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Thread: newbie to open carry!

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    newbie to open carry!

    Hello, I live in colorado springs and I have a couple questions. First of all, I have contacted El Paso County Sheriff's Department and the Colorado Springs Police department and they have both said yes to me carrying a hand gun a 18 as long as it is not hidden. Now of course I'm not able to purchase a handgun from an FFL dealer but I can from a private party. Now if I'm stopped will law enforcement ask me if the gun is in my name or will they be able to look it up? My hand gun was purchased a couple years back by my parparents so it may be in their name. Also does the hand gun have to be unloaded? I just want to get a feel for some of the rules. Once again thanks and I'm sorry if this a been asked before I just don't want to get in trouble with the law and not be able to become an officer in the feature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ps1996 View Post
    Hello, I live in colorado springs and I have a couple questions. First of all, I have contacted El Paso County Sheriff's Department and the Colorado Springs Police department and they have both said yes to me carrying a hand gun a 18 as long as it is not hidden. Now of course I'm not able to purchase a handgun from an FFL dealer but I can from a private party. Now if I'm stopped will law enforcement ask me if the gun is in my name or will they be able to look it up? My hand gun was purchased a couple years back by my parparents so it may be in their name. Also does the hand gun have to be unloaded? I just want to get a feel for some of the rules. Once again thanks and I'm sorry if this a been asked before I just don't want to get in trouble with the law and not be able to become an officer in the feature.
    A hearty welcome ot OCDO.

    Yes you can OC at 18 yo and w/o a permit.

    There is no registration of guns in your state, so there is no "in my name." You may be gifted a gun or borrow one and carry it - you are not required to own what you carry.

    There is no requirement that you carry unloaded. An unloaded handgun on your hip is just a fancy and expensive club. If your life and those of loved ones are worth protecting, carry loaded as it was designed to be.

    Stay out of Denver & Denver County when OCing - OC is not legal there.

    Recommend that you also carry a digital recorder turned on every time you go out - several available for about $30.00 w/download capacity.

    Sure that others will chime in soon with whatever cites are necessary; meanwhile look at our map pages - they are a visual Cliff Notes of information: http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=101
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Beware. The "gift" (if made while you are living in Colorado) has to be from an immediate family member (which it sounds like is true here), or you can run afoul of our almost universal background check law.

    And as a parenthetical, Denver and Denver County are one and the same; the combined governmental unit (that illegitimately defecates on your 2A right) is "the City and County of Denver."

    It can be tricky determining whether you are inside or outside its boundaries if you are in the Denver Metro region.

    This map is hard to read even when blown up, but presumably accurate as it comes straight from the City and Cesspit of Denver:

    http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/703...reets_2014.pdf

    This one gives an overview: http://www.zipmap.net/Colorado/Denver_County.htm and is zoomable. I notice in some cases the zip code boundary has a zig in it that seems illogical, and I suspect the superimposed line for the city and cesspit boundary actually follows the zip code boundary, so I don't completely trust this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    A hearty welcome ot OCDO.

    Yes you can OC at 18 yo and w/o a permit.

    There is no registration of guns in your state, so there is no "in my name." You may be gifted a gun or borrow one and carry it - you are not required to own what you carry.

    There is no requirement that you carry unloaded. An unloaded handgun on your hip is just a fancy and expensive club. If your life and those of loved ones are worth protecting, carry loaded as it was designed to be.

    Stay out of Denver & Denver County when OCing - OC is not legal there.

    Recommend that you also carry a digital recorder turned on every time you go out - several available for about $30.00 w/download capacity.

    Sure that others will chime in soon with whatever cites are necessary; meanwhile look at our map pages - they are a visual Cliff Notes of information: http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=101
    Thanks for the info I appreciate it!

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    Consider a CHP (Concealed Handgun Permit) when you can... you will be able to traverse Denver and County with that and some other restrictions on carry will loosen, although personally, open carry is preferred for me. I believe one has to be 21 [for a CHP]. Also, go to the range if you have not already. That is important. I recommend Cheyenne Mountain Shooting Complex just outside of Fort Carson. And welcome to the forum... I've found there is good advice here.


