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Thread: Two more "starts" of Sons of Guns TV show arrested !

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    Two more "starts" of Sons of Guns TV show arrested !

    "Sons of Guns" stars Stephanie Hayden and Kris Ford were arrested Friday in Louisiana ... for allegedly hitting a 9-year-old boy with a belt so hard he bruised.

    Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2014/10/24/sons-o...#ixzz3HHriAZw5


    Warning: it looks like the girl is wearing a Halloween costume ... ah!

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    "Sons of Guns" stars Stephanie Hayden and Kris Ford were arrested Friday in Louisiana ... for allegedly hitting a 9-year-old boy with a belt so hard he bruised.

    Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2014/10/24/sons-o...#ixzz3HHriAZw5


    Warning: it looks like the girl is wearing a Halloween costume ... ah!
    I'm sorry, but if you are going to quote the story, actually quote the important details.

    Parish of Livingston officials tell us Kris abused Stephanie's son from another relationship last month ... by striking the kid on his lower buttocks area.

    Stephanie was also taken into custody ... because her son told cops she was present in the room. She's not being accused of hitting her kid.

    Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2014/10/24/sons-o...#ixzz3HI3PiE7K
    HE was arrested for hitting HER son with a belt. An act that use to be perfectly acceptable regarding the punishment of children but now is no longer acceptable because of bleeding heart government agents. SHE was arrested because HER son said she was in the room during the spanking. -_-
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

    There are two constants when dealing with liberals:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    I'm sorry, but if you are going to quote the story, actually quote the important details.



    HE was arrested for hitting HER son with a belt. An act that use to be perfectly acceptable regarding the punishment of children but now is no longer acceptable because of bleeding heart government agents. SHE was arrested because HER son said she was in the room during the spanking. -_-
    Soon everyone will be arrested for spanking .. your neighbor, your cousin, your 2nd cousin's roommate !

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Perhaps people just need to learn how to reprimand children without resorting to violence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Perhaps people just need to learn how to reprimand children without resorting to violence.
    Psychological torture? I like your style. People will complain about ANY discipline...

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    Jeeeeezzzzz... schools full of undisciplined disrespectful bratty kids making it difficult for teachers to do their jobs and we're arresting the parents who discipline properly. America, home of the brat.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Perhaps people just need to learn how to reprimand children without resorting to violence.
    Indeed. Without condoning criminal prosecution in this instance, it's not necessary to belt kids in the first place. Problem: solved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Indeed. Without condoning criminal prosecution in this instance, it's not necessary to belt kids in the first place. Problem: solved.
    Hmmmmm. I though he meant sarcasm. Whichever, if you don't have a belt, a switch will do.

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    Having spent about 15 years as an employee of a particular (and large) Texas Public Zoo (I mean School) District, I have to agree with you. Could write a book on the subject...

    Teachers have it lots tougher nowadays due to many more (and serious) discipline problems then there used to be, drugs and guns in the schools (yes, the "Drug Free School" banners at many schools are pure ignorance on the part of the Admin-- just ask the kids), gangs in the schools, interfering so-called "parents," and an Admin that never backs teachers up when there's trouble. They just get thrown to the wolves and another teacher is hired...and soon ALSO to be disillusioned when reality sinks in. No wonder there is such a HIGH turnover in "education."

    I miss TEACHING, but sure don't miss all that other crap teachers (unnecessarily) have to deal with. And although I was sad to get out of the "profession," my health (no more stress) was all the better for doing so.

    America has plenty of problems...Public Education is one of the major ones. Yes, it's solvable, but the "experts" -- usually nave & clueless Ph.Ds. -- think more MONEY is the main solution. Or maybe more "creative" ways of teaching, or maybe BETTER teachers.

    Not even close...
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Indeed, I have close friends that are grammer school teachers. I hear about it alot. Instead of reinforcing parents' right and responsibility to properly discipline their children, schools have been turned into "policing the parents".

    The government creates the problem by interfering with parental control and then sells its solution by inserting its own control.

