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Thread: Got "Probable Cause"? One District Attorney's attempt to explain why "Yes"/"No"

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Got "Probable Cause"? One District Attorney's attempt to explain why "Yes"/"No"

    http://le.alcoda.org/publications/po..._Fall_2014.pdf

    He gives a rather comprehensive checklist of behaviors and "indicators" of things that add up to/add strength to an officer's determination that Probable Cause exists. Some of the items he discusses have been found to be unsupportable in some jurisdictions, but his "scorecard" system helps an officer build up his case for PC in spite of one or two items not being countable. And no, there is not a baseline score that has to be reached in order to say PC has been "reached". It's more of a reminder of stuff to add to the dogpile in case one element does not stand up to challenge.

    Sun Tzu (and just about everybody since) has advised us to know our enemy and his tactics.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    http://le.alcoda.org/publications/po..._Fall_2014.pdf

    He gives a rather comprehensive checklist of behaviors and "indicators" of things that add up to/add strength to an officer's determination that Probable Cause exists. Some of the items he discusses have been found to be unsupportable in some jurisdictions, but his "scorecard" system helps an officer build up his case for PC in spite of one or two items not being countable. And no, there is not a baseline score that has to be reached in order to say PC has been "reached". It's more of a reminder of stuff to add to the dogpile in case one element does not stand up to challenge.

    Sun Tzu (and just about everybody since) has advised us to know our enemy and his tactics.

    stay safe.
    Aren't you assuming a lot. Namely literacy and comprehension? I mean does a busy LEO have time to read, comprehend, remember and apply? You think he's sitting at home after shift making flash cards?

    Just wondering.

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    Guy disparages scientist in his first paragraph .... most lawyers want to have been scientists but were too stupid to achieve that goal.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    http://le.alcoda.org/publications/po..._Fall_2014.pdf

    He gives a rather comprehensive checklist of behaviors and "indicators" of things that add up to/add strength to an officer's determination that Probable Cause exists. Some of the items he discusses have been found to be unsupportable in some jurisdictions, but his "scorecard" system helps an officer build up his case for PC in spite of one or two items not being countable. And no, there is not a baseline score that has to be reached in order to say PC has been "reached". It's more of a reminder of stuff to add to the dogpile in case one element does not stand up to challenge.

    Sun Tzu (and just about everybody since) has advised us to know our enemy and his tactics.

    stay safe.
    Good read. Well laid out and explained with cites to case law.
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Aren't you assuming a lot. Namely literacy and comprehension? I mean does a busy LEO have time to read, comprehend, remember and apply? You think he's sitting at home after shift making flash cards?

    Just wondering.
    Sorry the obvious missed you. The checklist is for state prosecutors to go over with the cop as they prepare for testimony. And yes, cops can make notes that they can refer to in order to refresh their memory if they get flustered on how to respond to "And isn't it also true, Officer Krupke, that the defendant __?"

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Aren't you assuming a lot. Namely literacy and comprehension? I mean does a busy LEO have time to read, comprehend, remember and apply? You think he's sitting at home after shift making flash cards?

    Just wondering.
    If the cop is in doubt then he should leave it alone.

    The burden is on the state not the civilian.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Aren't you assuming a lot. Namely literacy and comprehension? I mean does a busy LEO have time to read, comprehend, remember and apply? You think he's sitting at home after shift making flash cards?
    Sounds to me like you're the one who's doing the assuming, such as a lack of literacy and comprehension, or an inability to comprehend, remember, and apply.

    FYI, continuing education is a large part of a law enforcement officer's routine. It's not, "Congrats on making it through the academy, Joey. Now do as I tells 'ya..."

    No.

    The Academy merely provides the framework on which LEOs build their collective knowledge over their careers. In most departments, this includes programmed studying, periodic tests, etc. In bad departments, it can be more haphazard.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Another reason to avoid California.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    The author blatantly lies in his second sentence.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Sounds to me like you're the one who's doing the assuming, such as a lack of literacy and comprehension, or an inability to comprehend, remember, and apply.

    FYI, continuing education is a large part of a law enforcement officer's routine. It's not, "Congrats on making it through the academy, Joey. Now do as I tells 'ya..."

    No.

    The Academy merely provides the framework on which LEOs build their collective knowledge over their careers. In most departments, this includes programmed studying, periodic tests, etc. In bad departments, it can be more haphazard.
    Don't forget yearly in service.... Usually mandated...
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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