View Poll Results: Which methods are acceptable (multiple allowed)

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13. You may not vote on this poll
  • Open Hand to backside only

    8 61.54%
  • Open Hand to bare backside

    6 46.15%
  • Belts, switches, paddles

    7 53.85%
  • Coat hangers, bullwhips

    0 0%
  • Backhand to face

    0 0%
  • Slap to face

    0 0%
  • Closed fist to body

    0 0%
  • Kick to body

    0 0%
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Thread: Poll: Corporal Punishment Options

  1. #1
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Poll: Corporal Punishment Options

    If you don't believe in hitting your kids, or if you think age/gender/size constraints should apply, that's OK, just post with free text.

    I'm a little surprised at the comments in a recent thread.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 10-29-2014 at 10:21 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    A free hand MAY be ok depending on age and severity of action and what other punishments have been attempted.

    But ANY object (just my opinion) is over the top. So any belt (had it used on me), kitchen appliances (had them thrown at me), "switch", branch, stick, shoe, spoon (my mother inlaws favorite tool).... Is too much.

    If your a kid and you can't get the point with a smack on the butt then why would you get it if I smash you with a stick repeatedly until your a bumbling mess?

    Side note: corporal punishment is a family. I think if you ask around, those that are in favor of a "a good beating" will have had them applied to them when they were children. So they assume "hey I turned out ok" so it must work for their kids. Very wrong.

    There have been many advances in child discipline. For example anyone else use the counting game and time out thing? I don't know how "new" it is, but I certainly never heard of it growing up nor any of my friends did either. So child discipline is like any other thing.

    Why be like a cave man and grunt while you beat them with club. Try acting a bit more civilized and use non aggressive means. Just saying...
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  3. #3
    Regular Member J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    Imo, a good sit down and swat on the butt, if done right, will only need to be used a couple times in a kid's life.

    If he is potentially putting himself in significant danger at disregard to the parent, or harming others are circumstances that come to mind.

    I am not against it, but in today's world I see physical punishment 95% of the time as a parenting FAILURE by the parents, not a good tool to teach.
    Last edited by J_dazzle23; 10-29-2014 at 12:02 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Are you looking for the legal answer, the current social groupthink consensus, or do you have a specific child in a specific situation in mind?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  5. #5
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_dazzle23 View Post
    Imo, a good sit down and swat on the butt, if done right, will only need to be used a couple times in a kid's life.

    If he is potentially putting himself in significant danger at disregard to the parent, or harming others are circumstances that come to mind.

    I am not against it, but in today's world I see physical punishment 95% of the time as a parenting FAILURE by the parents, not a good tool to teach.
    Well said. I agree
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    What is the age of this "child"? 1yo, 8yo, or 25 yo?

    By time mine could crawl and pull themselves upright at a table there was no need to remove breakable objects from the tables. A simple, fairly gentle hand slap with a "No" and a look of extreme unhappiness did the job.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    I'll say a couple things. I have a lot of sympathy for parents who have an 'unmanageable child'. They do exist.

    For all normal children who you -can- talk to, from the age of the time they will listen to you (2?) to the time they leave the house, I think the best you can do is 'timeouts' or 'restrictions'.

    I had one child who is now an adult, but I never had to hit her, or lay a hand on her in any way. She was a good kid. I'm glad I didn't, both because I was worried I would and I knew it would be teaching the child that physical violence is 'a' solution to behavior.

    So, if you must swat don't use humiliation - I'm against pants down stuff. If you swat on the behind, only use the hand to 'get attention' or 'snap to', and later, go mend the bridge and say you're sorry and you love them. Again, normal kids.

    Don't let things get out of hand, give attention, read to and play with your kids, treat them as 'little adults', ask their opinion, keep your promises. I think the 'ignoring and letting get out of hand' behavior can cause unmanageability, perhaps. But don't let them go wild and refuse to corral them (letting wayward kids run amok at a guest's house is wrong). Take them home. If they act up in a store take them home immediately. Immediacy of 'punishment' to 'bad or unacceptable behavior' is key. Next time say 'we're going in the store but any acting up and we go right home? Any questions?'

    As to hitting with things, I was hit with a lot of things, punched twice, pants down, done when in a rage and I was worried I'd pass that on to my kids. (acting out). It took me to age 34 or so to suddenly realize I had 'issues' when I found myself gritting my teeth and smacking the hell out of my cat on the rear. It was a WHOA moment. A cat's a dumb animal. But I am so glad I got a hold on myself with a pet, cured the issue by thoughtful self-talk, and then we had our first child. Whew!

    Big scary parents do not realize what it's like to be a little one and see your father menacingly stride down the hall, object in hand, in a fury.

