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Thread: By Golly, the Barney Fife Solution - I think it could work!

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    By Golly, the Barney Fife Solution - I think it could work!

    I was sitting here talking about the rampage in Stockton where a gang of thugs killed a hostage and shot up the city, when I blurted out:

    "We've been talking about disarming the police, eliminating the asset forfeiture without conviction law (license to steal), and removing the military vehicle upgrading that's been occurring, they really ought to just issue all LEOs two bullets"

    Suddenly, it occurred to me that this might, indeed, be a viable solution. If every cop is given a firearm which can only shoot two bullets (or three, whatever), then they'd be A LOT less likely to go Rambo on us. Still possessing enough deadly force to deal with, oh, what is it, 95% of armed confrontations being solved with 2-5 rounds, and allow self-protection, but not nearly enough to use the 'spray and pray' method of crime interdiction, it might start a trend of arms de-escalation.

    Now, of course cops could carry back up, they could carry extra bullets, they could get a shotgun out of the trunk, heck they could carry handgrenades. But the idea of having only 2-3 bullets is a reasonable and workable alternative to disarming them which both sides might be able to accept.

    Of course it will take a tragedy of epic proportions where cops kill innocent children by shooting them in the head or throwing a grenade into a baby's crib...oh wait, they've already done that...
    Last edited by Maverick9; 10-24-2014 at 10:43 AM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Before the proliferation of hi cap semi autos to the market most police carried six shot revolvers. They did there job, and as far as I can remember a lot less innocent casualties.

    The real solution is EVERYBODY is held responsible for their actions. Including police.

    After a few lose all they own, or go to prison the trend will reverse.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 10-24-2014 at 11:57 AM.
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Before the proliferation of hi cap semi autos to the market most police carried six shot revolvers. They did there job, and as far as I can remember a lot less innocent casualties.

    The real solution is EVERYBODY is held responsible for their actions. Including police.

    After a few lose all they own, or go to prison the trend will reverse.
    Eloquently put, and I agree to some degree, but that's not the solution. It has to come from the top, it has to be tied to the finances, there has to be disincentives to using a firing solution, and incentives to using deescalation.

    Even if it's so mundane as to institute a fine and a very uncomfortable investigation and mandatory transfer for anyone using firearms on the force (except for designated snipers, etc.), and a bonus for solving things by negotiation.

    Yes, like the idea of returning to 5-6 shot revolvers. Harder to quickly reload, less firepower less false bravado. A change in hiring practices and perhaps a ban on top officers being able to transition to political careers.

    Start at the top, work down, iow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Before the proliferation of hi cap semi autos to the market most police carried six shot revolvers. They did there job, and as far as I can remember a lot less innocent casualties.
    Didn't have the internet to spread the word seconds after it happen across the country.
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Didn't have the internet to spread the word seconds after it happen across the country.
    Yes, there's always been corruption, roadside justice, but that's not news. Do you have any thoughts on a solution to what's happening now.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Before the proliferation of hi cap semi autos to the market most police carried six shot revolvers. They did there job, and as far as I can remember a lot less innocent casualties.

    The real solution is EVERYBODY is held responsible for their actions. Including police.

    After a few lose all they own, or go to prison the trend will reverse.
    When thugs use only wheel guns then the cops will not be able to claim that they are being outgunned.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Yes, there's always been corruption, roadside justice, but that's not news. Do you have any thoughts on a solution to what's happening now.
    First off you have to have management that cares and transfers that care to the rank and file. Corrupt management brings the whole organization down.

    To get good management one needs honest elected officials that care about up holding the constitution.

    Once we get away from constitution we get away from the basis rights and responsibilities.

    Making individuals responsible for their own actions replacing your not responsible drugs, alcohol, my up bringing

    I am crazy cause me to do it.

    The government well solve all are problems and make things better mentality instead of I am responsible for myself and my actions.

    Doing away with the war on drugs, all firearm laws, with all the federal agencies not spelled out in the constitution BAFTE,FBI, NSP, NFS, BLM and many others.

    is a good start
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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Before the proliferation of hi cap semi autos to the market most police carried six shot revolvers. They did there job, and as far as I can remember a lot less innocent casualties.

    The real solution is EVERYBODY is held responsible for their actions. Including police.

    After a few lose all they own, or go to prison the trend will reverse.
    THIS

    +1

    Did I say +1? ... +100.
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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Police should not be armed with lethal force PERIOD. too many people being executed
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    When thugs use only wheel guns then the cops will not be able to claim that they are being outgunned.
    So you are saying that it's OK to send a $2Million cruise missle halfway around the world to take out two or three guys in a $5Thousand pickup truck?

    OK, that's hyperbole.

    Cops are a reactive force and IMHO have no business getting into a knock-down fire fight with criminals, except in rare cases. Hollywood bank robbery, maybe. Miami FBI shootout, no. Contain the criminals and get/keep the general public away from danger. How long was it until the Cardinal of Panama begged for mercy and agreed to give up Noriega if we would just shut off that awful music?

    Just this week shots were fired at cops responding to a 911 call about a "domestic situation". They closed down a major thoroughfare and several side streets, locked down many businesses that were in the "potential line of fire" and pretty much stood/sat around waiting for the guy with the gun to kill himself, kill someone else forcing them to feel the need to bum-rush the place, or give up. BG chose Door #3 after about 4 hours.

    As opposed to 33 (or was it 66?) cops in California shooting at a car that they knew contained a hostage, because someone decided they needed to "contain" the situation and "prevent further violence". 300 rounds later the hostage was dead after being hit 10 times (several hits considered fatal) and two of the three BGs were wounded.

    If our street really were a war zone like the cops and politicians claim, the battle would have been over long ago. And in case anybody wonders, the BGs would have been the losers.

    But the Barney Fife solution needs more than a limit of just one bullet that is kept in his shirt pocket until Sheriff Andy says it is OK to lock and load. First Barney needs to know everybody and most of their business and personal life. Second, people need to agree with Barney that whatever "it" is that needs to be nipped in the bud really does need nipping. Back when I was young (some time between the extinction of the dinosaurs and the Great Chicago Fire) cops walked their beat and did in fact know everybody and everybody's business. Maybe with the changes the world has gone through we can no longer get by with just beat cops, but we would be a lot better off if it were an "us" relationship instead of an "us cops vs everybody else" one.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    So you are saying that it's OK to send a $2Million cruise missle halfway around the world to take out two or three guys in a $5Thousand pickup truck?

    OK, that's hyperbole.

    ...
    Me thinks your age is showing.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    When thugs use only wheel guns then the cops will not be able to claim that they are being outgunned.
    Me and one bullet outguns the cops ... not quantity, its quality

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I was thinking, isn't that what England's police are unarmed and armed for? Only armed police are called out when lethal force is supposedly needed?
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Me and one bullet outguns the cops ... not quantity, its quality
    What are you going to do? Throw the bullet? I would say you "out bullet" them maybe. But ya need a gun to out gun someone.....
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    What are you going to do? Throw the bullet? I would say you "out bullet" them maybe. But ya need a gun to out gun someone.....
    I hold the casing with my teeth and hit the primer w/my tongue and use my lips as a barrel.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I hold the casing with my teeth and hit the primer w/my tongue and use my lips as a barrel.
    Cite.

    Show us a video. But do it with the pointy end in and primer out.

    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I hold the casing with my teeth and hit the primer w/my tongue and use my lips as a barrel.
    Thanks, just got Dr. Pepper in my nose. This is sigworthy...hahah
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Cite.

    Show us a video. But do it with the pointy end in and primer out.

    What am I? A twenty dollar *****? I don't know how to make my tongue do that.

    Lets get realistic here.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Cops are citizens too, and should think of themselves as citizens first and cops second (that "civilians" thing from cops irritates me) and as such, I have no issues with them being armed how and where the citizens they serve can be armed. No more and no less, with at least the same level of accountability and in many instances, moreso as they are an enforcement arm of gov't. The problem IMO is cops having a different set of rules as to what and where they carry. If cops weren't exempted from so many of the same firearm laws citizens must follow, we'd have constitutional carry nationally in a week (why yes, I am feeling a bit hyperbolic today).
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    Cops are citizens too, and should think of themselves as citizens first and cops second (that "civilians" thing from cops irritates me) and as such, I have no issues with them being armed how and where the citizens they serve can be armed. No more and no less, with at least the same level of accountability and in many instances, moreso as they are an enforcement arm of gov't. The problem IMO is cops having a different set of rules as to what and where they carry. If cops weren't exempted from so many of the same firearm laws citizens must follow, we'd have constitutional carry nationally in a week (why yes, I am feeling a bit hyperbolic today).
    I agree police are civilians. i have made a lot of LEO mad because i pointed that out to them. but as long as they are on government duty they should not be armed with lethal force. once they are not on government duty then the 2ndA applies. no government employee should have lethal force
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    but as long as they are on government duty they should not be armed with lethal force. once they are not on government duty then the 2ndA applies. no government employee should have lethal force
    I disagree with the above part. Employment does not suspend constituional rights. I do however absolutely object to the gov't claiming a monoply on the use of force and, as I said, civilian gov't employees being granted exemptions to 2A restrictions to which the citizens they police are subject.

    I specificy civilian employees as the military is obviously subject to an entirely different set of rules in UCMJ.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    I disagree with the above part. Employment does not suspend constituional rights. I do however absolutely object to the gov't claiming a monoply on the use of force and, as I said, civilian gov't employees being granted exemptions to 2A restrictions to which the citizens they police are subject.

    I specificy civilian employees as the military is obviously subject to an entirely different set of rules in UCMJ.
    I'll agree with that in part. there should be more restrictions on government entities. but that is where we separate. once you put on the power of government, you are the government, and there fore should be limited.
    that could be said part of what the second Amendment was about, the limiting of the government
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepdiver View Post
    Cops are citizens too, and should think of themselves as citizens first and cops second (that "civilians" thing from cops irritates me) and as such, I have no issues with them being armed how and where the citizens they serve can be armed. No more and no less, with at least the same level of accountability and in many instances, moreso as they are an enforcement arm of gov't. The problem IMO is cops having a different set of rules as to what and where they carry. If cops weren't exempted from so many of the same firearm laws citizens must follow, we'd have constitutional carry nationally in a week (why yes, I am feeling a bit hyperbolic today).
    I fear that you are forgetting that it is not just the law-abiding who are citizens. Understanding that blows your argument all to smithereens. Either that or you are saying that there ought to be restrictions in place. If so, I hope you are also saying that there needs to be action to enforce those restrictions on not just the easy targets but the very difficult ones too. (You know, the non law-abiding ones that seem to cause the most harm.)

    In this country we strip away some rights from some people, but once they attain citizenship it's difficult to take it away from them. That and most of the Constitution talks about "The People", not just "The Citizens". I strongly urge folks to go live for a while in a country where only some of the people are citizens and the rest have no rights or protections.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I fear that you are forgetting that it is not just the law-abiding who are citizens. Understanding that blows your argument all to smithereens. Either that or you are saying that there ought to be restrictions in place. If so, I hope you are also saying that there needs to be action to enforce those restrictions on not just the easy targets but the very difficult ones too. (You know, the non law-abiding ones that seem to cause the most harm.)

    In this country we strip away some rights from some people, but once they attain citizenship it's difficult to take it away from them. That and most of the Constitution talks about "The People", not just "The Citizens". I strongly urge folks to go live for a while in a country where only some of the people are citizens and the rest have no rights or protections.

    stay safe.
    Love engaging with you on the forum, Skidmark. You respectfully challenge and make me think.

    You are correct. When I wrote "citizens" I should have written LAC within the jurisdiction.

    I amend my comment to be that non-military LE should not be authorized to carry weapons or places that LAC of the jurisdiction cannot carry (as a practical matter, with limited exceptions to the places or events such as those requiring a security clearance -presidential protection comes to mind but then that can be a slippery slope). Whether non-citizens or felons, etc should have restrictions diffferent than LAC I think is a different discussion or at least much further into the weeds on this than I intended to venture.

    I await the next shredding...
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Cite.

    Show us a video. But do it with the pointy end in and primer out.

    NOOOOooooo!

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