    Quote Originally Posted by ps1996 View Post
    Hello, I live in colorado springs and I have a couple questions. First of all, I have contacted El Paso County Sheriff's Department and the Colorado Springs Police department and they have both said yes to me carrying a hand gun a 18 as long as it is not hidden. Now of course I'm not able to purchase a handgun from an FFL dealer but I can from a private party. Now if I'm stopped will law enforcement ask me if the gun is in my name or will they be able to look it up? My hand gun was purchased a couple years back by my parparents so it may be in their name. Also does the hand gun have to be unloaded? I just want to get a feel for some of the rules. Once again thanks and I'm sorry if this a been asked before I just don't want to get in trouble with the law and not be able to become an officer in the feature.
    Last edited by JonStore; 11-04-2014 at 10:26 AM.
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    Also attached. colorado.pdf
    VR,

    Jon




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    I'm always impressed with the good people on OCDO. You fill in the gaps, clarify, and explain those things of which an Olde Phart like me doesn't have full knowledge.....and you do so with grace and aplomb.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonStore View Post
    Consider a CHP (Concealed Handgun Permit) when you can... you will be able to traverse Denver and County with that and some other restrictions on carry will loosen, although personally, open carry is preferred for me. I believe one has to be 21 [for a CHP]. Also, go to the range if you have not already. That is important. I recommend Cheyenne Mountain Shooting Complex just outside of Fort Carson. And welcome to the forum... I've found there is good advice here.
    Just one point. Colorado law has a caveat that a person passing through (and not living in Denver City/County) does not have to conceal if they are traveling through. Also, since your vehicle is deemed part of your residence, you don't need to change your carry style while driving. So if you really are just traversing Denver, you don't need a CHP to do so legally while open carrying in your car. However, I wouldn't suggest you get out of the car in downtown and walk around a bit while OC. I'm trying to find the wording and I'll link it when I do. I had a resource, but that's gone now.

    One of the points of the CO pre-emption is to allow people to transport firearms in their own vehicles without having to worry about the variety of laws in municipalities that are not consistent. So the law is clear that if your place of residence allows it and you are simply passing through on your way to another part of CO, you don't have to obey the local ordinances regarding firearms. One big example is Denver's ban on "assault weapons" that doesn't exist anywhere else in the state.

    CRS 18-12-105.6, part (2):

    (2) (a) Based on the findings specified in subsection (1) of this section, the general assembly concludes that the carrying of weapons in private automobiles or other private means of conveyance for hunting or for lawful protection of a person's or another's person or property while traveling into, through, or within, a municipal, county, or city and county jurisdiction, regardless of the number of times the person stops in a jurisdiction, is a matter of statewide concern and is not an offense.

    (b) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no municipality, county, or city and county shall have the authority to enact or enforce any ordinance or resolution that would restrict a person's ability to travel with a weapon in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance for hunting or for lawful protection of a person's or another's person or property while traveling into, through, or within, a municipal, county, or city and county jurisdiction, regardless of the number of times the person stops in a jurisdiction.
    I thought there was something in Denver's code, but I can't find it. Interestingly though, if you read Denver's muni-code, the way it's worded you can OC if you have a CHP in Denver. Wouldn't test it because that's not the intent, but the way it's worded there is a loophole.
    Last edited by mobiushky; 11-04-2014 at 12:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Just one point. Denver's law has a caveat that a person passing through (and not living in Denver City/County) does not have to conceal if they are traveling through. Also, since your vehicle is deemed part of your residence, you don't need to change your carry style while driving. So if you really are just traversing Denver, you don't need a CHP to do so legally while open carrying. However, I wouldn't suggest you get out of the car in downtown and walk around a bit while OC. I'm trying to find the wording and I'll link it when I do. I had a resource, but that's gone now.

    One of the points of the CO pre-emption is to allow people to transport firearms in their own vehicles without having to worry about the variety of laws in municipalities that are not consistent. So the law is clear that if your place of residence allows it and you are simply passing through on your way to another part of CO, you don't have to obey the local ordinances regarding firearms. One big example is Denver's ban on "assault weapons" that doesn't exist anywhere else in the state.
    I stand clarified. In practice, when going to Denver my weapon will have the shirt behind it (gun exposed) while I'm in my vehicle, and if in Denver and I leave the truck I will move the shirt to cover it because of the way they have written the system of laws.

    The only singular motivation for my obtaining a CHP is Denver city and County. Also, I find that it helps when I drop off/pick up my kid from school, I don't have that restriction either, except the gun has to stay in the vehicle locked when on school grounds. (drop off provision)
    Last edited by JonStore; 11-04-2014 at 12:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonStore View Post
    I stand clarified. In practice, when going to Denver my weapon will have the shirt behind it (gun exposed) while I'm in my vehicle, and if in Denver and I leave the truck I will move the shirt to cover it because of the way they have written the system of laws.