    So think about your contribution to the problem (lack of love, compassion or attention, carrying a 'generational issue' (sins of the fathers?)) when a kid acts up. Think of clear solutions. Don't let it get out of hand. Talk, talk and talk some more.

    I know I am very, very lucky. I had a good kid, I never had to touch her, she turned out pretty OK. A lot of time nothing you do or don't do has any effect on the outcome. Lots of saintly people got the cr*p beat out of them, lots of maniacs just got 'twisted' by something, nature or nurture.

    Good thread, thanks guys.


    Never, ever hit your little children if you can help it, if they're normal is my opinion.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Are you looking for the legal answer, the current social groupthink consensus, or do you have a specific child in a specific situation in mind?

    stay safe.
    Well, Skid, have at it. I know what was done to me would have resulted in both parents having a criminal record in these times.

    No specific child, just stunned that people think kids deserve to be hit. There are a lot of platitudes out there, 'don't teach violence', 'spare the rod', 'don't spoil the child, either', 'don't let kids run amok at social gatherings', but do we really know 'what works'?

    My sister-in-law had a psychopathic child. I actually spent a little time playing with him when I was 40 and he was 17 (like 20 minutes one day) and he seemed normal. But later something happened and he threatened to kill them both in their sleep and burn the house down. They were actually in fear and terror of this kid. They had 3 other normal kids, two have PhDs, one is in grad school. No difference in their upbringing.

    I don't know what I'd have done, but if the kid threatened my wife or made death threats, institutionalize them?

    My other friend had a wild child and she had to go pick her up at the police station. She took the child to the airport and put her on a plane to go live on the opposite coast for a Summer to get her away from the 'gang' she had hooked up with. She's still a sociopath and calls her mother up now and then to cuss her out or ask for money or call her names. She's 38 now and wants to get pregnant (yikes!) and get some poor sap to marry her. She's been divorce 3x and was kicked out of Navy boot camp because she got pregnant (not sure how).

    I tell people now - 'don't get married, don't have kids..'. LOL

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Well, Skid, have at it. I know what was done to me would have resulted in both parents having a criminal record in these times.
    ....
    I tell people now - 'don't get married, don't have kids..'. LOL
    Since you have not paid the retainer fee, you are not going to get any expert [been qualified as an expert witness to the Va Supreme Court - twice!] opinion on any of the above. (If you do want my expert opinion, PM me.)

    I'll just agree that the cycle can be broken. Glad to hear you did so without extensive damage done.

    But for the record the two kids you describe would have fit right in with the rest of my caseload, so yes, I know in detail what dealing with them can be like. After investing lots of time and lots of money it is possible (but not guaranteed) that they will come out the other end as taxpaying citizens, although sometimes it takes a lifetime of monitoring to keep things that way.

    I do have a request - please stop using "psychopathic" like it was something bad. Some of my best friends (lawyers, used car salesmen, religious leaders) are psychopaths, and I score so high up on the Hare Psychopathy Checklist http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv...Checklist.html that some people are actually scared.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  10. #10
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I used psychopath as 'something bad'. Perhaps I should have said NPD, or BPD.

    I believe there are high functioning sociopaths and even benign sociopaths.


    (NPD - narcissistic personality disorder)
    (BPD - borderline personality disorder)

    In truth some NPDs seem to think they're 'all that' but they actually are high on the 'own worst enemy' scale. One I know whinged about his kids hating him, but when there came a window of opportunity to reconnect with them he wouldn't do it.

    Some BPDs are just so 'flaky' that they are unpredictable. To me the 'unpredictability index' is more frightening than most other traits. If someone is a high functioning psychopath (meaning they stay out of jail, don't kill people needlessly, but have little empathy or remorse, and can see 'consequences', which keeps them from being serial killer types), AND is fairly predictable (over time) then they're not that hard to be around and fairly safe.

    I don't mind a chat in PM, but no, I don't want an expert opinion, because my child is grown and I have no parental care situations or issues. Just me. But thanks!

  11. #11
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    What is the age of this "child"? 1yo, 8yo, or 25 yo?

    By time mine could crawl and pull themselves upright at a table there was no need to remove breakable objects from the tables. A simple, fairly gentle hand slap with a "No" and a look of extreme unhappiness did the job.
    hear hear...same technique you utilize with the members here...

    ipse
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  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    hear hear...same technique you utilize with the members here...

    ipse
    To some great degree, yes. It is beneficial to all to understand what is expected regardless of age. Having that understanding and meeting of minds, generally precludes further problems - then we can proceed with the task at hand.

    Early intervention is the key + fairness and consistency IMHO.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  13. #13
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    What is the age of this "child"? 1yo, 8yo, or 25 yo?

    By time mine could crawl and pull themselves upright at a table there was no need to remove breakable objects from the tables. A simple, fairly gentle hand slap with a "No" and a look of extreme unhappiness did the job.
    This^^^

    Sometimes if my little one (21 month old girl who thinks she's 4 years old) defies me or says no to a command, she'll get a little pop on the leg, if she's wearing pants it'll be a backhand. Just one. Not very hard at all, definitely not hard enough to leave a mark. Thigh or butt works.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    What is the age of this "child"? 1yo, 8yo, or 25 yo?

    By time mine could crawl and pull themselves upright at a table there was no need to remove breakable objects from the tables. A simple, fairly gentle hand slap with a "No" and a look of extreme unhappiness did the job.
    Bad daddy ! You're supposed to have a hour long seminar explaining why the behavior needs modification and then immediate placement on the no fly list and your standard labeling as a terrorist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    A free hand MAY be ok depending on age and severity of action and what other punishments have been attempted.

    But ANY object (just my opinion) is over the top. So any belt (had it used on me), kitchen appliances (had them thrown at me), "switch", branch, stick, shoe, spoon (my mother inlaws favorite tool).... Is too much.
    Great post!! It's the perfect "I think I know what I'm doing but really don't" scenario.

    First off, you need to consider why you're spanking the child. You're trying to cause enough pain to make them choose NOT to touch the stove without causing the damage that would come from such an experience. Striking with the hand is not a good idea. Compared to a belt or a switch, your hand has a lot more mass. You're more likely to cause damage with your hand. Causing "safe" pain is desired and the "sting " of a light, fast moving object is much safer and much more effective. Also, had you actually tried to strike a 2 yr old with a diaper on, you'd find that you'd hurt your hand before you caused the child much discomfort.

    You make a good point about throwing objects. Discipline should be done in a controlled and safe manner. A thrown object is the least controllable option and usually is motivated by anger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    If your a kid and you can't get the point with a smack on the butt then why would you get it if I smash you with a stick repeatedly until your a bumbling mess?
    As I've stated, the "smash" would be more likely with the hand. It's very difficult(impossible) to break a bone with a belt or a switch. It's very important to cause enough pain SAFELY.

    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Side note: corporal punishment is a family. I think if you ask around, those that are in favor of a "a good beating" will have had them applied to them when they were children. So they assume "hey I turned out ok" so it must work for their kids. Very wrong.

    There have been many advances in child discipline. For example anyone else use the counting game and time out thing? I don't know how "new" it is, but I certainly never heard of it growing up nor any of my friends did either. So child discipline is like any other thing.

    Why be like a cave man and grunt while you beat them with club. Try acting a bit more civilized and use non aggressive means. Just saying...
    As a response to your side note, it is true that we incorporate some things we experienced as a child into our discipline strategy. However, in my case I learned what my parents did many times was out of anger or in some cases unsafe. I chose to educate myself about these things when I became a parent and have extensive experience on the application of safe, proper, corporal punishment including teaching my children how to develop their strategies with their children as well.

    The advances you speak of in child discipline are nothing more than assigning the term "time out" to things like "go to your room" or "no tv for a week". The time-out is an important part of a proper discipline strategy and must be reinforced with safe corporal punishment.

    Your statement about "Try acting a bit more civilized and use non aggressive means" is typical to the un-thought-out argument about self defense. Proper child discipline is nothing new, it's just become a lost art.
    Last edited by georg jetson; 10-30-2014 at 03:44 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    This^^^

    Sometimes if my little one (21 month old girl who thinks she's 4 years old) defies me or says no to a command, she'll get a little pop on the leg, if she's wearing pants it'll be a backhand. Just one. Not very hard at all, definitely not hard enough to leave a mark. Thigh or butt works.
    The Truth, This IS the truth.

    No one knows a child better that its parent's. We can all agree that children will respond differently to different types of discpline, not just family to family, but even sibling to sibling. The parent most certainly should curtail their discipline strategy to that specific child. One size does not fit all.

    Keep in mind that "leaving a mark" is only important in the light of having a teacher or child services person see it. If used correctly, a belt or switch or paddle will usually leave a superficial mark. That would depend on the physiology of the child. It's unfortunate that we need to hide proper discipline from the ever prying eyes of the government, but such is the decay of a once free country. We've given the government the means to tel us how to raise our children and they will use said power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    SNIP

    Early intervention is the key + fairness and consistency IMHO.
    +1000!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    I'll say a couple things. I have a lot of sympathy for parents who have an 'unmanageable child'. They do exist.

    For all normal children who you -can- talk to, from the age of the time they will listen to you (2?) to the time they leave the house, I think the best you can do is 'timeouts' or 'restrictions'.

    I had one child who is now an adult, but I never had to hit her, or lay a hand on her in any way. She was a good kid. I'm glad I didn't, both because I was worried I would and I knew it would be teaching the child that physical violence is 'a' solution to behavior.

    So, if you must swat don't use humiliation - I'm against pants down stuff. If you swat on the behind, only use the hand to 'get attention' or 'snap to', and later, go mend the bridge and say you're sorry and you love them. Again, normal kids.

    Don't let things get out of hand, give attention, read to and play with your kids, treat them as 'little adults', ask their opinion, keep your promises. I think the 'ignoring and letting get out of hand' behavior can cause unmanageability, perhaps. But don't let them go wild and refuse to corral them (letting wayward kids run amok at a guest's house is wrong). Take them home. If they act up in a store take them home immediately. Immediacy of 'punishment' to 'bad or unacceptable behavior' is key. Next time say 'we're going in the store but any acting up and we go right home? Any questions?'

    As to hitting with things, I was hit with a lot of things, punched twice, pants down, done when in a rage and I was worried I'd pass that on to my kids. (acting out). It took me to age 34 or so to suddenly realize I had 'issues' when I found myself gritting my teeth and smacking the hell out of my cat on the rear. It was a WHOA moment. A cat's a dumb animal. But I am so glad I got a hold on myself with a pet, cured the issue by thoughtful self-talk, and then we had our first child. Whew!

    Big scary parents do not realize what it's like to be a little one and see your father menacingly stride down the hall, object in hand, in a fury.

    So think about your contribution to the problem (lack of love, compassion or attention, carrying a 'generational issue' (sins of the fathers?)) when a kid acts up. Think of clear solutions. Don't let it get out of hand. Talk, talk and talk some more.

    I know I am very, very lucky. I had a good kid, I never had to touch her, she turned out pretty OK. A lot of time nothing you do or don't do has any effect on the outcome. Lots of saintly people got the cr*p beat out of them, lots of maniacs just got 'twisted' by something, nature or nurture.

    Good thread, thanks guys.


    Never, ever hit your little children if you can help it, if they're normal is my opinion.
    How do you enforce the "time-out" or the "restriction" if little Jimmy ignores your command to take the "time-out" or "restriction"?

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_dazzle23 View Post
    Imo, a good sit down and swat on the butt, if done right, will only need to be used a couple times in a kid's life.

    If he is potentially putting himself in significant danger at disregard to the parent, or harming others are circumstances that come to mind.

    I am not against it, but in today's world I see physical punishment 95% of the time as a parenting FAILURE by the parents, not a good tool to teach.
    See, that's pretty much how I feel. If a kid hurts someone else a small amount of pain might be exactly the thing needed to make them empathize with their victim. And for this reason I certainly wouldn't prohibit (mild) corporal punishment.

    But I simply don't buy that the regular application of corporal punishment is a sine qua non of effective parenting in the vast majority of instances.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    How do you enforce the "time-out" or the "restriction" if little Jimmy ignores your command to take the "time-out" or "restriction"?
    You think hitting him will solve this? You obviously haven't raised some of the kids I grew up with.

    If you can restrain your kid to hit him, you can restrain him into time-out. If a kid ignores a restriction he can have the video game (or whatever) permanently removed.

    When I was a kid, if I didn't feel like obeying your restrictions, hitting me would only motivate me to go to greater extremes to overcome the restriction. I still feel like the kids who wouldn't respond as I would are weak-willed and subservient.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    I had one child who is now an adult, but I never had to hit her, or lay a hand on her in any way. She was a good kid. I'm glad I didn't, both because I was worried I would and I knew it would be teaching the child that physical violence is 'a' solution to behavior.
    But, how could you possibly enforce timeouts and restrictions without corporal punishment!?

  22. #22
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    99% of the time now that I've gotten the pre-emptive discipline out of the way, I simply ask my little girl, "Do you wanna get popped?" and she says, "No..." and does what I tell her to.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    99% of the time now that I've gotten the pre-emptive discipline out of the way, I simply ask my little girl, "Do you wanna get popped?" and she says, "No..." and does what I tell her to.
    So a threat of violence to coerce her to do stuff.... Where have I heard of this before?
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  24. #24
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    So a threat of violence to coerce her to do stuff.... Where have I heard of this before?
    You must not have a 2 year old...

    You must indoctrinate these kids early so that they fit the statists' fascist mold!
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  25. #25
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    So a threat of violence to coerce her to do stuff.... Where have I heard of this before?
    LOL.....nice try..... public state does not compare to private family.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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