop me?”
"I will get to that in a minute.” [PVC: Robert wisely decides to temporarily let the issue drop at this point.]
As I’m being frisked, I’m still not moving and am keeping my hands on my head.
"Sir, can I put my hands down now?,” I asked when the frisking was concluded.
“Yes, you can stand at ease.”
At this point I ask the officer what is going on.
“Well, we had a person call from 7-11 and they stated that a white guy on a motorcycle robbed the place.”
I laughed nervously and told the officer that I left a 7-11 30 minutes ago, but that I didn't rob the place! [PVC: This is where an attorney might advise the client to stop talking to the police for fear of saying something innocent that ends up getting misinterpreted. To do so properly, you must verbally indicate you are invoking the Fifth Amendment and stop talking. In this case it’s hard to argue with success, but one should be very, very cautious.]
I'm getting kind of angry now. I've heard of anti-gun people saying that they will call the police if they see an open carrier and make up some story to get the police to respond in a forceful manner.
Wow, I could have been killed!
Ten minutes later I'm on my way. With the police "checking the sanity of the caller.”
I put a call into the police station the following Monday and sent a email thanking FCPD for being very professional.
VCDL GETS INVOLVED
After learning of the event during a phone call from Robert, I filed a Freedom of Information Act request with Fairfax County and quickly got a copy of the 911 recording. The name and phone number of the person who called were redacted from the recording.
I also talked to a Lieutenant with the Fairfax County Police Department about the incident. During the conversation I emphasized that VCDL takes SWATTING against a gun owner extremely seriously, especially where false claims that the gun owner committed a violent crime could lead to the gun owner being seriously hurt or even killed by responding officers.
The Lieutenant said he shared VCDL's concerns about SWATTING and said that FCPD takes such things seriously and would prosecute someone who FCPD can show did it maliciously.
The problem, I was told, is that the particular person who made the call is familiar to FCPD, as he has made other false calls before. But he has never done them against a citizen, he said. (I don’t know who the previous false calls were against. Perhaps against some police officers?) FCPD is concerned that he has mental health issues, and, if so, they won’t be able to prove intent.
ZERO TOLERANCE FOR MALICE
When malicious intent is there, VCDL will encourage the police to prosecute the offender to the full extent of the law and we will encourage the victim to go after the offender civilly as well. It will be OUR turn to do some “swatting” of our own in court.
911 RECORDING
Here is a link to the 911 recording. Somebody with a loose screw? On drugs or alcohol? A malicious anti, as he firmly states at one point that Robert took all the cash from the register? Or just delusional?
From soundcloud.com: http://tinyurl.com/lso8nlt
SouthernBoy
Regular Member
Based strictly upon the nearly incoherent ramblings of the blithering idiot on this 911 call, the Fairfax police were a bit aggressive and out of order in their stop of the "victim". Especially in light of the fact that they have received calls from this maggot in the past. At least they didn't cuff the victim, throw him to the ground, or shoot him.
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Maverick9
Regular Member
I do not find it believable that the FFPD did not go to the 7-11 first.
Think about it. Armed robbery, potentially perforated patrons (and/or clerk). I, for one, find their actions WAY over the top.
"The dispatch called the store and said nobody was robbed. Anyone, or three, feel like making a MB rider crap his pants?".
Sheesh.
Think about it. Armed robbery, potentially perforated patrons (and/or clerk). I, for one, find their actions WAY over the top.
"The dispatch called the store and said nobody was robbed. Anyone, or three, feel like making a MB rider crap his pants?".
Sheesh.
Marco
Regular Member
1+
I guess that passes for professional.
As we already know if the victim (OC'er) had been shot/killed it would have been ruled justifiable.... just ask the former eye doctor, who was shoot over a card game by FFPD.
Unless you can believe they are just not that smart to begin with.
You'd think at least one car would have went to the location to see if folks needed medical attention, or to confirm the allegations, ESPECAILLY SINCE THEY HAVE HISTORY WITH THE NUTBAG CALLER.
My guess is the caller is a informant for FFPD, hence no action against him/her will be taken.
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marshaul
Campaign Veteran
I felt like the dispatcher sort of got this, but didn't put enough emphasis on it mentally:
If a 7/11 gets robbed, the clerks report the robbery. If some random dude reports a 7/11 robbed, either two things are the case:
1. All the clerks are dead (or in the process of dying).
2. The random dude is lying.
Either way, how is a stop at 7/11 not first priority?
If a 7/11 gets robbed, the clerks report the robbery. If some random dude reports a 7/11 robbed, either two things are the case:
1. All the clerks are dead (or in the process of dying).
2. The random dude is lying.
Either way, how is a stop at 7/11 not first priority?