    Btw- several of the teachers I know are pursuing other professions because... "you just cant teach anymore".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melissa View Post
    damn that's crazy. hitting a 9 year old with a belt
    Troll alert!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melissa View Post
    damn that's crazy. hitting a 9 year old with a belt
    Quote Originally Posted by Bernymac View Post
    Troll alert!
    I don't see unfurling the troll banner for that. There is considerable evidence that corporal punishment is counter productive.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I don't see unfurling the troll banner for that. There is considerable evidence that corporal punishment is counter productive.
    Despite the correlation of the decline of corporal punishment (acceptability) with societal/cultural performance? Prison population as metric or proxy, for example. Or income disparity.

    I disagree with my sibs that our father was abusive, as I consider his cultural traditions and the successes he made, of himself and of us, from that foundation.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    Having spent about 15 years as an employee of a particular (and large) Texas Public Zoo (I mean School) District, I have to agree with you. Could write a book on the subject...

    Teachers have it lots tougher nowadays due to many more (and serious) discipline problems then there used to be, drugs and guns in the schools (yes, the "Drug Free School" banners at many schools are pure ignorance on the part of the Admin-- just ask the kids), gangs in the schools, interfering so-called "parents," and an Admin that never backs teachers up when there's trouble. They just get thrown to the wolves and another teacher is hired...and soon ALSO to be disillusioned when reality sinks in. No wonder there is such a HIGH turnover in "education."

    I miss TEACHING, but sure don't miss all that other crap teachers (unnecessarily) have to deal with. And although I was sad to get out of the "profession," my health (no more stress) was all the better for doing so.

    America has plenty of problems...Public Education is one of the major ones. Yes, it's solvable, but the "experts" -- usually nave & clueless Ph.Ds. -- think more MONEY is the main solution. Or maybe more "creative" ways of teaching, or maybe BETTER teachers.

    Not even close...
    A someone who is married to a teacher, I couldn't agree with you more. Because I am concerned for her stress level and health, I wish she could find a new profession, but our wallets would take too much of a hit while she got back on her feet. However, you have summed it up nicely. Kudos to you and good luck in your new career.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I don't see unfurling the troll banner for that. There is considerable evidence that corporal punishment is counter productive.
    Counter productive to what? Raising children that mis-behave?

    There is considerable evidence that not using corporal punishment leads directly to disrespectful, selfish children. I guess it's a matter of what you would consider a properly disciplined child. Many these days think it's ok for children to back-talk their parents, or any adult for that matter. I don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    Counter productive to what? Raising children that mis-behave?

    There is considerable evidence that not using corporal punishment leads directly to disrespectful, selfish children. I guess it's a matter of what you would consider a properly disciplined child. Many these days think it's ok for children to back-talk their parents, or any adult for that matter. I don't.
    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Despite the correlation of the decline of corporal punishment (acceptability) with societal/cultural performance? Prison population as metric or proxy, for example. Or income disparity.
    Absolutely.

    Prison population is an abysmal "metric or proxy" for societal performance – especially when you watch crime rates decrease while prison population continues to increase apace. (But that's what happens when you imprison people for non-crimes.)

    Income disparity? The connection to corporal punishment is beyond tenuous. Inflation, income tax (not to mention sales tax, gas tax, etc...), a regulatory environment which favors and incentives large over small businesses (and which tends to result in reduced wages for those farther down the employment ladder) are far more direct and plausible causes.

    Finally, correlation does not imply causation. Worse, social statistics are nearly universally worthless.

    Anecdotes aren't worth much more, but I can share my experience: I was spanked occasionally as a child. I remember being spanked, but I don't remember a single misdeed attached to any of these instances of "remediation". On the other hand, I can recall specific memories of my parents showing me good behavior by example, and explaining morality to me in a simple, effective (i.e. not dependent on religion or superstition) manner.

    From this analysis I've concluded that corporal punishment is next to useless. It may result in an immediate and temporary cessation of annoying behavior, but it's virtually impossible to teach a person through violence.

    I suspect this strongly enough that I'm quite comfortable stating that any person who reacts in the intended fashion to corporal punishment is born to be subservient, and that subservience is therefore the only behavior corporal punishment can actually "teach" (reinforce, really). So, I might correlate the use of corporal punishment with the rise of statism in the 20th century.

    Of course absentee and apathetic parents are likely to raise their children poorly. But it's contrary to reason (and my experience) to assume that corporal punishment is the sine non qua of engaged, effective parenting.
    Last edited by marshaul; 10-28-2014 at 11:47 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    There is considerable evidence that not using corporal punishment leads directly to disrespectful, selfish children.
    Nonsense. Provide some.

    My argument is superior anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I don't see unfurling the troll banner for that. There is considerable evidence that corporal punishment is counter productive.
    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    Counter productive to what? Raising children that mis-behave?

    There is considerable evidence that not using corporal punishment leads directly to disrespectful, selfish children. I guess it's a matter of what you would consider a properly disciplined child. Many these days think it's ok for children to back-talk their parents, or any adult for that matter. I don't.
    Don't shoot the messenger. I raised my two with 50/50 results...and no I didn't say which method I favor or why.

    I think that outside the family influences have a greater impact. Being a good parent helps, being a lucky one does too.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    you may blame activist Dr. Benjamin Spock's child rearing philosophical BS tomes combined with the counterculture of the '60s for the current state of affairs with the social status of everyone watching your child rearing efforts.

    Further, the youngsters themselves know how to and do play the game w/child protective services/LE etc., and not thinking twice or about the consequences of throwing their caregivers under the moving bus when they feel slighted in any way.

    additionally, as has been proven in several of the child sexual abuse cases, memory implants into the child's mind by 'innocent' but over zealous investigators shows how some will pursue this to advance their careers.

    Educators are in the most precarious spot between the rock and the hard spot of mandatory reporting if the child accuses the parents of corporal punishment events. We all know youngsters who would benefit from a swat on the behind to get their attention, yet we fail to do so because society's watchdogs would pounce on us in a heartbeat based on their perception it is abuse.

    please do not construe my comments as advocating physical abuse from a parent in an emotional frenzy who is beating their child senseless or using using hot car track on a youngster.

    however, these are the stats the 'PhD' researcher(s) use in their studies for their empirical data to support their claims. unfortunately, like those who propagate anti vaccination or firearm or any other type of sensationalized rhetoric, the uneducated public believes and sheepishly follows believing the researcher's word as if it handed down from the Mount by charlton heston!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Don't shoot the messenger. I raised my two with 50/50 results...and no I didn't say which method I favor or why.

    I think that outside the family influences have a greater impact. Being a good parent helps, being a lucky one does too.
    Lol!!! Sidearm remains properly holstered.

    I wouldn't make the claim that corporal punishment is the only aspect of properly raised children. It's an important part of an overall strategy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Nonsense. Provide some.

    My argument is superior anyway.
    What evidence will you accept?

    What argument?

    Edit - Oh... I think you refer to your post #18. Sorry.
    Last edited by georg jetson; 10-28-2014 at 02:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    you may blame activist Dr. Benjamin Spock's child rearing philosophical BS tomes combined with the counterculture of the '60s for the current state of affairs with the social status of everyone watching your child rearing efforts.

    Further, the youngsters themselves know how to and do play the game w/child protective services/LE etc., and not thinking twice or about the consequences of throwing their caregivers under the moving bus when they feel slighted in any way.

    additionally, as has been proven in several of the child sexual abuse cases, memory implants into the child's mind by 'innocent' but over zealous investigators shows how some will pursue this to advance their careers.

    Educators are in the most precarious spot between the rock and the hard spot of mandatory reporting if the child accuses the parents of corporal punishment events. We all know youngsters who would benefit from a swat on the behind to get their attention, yet we fail to do so because society's watchdogs would pounce on us in a heartbeat based on their perception it is abuse.

    please do not construe my comments as advocating physical abuse from a parent in an emotional frenzy who is beating their child senseless or using using hot car track on a youngster.

    however, these are the stats the 'PhD' researcher(s) use in their studies for their empirical data to support their claims. unfortunately, like those who propagate anti vaccination or firearm or any other type of sensationalized rhetoric, the uneducated public believes and sheepishly follows believing the researcher's word as if it handed down from the Mount by charlton heston!

    ipse
    +1

    Never spank/hit a child out of anger. Emotions must be under control to effect proper discipline. It's this controlled manner of disciplining a child that makes them realize that there will be consequenses for their actions and not simply because they made someone angry.

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    scooter348,

    Aside from the stress level (as I tried to "behave" as per official pansy PC school district policy DESPITE how some kids MISbehaved -- with impunity) it got so bad I finally had to get out of teaching before someone got hurt, either me or a "student," as I ran a no-nonsense classroom and wouldn't tolerate misbehavior (or be cowed by threats). Didn't care if *I* got hurt (and yes, teachers get threats and are sometimes assaulted, or worse) -- and of course, likely fired -- but the kid might care if he/she (yes, some of the gangster girls were in your face, too) got hurt, or their sorry excuses for "parents" would care, and be all over you and the school district. So I got out, while I could on my own terms. As mentioned, teachers are on their own in the schools: MOST Admin just are there to "play the game" -- tread water, be "best buddies" with the kids, make NO waves in the great placid lake of mediocrity that is education in America nowadays -- and survive until they can get a nice retirement package. That's it.

    Anyway, for ALL concerned, it was time for me to leave. As mentioned, it was a bittersweet in that when I drove by schools afterwards I wished I could have stayed (and gone up through the "ranks" even into Admin, and eventually make a full career out of it) but at the same time, I felt lots of RELIEF driving by a school knowing that I didn't HAVE to go in to work there anymore!

    [Disclaimer: MOST of the kids in the Public Schools are pretty decent, but there are WAY too many troublemakers nowadays (zero tolerance policies for everything EXCEPT student misbehavior) than ruin it for everyone else, but the losers MUST be in school as per the law, even though while there, they cause grief for everyone (teachers, staff and other students). And the schools WANT them there so they get Federal $$ -- which they don't if the kid(s) are NOT there, so its the $$ that come first, not the kids' misbehavior.]

    As for my "new career," thanks...but it wasn't too long afterwards that I just decided to quit (actually, I just gave up and left) the rat-race completely so I retired early (@ 55)...and doing quite well now doing absolutely nothing (unless I want to). Income is way more then I need, and I can live very comfortably pretty much anywhere I want (except, sadly, VERY expensive Switzerland, which doesn't want riff-raff moving there). So I move about every 4 years now, mainly from one state to another (as my health continues to allow). Can't complain AT ALL!

    As for your wife, and as I've "counseled" teachers before if they aren't liking their jobs that much: They don't HAVE to get out of education...there are other options:

    -- Teaching at a different school where there's better management (even if you lose seniority when you request a transfer vs. the school district making you transfer and you keep your seniority).

    -- Teaching at a different grade level (many teachers find Middle School/Junior High kids to be the worst).

    -- Teaching in a different/better school district (if a city has more than one ISD).

    -- Teaching in a different state.*

    -- Teaching at a private, military or parochial school (less discipline problems, if any).

    ...so, your wife could still stay in education but just be elsewhere -- in a better/less stressful place/school.

    Or possibly in a different program within the SAME school: A high school Honors Calculus class was one of the best I ever had, as the "no-nonsense/we're here to learn/keep a 4.0 GPA/looking to their future" students were expecting to become doctors, engineers or some other serious high-income professional, and were no discipline problems whatsoever -- an oasis in a desert wasteland of dumbed-down (yet inflated grades) dysfunctional chaos most public schools are.

    Whatever, Good luck & best wishes to you & yours...


    * Research state public school systems BEFORE choosing one! For one example, avoid the Public Schools in Hawaii (a very heavily-leaning Democrat/Liberal/Welfare state) as they are consistently low-rated. MOST parents (who can afford to) do NOT send their kids to public school in HI, but instead seek out private/parochial schools (HI has many because of the sorry public schools there) -- such as the "elitist" Punahou School, where Obama went. Punahou tuition is almost like going to a university (presently $20,700/year, grades K-12) so private schools are expensive...but lots of kids go private/parochial due to the sorry public schools (low learning/expectation levels and cultural/racial issues, too). Consequently, families that move to Hawaii need to consider their "education budget" which is NEWS to most of them as they aren't aware of the HI Public School system's low ratings, so it could be a pretty HEFTY hit on their family budgets (and HI can be expensive in other ways, too, but that can be mitigated big-time if you're savvy). I know most parents DO research how good/bad the Public Schools are when they consider moving somewhere, but in HI it's a given you send your kids to a private school if you can afford to do so.
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 10-28-2014 at 04:05 PM.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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