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Concealed Carrying and its limits

cjv

Newbie
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
4
Location
Reston, VA
Hello All,

I am hoping to get some clarification...

Here's the scenario: I enjoy drinking at my house on the weekends but I also have a small dog that needs to go outside to the bathroom frequently. In northern VA having your own yard is pretty rare so anytime she needs to go out, I am going to be in the common area of our complex. If I had my own private yard I wouldn't feel the need to carry but since I am going through some sketchy wooded areas to let her relieve herself, I am much more comfortable concealed carrying. Is it legal for me to concealed carry if I am under the influence? Right now I leave my firearm at home because I am not going to risk it, but I would like to know if I have the option. Just so everyone knows: if I plan on drinking I never carry my gun, the question is, if I am drinking is it illegal to carry? I don't care about going out to bars and carrying... I am more concerned that if I have had some drinks at my house and I need to take my dog out, can I carry?

Appreciate any information you may have.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Welcome to OCDO - lots of good peole here.

Moving this to the Virginia sub-forum - state specific questions.
 
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homestar

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
79
Location
Ashburn, Va
§ 18.2-308.012. Prohibited conduct.

A. Any person permitted to carry a concealed handgun who is under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs while carrying such handgun in a public place is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. Conviction of any of the following offenses shall be prima facie evidence, subject to rebuttal, that the person is "under the influence" for purposes of this section: manslaughter in violation of § 18.2-36.1, maiming in violation of § 18.2-51.4, driving while intoxicated in violation of § 18.2-266, public intoxication in violation of § 18.2-388, or driving while intoxicated in violation of § 46.2-341.24. Upon such conviction that court shall revoke the person's permit for a concealed handgun and promptly notify the issuing circuit court. A person convicted of a violation of this subsection shall be ineligible to apply for a concealed handgun permit for a period of five years.

B. No person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. However, nothing in this subsection shall apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer.

This is spelled out in the statute above in the first sentence, but there isn't a specific definition of "under the influence." That leaves it unclear whether it means ANYTHING or a certain blood alcohol level. I'm not a lawyer but I think a lot of this would depend on the responding officer and (if it came to this) a judge or prosecutor's discretion. I know that's not a direct answer, but I tend to err on the side of caution myself. Others may be more educated on this subject.
 

cjv

Newbie
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
4
Location
Reston, VA
Perfect. Thank you so much for the information. I assumed that would be the case but thought I would double check. Sounds like I need to buy me some land!
 

homestar

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
79
Location
Ashburn, Va
Perfect. Thank you so much for the information. I assumed that would be the case but thought I would double check. Sounds like I need to buy me some land!

Buy me some too! In Loudoun County I could probably get a nice 2x2 foot patch... But a mighty kingdom it would be!
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Another welcome to OCDO. If you do not join VCDL right away at least sign up for the free VA ALERTS newsletter - www,vcdl.org

There being no legislated definition of "under the influence" for areas such as this, the preponderance of case law seems to hold that any discernable amount is "under the influence".

Discretion being the better part of valor you might look into a taser or pepper spray or a rape whistle.

stay safe.
 

The Truth

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
1,972
Location
Henrico
a rape whistle.
LOL'd hard! :lol:

@OP, just Open Carry, don't drink more than a beer an hour if you must drink and OC (a good go-to to stay under the legal limit, typically), don't leave the complex or drive - especially with your pistol, and you should still be compliant with the law. If you're going through a wooded area anyway, why conceal? OC is just so much easier...

I, too, follow the rule stated above: "If I'm drinking I'm unarmed. If I'm armed I'm sober."

At my house and especially in my house is a little different story. I'm not going to lock up my pistol just because I plan on having a couple beers.
 
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cjv

Newbie
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
4
Location
Reston, VA
Wow, is that a record? 4 hours being a member and already getting burned?

Thank you all for the information. Rape whistle has been ordered on amazon.
 

BlueSquid

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
112
Location
Chesapeake, VA
It's just that some of us know what goes on in those wooded trails at night...er...you know, from stories and such. I don't wanna talk about this anymore. Stop looking at me like that!
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
Sounds like I need to clarify my earlier post.

The comment about discretion was in regards to what usually happens after a self defense act, and should not be taken as saying one should not carry at all. But if you really expect trouble and cannot figure out how to be somewhere else, at least bring all your friends who have all their guns with them.

Large numbers of self defense incidents are resolved without a shot being fired, which means there would be no chance of running afoul of 18.2-308.012. You might find yourself dealing with a brandishing charge but if the situation was truely one of self defense my gut suggests the brandishee would see bringing the police into the matter as low on their list of things that are intelligent. OTOH, merely having a visible handgun holstered can cause some folks to become the most afraid they have ever been.:shocker::uhoh::D

So yes, if risk avoidance of legal problems is a higher priority than risk avoidance of criminal victimization then getting a taser or pepper spray or that rape whistle is the way to go.

BTW - did you order the plastic, the stainless steel, or the brass one? And did you know that heart/cold/humidity can effect the operation of whistles that have a pea in the barrel (like the Fox 40 that everybody touts http://www.amazon.com/Fox-40-Classic-Safety-Whistle/dp/B0002Q9D3C) ? Whistles like the Storm http://www.stormwhistles.com/ do not have that pea.

Here's some scientific test comparisons of non-pea whistles: http://briangreen.net/2011/03/safety-whistles-decibel-testing.html

stay safe.
 

ChristCrusader

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
199
Location
Virginia, US
... anytime she needs to go out, I am going to be in the common area of our complex...
If that means you may be within grounds that could be covered by rules and regs, you may want to check if there are any prohibitions against oc firearms. If the rules can be changed, you may wish to consider if you started oc, if they would end up prohibiting it.

Unfortunately, I think that there has been an HOA in NOVA that successfully (last i heard) passed rules prohibiting firearms on common property within their borders.

Our right to keep and bear uninfringed should be being enforced universally, public and private.
 

XD40sc

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
402
Location
NC
NC prohibits CC with any alcohol in your system.

There is no mention in the laws of any restriction for OC with alcohol in your system.

Mileage in your state may vary....
 

Douglas_Christian

New member
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
1
Location
23435
Any change in speech, manner, or demeanor qualifies as under the influence under VA code. Under the influence is synonymous with impaired. You may open carry while intoxicated without running afoul of VA18.2-308.

(You will still be arrested for drunk in public. Your gun will be held for safekeeping while you sit in jail and the state police will be notified regarding the circumstances that caused the local police to come into possession of your weapon.)
 
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Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Any change in speech, manner, or demeanor qualifies as under the influence under VA code. Under the influence is synonymous with impaired. You may open carry while intoxicated without running afoul of VA18.2-308.
Welcome to OCDO!

Consuming an adult beverage while OCing in public is still fraught with problems.
https://medvinlaw.com/virginia-drunk-in-public-intoxication-laws-penalties-defense-lawyer/

Would also think that a defensive use of a handgun while under the influence would be just a mite more difficult. We all make choices - hopefully the best ones.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Record, record, record, especially if you are drinking. It could very well save you some hassles in court if there is a claim you acted negligently just because you imbibed.
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
So one will be cited as "under the influence" by only an occifer familiar with ones usual speech, manner or demeanor?

If Officer Kupke has reason to believe that you are a) under the influence of alcohol and b) you have, are, or are about to commit a violation of any of the listed crimes, he can apply for a warrant to have your blood drawn and tested He will probably cite speech, manner, and demeanor as his RAS for securing the warrant. My money is on you sitting in a holding cell while he goes to see the magistrate, gets a cup of coffee and a donut, takes a bathroom break, checks his email and plays some Angry Birds as opposed to waiting in the back seat for him to do all that stuff.

stay safe.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
1. Welcome to OCDO.
2. Not burning but not being a fan of drinking and carrying, I 'll just refer you to Grapeshot and Skidmark.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
--snipped--
Unfortunately, I think that there has been an HOA in NOVA that successfully (last i heard) passed rules prohibiting firearms on common property within their borders.
Successfully, I seriously doubt. Do you have a cite?

A Home Owners Association (HOA) is by accepted definition a municipality in the state of Virginia, and as such is preempted from making rules/laws relative to guns by the Code of Virginia.
https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+15.2-915
 
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