Because Adam-12 and CHiPS taught us that oe set of cops is sent to the crime scene and another set is sent to chase after the perp.
stay safe.
I'm not going to give my complete opinion....wouldn't matter if I did but I sure won't give the PD any brownie points.
What happened amounts to the same thing as some fool shouting fire in a crowded restaurant. Everyone runs out, the cops come and put everyone that ran out against the wall until they show a receipt paying for their meal.....and they don't do anything to the shouting fool.
What happened amounts to the same thing as some fool shouting fire in a crowded restaurant. Everyone runs out, the cops come and put everyone that ran out against the wall until they show a receipt paying for their meal.....and they don't do anything to the shouting fool.
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Maverick9
Regular Member
Their reaction would have been completely different if the person swatted had been (in their eyes) someone important.
a. They'd have started trying to ID the 911 caller not going down the road looking for guys on motorcycles. (actually, how daft is that?)
b. After the event they'd have ID'd the 911 caller and had a news conference and said in no uncertain terms, 'anyone who swats a judge, cop, city official, will be arrested and charged to the fullest extent of the law and all his possessions will be confiscated for us to buy tanks'.
But, no, it was an 'opportunity' for them to be macho and pull over anyone riding a motorcycle and maybe confiscate it for their department.
Priorities, guys, that's the game.
a. They'd have started trying to ID the 911 caller not going down the road looking for guys on motorcycles. (actually, how daft is that?)
b. After the event they'd have ID'd the 911 caller and had a news conference and said in no uncertain terms, 'anyone who swats a judge, cop, city official, will be arrested and charged to the fullest extent of the law and all his possessions will be confiscated for us to buy tanks'.
But, no, it was an 'opportunity' for them to be macho and pull over anyone riding a motorcycle and maybe confiscate it for their department.
Priorities, guys, that's the game.
SouthernBoy
Regular Member
Try coherent. Obviously caller information is readily available to the 911 operator so that is a huge help. But being lucid and coherent is the first measure I suspect the operator would use to weigh the validity of the call.
Primus
Regular Member
Lol
OC for ME
Regular Member
...too funny.
If I were Robert Dicken I'd file a complaint with the police on the caller. Would talk to town councilman & VA house rep and file charges and get the Commonwealth Atty off his/her ass and make clear that these actions will have harmful consequences. I wouldn't get mad, I'd want to get even with this jerk.
Glad you're amused Primus.
Maybe if the caller had reported a black man had just held up the 7-11 instead of an OC'er on a bike, they could have had a field day stopping suspects. That would have been funny as hell...Huh?
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Thundar
Regular Member
In the real world it is not always that easy. Imagine being in a 7-11 during a real armed robbery, then calling 911 to report it. Most citizens are not trained for this sort of thing. Fairfax PoPo seemed to act in a reasonable manner. They reached out to firearms owners after the incident.
Could they have done better? Of course, but it appears that the Fairfax PoPo are trying to learn from this. I would recommend that when we have reasonable actions by the police that we keep the criticism of their actions constructive. (General comment, not directed to my quote of SouthernBoy)
Primus
Regular Member
Race has what to do with this exactly?
And I was amused by his rant. Not the incident. Although the incident went pretty well.
Actually, speaking of amusing.... I find it amusing this is even considered a "swatting".
It was a mentally handicapped ( that is an assumption bases on the acknowledgment that the PD is familiar with him and mental capacity as well as the actual audio that calls this same capacity into question) that called in someone who had a gun and robbed a store. Based on his capacity he may have actually thought it was true. Maybe.
Also, a couple patrol guys responding to a call isn't a "swatting" in my mind. As noted, they didn't have guns drawn. Just a 5-10 minute investigatory stop.
Finally, the assumption that a cruiser couldn't have gone to the store AND cruisers go to the "suspect" is funny. There's a new fangled device called radios. One cruiser goes to store and interviews people/workers, other cruisers go get the guy..... Now not being present I can NOT say for certain that's what happened. But its pretty likely.
My humor is based on responding to and receiving "swatting" calls. They are usually much worse then "guy robbed store". We get many of those on a daily basis. The last swatting call I received a kid was screaming into my ear that he was holding his family hostage and was going to kill them all in 5 minutes. That would require a SWAT response.... Hence swatting..... A call "this guy robbed the store and left" doesn't usually get a SWAT response.... Hence not swatting....
But I'll leave you guys (this only applied to those that are which is certainly NOT everyone) to be outraged at the "swatting"
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
There is a difference between mentally challenged, and mentally disturbed. For the record I do not consider you mentally challenged.
Primus
Regular Member
Thank you brother. I appreciate you acknowledging my mental acuity and just general mind blowing intelligence for the record.
Now that was funny! :lol: