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Thread: Ohio and Military CCW under 21.

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    Ohio and Military CCW under 21.

    Hello everyone,

    Please remove this post if it's in the wrong category. My name is Mike and I'm a Ohio National Guardsman. I'm also 19. In the past few weeks I've been in contact with my local senator and I'm still waiting to hear from my representative.
    The subject I've been discussing with them is the right for military service members under the age of 21 to CCW. My local senator agreed with my key points, those being that if I'm entrusted to fight in various countries with weapons of war, why cant I defend myself here in the states. He urged me to start a petition so any bill introduced could have some power behind it.
    It doesn't matter if you're an Ohio citizen or not, if you agree, please sign and share my petition. Thank you.

    Tinyurl.com/military-CCW

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    Compare and contrast the supervision a legally armed citizen suffers with the supervision a servicemember gets.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Compare and contrast the supervision a legally armed citizen suffers with the supervision a servicemember gets.
    Well considering I can't CCW at all and that while I'm on duty any weapon mishandling or unlawful engagements I make is all subject to UCMJ, I'd say there is pretty strict supervision. I spent 4 months learning weapon discipline. Civilians spend what, a weekend at a CCW course?

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    Yes. A nineteen year old service member is closely supervised while armed in the course of his duties, mitigating any immaturity issues. That mitigation does not exist in the real world, or at Karley's.

    Weapon discipline is not personal discipline.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 10-25-2014 at 06:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Yes. A nineteen year old service member is closely supervised while armed in the course of his duties, mitigating any immaturity issues. That mitigation does not exist in the real world, or at Karley's.

    Weapon discipline is not personal discipline.
    Between the lines (and the part I agree with Nightmare on): Concealed carrying while off duty and out of uniform, and especially off post, that supervision is gone. I'm not talking about punishment and consequences - that's the UCMJ's legal system after the fact. But the supervision while carrying off duty and off post is just simply not there.

    Do many younger military members possess the necessary skills, maturity, mindset, and discipline to carry responsibly? Sure. But how does one quantify that? And you know that senior NCOs, officers, and especially politicians will want you to quantify that. Age is a number. Sadly, one that we are regularly held back by. But it's still a quantifiable item through which an external group (politicians and leaders) can give a base idea of maturity and discipline.

    Looking back now, 11 years after I was discharged as a SGT, I can tell you that I was not responsible enough until several months after I was a Specialist - which, not coincidentally, was when I was 20 years old in Korea. I didn't have a privately-owned carry weapon, but hindsight an all that, I would have been a moron younger than that. I even remember thinking as a PFC and almost two years of service behind me, "What's the big deal with pointing an unloaded weapon at somebody? Also, why do I have the keep my damn finger off the trigger, Sergeant?"
    Last edited by jackrockblc; 10-25-2014 at 07:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Yes. A nineteen year old service member is closely supervised while armed in the course of his duties, mitigating any immaturity issues. That mitigation does not exist in the real world, or at Karley's.

    Weapon discipline is not personal discipline.
    So the minute I turn 21 I'll magically be given the extra maturity to conceal carry? I fail to see any logic there. The shear fact that the majority of you are expecting me to be some blundering kid because of my age is incredibly insulting.
    You're all acting like I run around pointing my shotgun at people going "Ha! Don't worry it's unloaded!". The 2 years of training I received just doesn't fly out the window the minute I take off my uniform.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jackrockblc View Post
    Between the lines (and the part I agree with Nightmare on): Concealed carrying while off duty and out of uniform, and especially off post, that supervision is gone. I'm not talking about punishment and consequences - that's the UCMJ's legal system after the fact. But the supervision while carrying off duty and off post is just simply not there.

    Do many younger military members possess the necessary skills, maturity, mindset, and discipline to carry responsibly? Sure. But how does one quantify that? And you know that senior NCOs, officers, and especially politicians will want you to quantify that. Age is a number. Sadly, one that we are regularly held back by. But it's still a quantifiable item through which an external group (politicians and leaders) can give a base idea of maturity and discipline.

    Looking back now, 11 years after I was discharged as a SGT, I can tell you that I was not responsible enough until several months after I was a Specialist - which, not coincidentally, was when I was 20 years old in Korea. I didn't have a privately-owned carry weapon, but hindsight an all that, I would have been a moron younger than that. I even remember thinking as a PFC and almost two years of service behind me, "What's the big deal with pointing an unloaded weapon at somebody? Also, why do I have the keep my damn finger off the trigger, Sergeant?"
    The same could be said for civilans couldn't it? After their CCW course where is the supervision? It isn't there.
    Age is a number of course, but plenty of other states allow military members under 21, and even without military service to CCW. It isn't anything new, its just getting the same enacted here.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11bMike View Post
    So the minute I turn 21 I'll magically be given the extra maturity to conceal carry? I fail to see any logic there. The shear fact that the majority of you are expecting me to be some blundering kid because of my age is incredibly insulting.
    You're all acting like I run around pointing my shotgun at people going "Ha! Don't worry it's unloaded!". The 2 years of training I received just doesn't fly out the window the minute I take off my uniform.
    wecome to the forum 11bmike,

    it is good to see young adults, such as yourself impassioned w/a cause de celebre. this is not designed to diminish your drive, but rather to provide insight...

    you state w/your superb military weapons traing, over and above JQPublic's scant training hours, you now possess the traing as well as the obvious maturity to go forth and carry concealed even thou you do not meet the law's legal age requirement.

    you seem to miss the small concept your military training is geared to protect against ememies, foreign and domestic, as determined by those in charge of you. yes, you are held accountable by UCMJ, as military members have discerned for years...ask lt calley about his display of obvious maturity as it applied to weapons control or the numerous military members shot accidently while standing watch practicing their quick draw skillls out of their hoster ~ again obvious examples of their use of obvious maturity.

    yes, i know, you're not those ppl, your different, ask you.

    but you have failed to explain why you wish to CC? just cuz you can cuz you have all this training so you can now prowl the streets to protect citizens from enemies, foreign and domestic ~ wait that's the role of homeland isnt it?

    finally, you do know this is an Open Carry forum where w/your comment saying you feel insulted by 'the majority of you' who think i'm a blundering kid...' shows all the membership a tremenous amount of your obvious maturity doesn't it. to be honest, not sure who should feel insulted by your last rant.

    ipse
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    Welcome to the forum !


    Now, I have no issues with a 19 yr old carrying.

    I guess its a good strategy to start with DoD members.

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    Ass-U-Me

    UCMJ is not supervision any more than state statutes are supervision. Your in loco parentis to whom you are immediately responsible is your supervision. I am an adult veteran ultimately responsible only to myself.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Hareuhal, where did you get lost in this thread if i might ask?

    the OP himself stated in his first post he is not olde enough to get his CCW!

    the OP himself stated in his third post he has 4 months of 'weapons' training...

    the OP himself stated in his sixth post he stated quote: The shear (sic) fact that the majority of you are expecting me to be some blundering kid because of my age is incredibly insulting. " unquote.

    my comment(s) centered on his obvious maturity which he showed in his post six where none of the majority said a thing about the poster being a "...blundering kid...' on an OPEN CARRY forum whining about his inability to get a their Concealed Carry permit because they are underage!!

    oh, by the way Hareuhal, where are the appropriate cites, as mentioned in the forum rules, to back up your claim(s), quote:
    In the state of Ohio, all military members can apply to get their concealed carry license, and if I remember correctly, any member who has left within the last 6 years, and be excluded from being required to take the 12 hour concealed carry course. The state of Ohio has determined that our military is more than enough to grant us a concealed carry license, yet you're going to argue that it isn't? Interesting. unquote.

    finally, Hareuhal, does the Ohio national guard, subordinated to the state not to any federal governmental 'reserve' component, meet Ohio's statutory exemption of training? therefore, please do not use Ohio national guard as it relates to a 'reserve' component as they are not equal.

    and your perception about UCMJ is not accurate

    ipse

    small addendum: out of the responses to the OP's initial post, i missed a single buckeye OC forum member step up to offer any, repeat any, type of guidance...and the one that did complained about others input and yet you failed to provide any substance to your post to the poster.
    Last edited by solus; 10-26-2014 at 09:28 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hareuhal View Post
    I think you're failing to realize something massive here: The OP cannot open carry in Ohio due to his age. However, if a law were enacted that enabled him to only concealed carry, he may choose that. Or maybe that same law lowers the age of handguns to 18 and he would choose to open carry - who knows.
    Actually, there is no law in Ohio preventing the OP from openly carrying a handgun at 18.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    Actually, there is no law in Ohio preventing the OP from openly carrying a handgun at 18.
    justashooter thanks for that insight as that was the one of my contentions about why the OP was seeking his conceal carry privilege card.

    oh, and there is no training involved is there

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 10-26-2014 at 11:01 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    Actually, there is no law in Ohio preventing the OP from openly carrying a handgun at 18.
    My goodness, there must be bodies lining the streets ...

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    hareuhal, one final clarification, which state senator or representative did the OP contact & where did the OP enlist the forum members aid so the good members of the ohio OC sub forum as well as the buckeye association could contact said legislative person(s) to show their support for the OP's cause?

    oh wait, either part of my statement above was ever mentioned was it...

    so what was the op's drive by purpose, eh hareuhal?

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    hareuhal, one final clarification, which state senator or representative did the OP contact & where did the OP enlist the forum members aid so the good members of the ohio OC sub forum as well as the buckeye association could contact said legislative person(s) to show their support for the OP's cause?

    oh wait, either part of my statement above was ever mentioned was it...

    so what was the op's drive by purpose, eh hareuhal?

    ipse
    Senator Burke. I was told by a representative from his office that Senator Burke and the representative both support me in my cause and agree with the idea that a service member who is trained to fight for his country should be able to defend himself. They gave me a email address that bypasses the 'contact online' fourm and encouraged me to create a petition and contact my House Representative, which I did and I'm still waiting to hear back from him.

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    Hareuhal, thank you for the support and for understanding what I'm attempting to do here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 11bMike View Post
    Senator Burke. I was told by a representative from his office that Senator Burke and the representative both support me in my cause and agree with the idea that a service member who is trained to fight for his country should be able to defend himself. ...
    What is sad is that they probably don't feel that other young adults should also qualify.

    State laws should be enacting firearms safety training in public schools.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11bMike View Post
    Senator Burke. I was told by a representative from his office that Senator Burke and the representative both support me in my cause and agree with the idea that a service member who is trained to fight for his country should be able to defend himself. They gave me a email address that bypasses the 'contact online' fourm and encouraged me to create a petition and contact my House Representative, which I did and I'm still waiting to hear back from him.
    do you think OP if you had provided that information initially, w/a request to also directly contact Senator Burke to show their support or assist with your cause celebre?

    additionally, i still find it quite amusing hareuhal only one buckeye forum member has CONTRIBUTED viable information which should assist the OP. Oh and it wasn't you...thanks justashooter.

    btw, to practice what i preach, email sent to Senator requesting their support and phone call to an aide asking for the Senator to personally initiate support this issue.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hareuhal View Post
    It's the whole obtaining one legally thing that proves to be a challenge in the state of Ohio.
    That is indeed the biggest hurdle - and although there are exceptions for law enforcement and military, the exceptions are incomplete - that is, I think there is an exception to allow them to purchase but no one is allowed to sell it to them - or vice versa, I can't recall and don't have the time to look it up.

    If that hurdle has been overcome, then there is no other obstacle. An 18 year old can OC whatever they legally own / possess as there is nothing in the ORC that makes it unlawful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    justashooter thanks for that insight as that was the one of my contentions about why the OP was seeking his conceal carry privilege card.

    oh, and there is no training involved is there
    You are welcome - and you are correct, no training is required in Ohio OC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hareuhal View Post
    Do you think that you could have simply asked him that in your initial post instead of derailing the discussion?

    I'd also like to know how I haven't provided any viable information? That's amusing. You weren't aware that military members could get their concealed carry without the class until I informed you.

    Either way, I'm done responding to you. Feeding trolls is bad.
    what information did you post, with cite, to assist the OP.

    Did i miss your affirmation you sent a note to Senator Burke supporting the OPs cause?

    you're right hareuhal, i am through feeding savants such as yourself.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hareuhal View Post
    I agree. However, on the slim chance that this goes anywhere, it is a step in the correct direction.
    Oh, yes, I definitely agree and wish this the best. It's kind of sad that we can't just use common sense with lawmakers but have to sneak in more and more rights a little at a time.
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