    The only singular motivation for my obtaining a CHP is Denver city and County. Also, I find that it helps when I drop off/pick up my kid from school, I don't have that restriction either, except the gun has to stay in the vehicle locked when on school grounds. (drop off provision)
    I changed my post because I can't find the Denver Muni-code I was thinking of and I don't have time to do the digging. But I do know that CO state pre-emption allows you to carry in your car anyway you see fit and no locals can affect that.

    I had my CHP when I lived in CO (still have the card) for the same reasons. Sometimes I was forced to travel to places I didn't want to go and where OC was not allowed... (mall, cough, cough). That and I was able to get my wife to take the class and get her permit while I did. She started carrying then and still does.

    ETA: Oh I forgot to say, my comment was not meant to discourage getting a CHP in CO. Rather to say that while the OP is still under 21, he doesn't have to leave the gun home if he is planning to drive through Denver. That's all.
    Last edited by mobiushky; 11-04-2014 at 12:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    I changed my post because I can't find the Denver Muni-code I was thinking of and I don't have time to do the digging. But I do know that CO state pre-emption allows you to carry in your car anyway you see fit and no locals can affect that.

    I had my CHP when I lived in CO (still have the card) for the same reasons. Sometimes I was forced to travel to places I didn't want to go and where OC was not allowed... (mall, cough, cough). That and I was able to get my wife to take the class and get her permit while I did. She started carrying then and still does.

    ETA: Oh I forgot to say, my comment was not meant to discourage getting a CHP in CO. Rather to say that while the OP is still under 21, he doesn't have to leave the gun home if he is planning to drive through Denver. That's all.
    I will help.

    Denver Municipal Code Sec. 38-117 (Although the entire Title 38 is a good read).

    Also Trinen v. City & County of Denver.

    Stay safe.
    Last edited by JonStore; 11-04-2014 at 12:42 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonStore View Post
    I will help.

    Denver Municipal Code Sec. 38-117 (Although the entire Title 38 is a good read).

    Also Trinen v. City & County of Denver.

    Stay safe.
    Yeah, I know that one. I was looking for something else.

    BTW, that 38-117 (f) is the reason I said that the wording is such that if you have a CHP you technically could OC in Denver

    (f) It shall not be an offense under 38-117(a) or 38-117(b) if:
    (1) The person, at the time of carrying the concealed weapon, holds a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, C.R.S., prior to its repeal, or, if the weapon involved was a handgun, holds a valid permit or a temporary emergency permit to carry a concealed handgun issued pursuant to state law and is otherwise carrying the handgun in conformance with any applicable state or local law; or
    Notice that it applies to (a) concealed carry OR (b) open carry and that the last line says: "and is otherwise carrying the handgun in conformance with any applicable state or local law". State law allows legal open carry. So openly carrying a handgun complies with a state law. Not the intent of that section, but they did word it that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Yeah, I know that one. I was looking for something else.

    BTW, that 38-117 (f) is the reason I said that the wording is such that if you have a CHP you technically could OC in Denver



    Notice that it applies to (a) concealed carry OR (b) open carry and that the last line says: "and is otherwise carrying the handgun in conformance with any applicable state or local law". State law allows legal open carry. So openly carrying a handgun complies with a state law. Not the intent of that section, but they did word it that way.
    I don't agree. I want to come back with better information and some relevant citation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonStore View Post
    I don't agree. I want to come back with better information and some relevant citation.
    By all means. I'm purely reading the wording of the law as written. I would not be surprised if there is case law to clarify, but I don't read case law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    I changed my post because I can't find the Denver Muni-code I was thinking of and I don't have time to do the digging. But I do know that CO state pre-emption allows you to carry in your car anyway you see fit and no locals can affect that.

    I had my CHP when I lived in CO (still have the card) for the same reasons. Sometimes I was forced to travel to places I didn't want to go and where OC was not allowed... (mall, cough, cough). That and I was able to get my wife to take the class and get her permit while I did. She started carrying then and still does.

    ETA: Oh I forgot to say, my comment was not meant to discourage getting a CHP in CO. Rather to say that while the OP is still under 21, he doesn't have to leave the gun home if he is planning to drive through Denver. That's all.
    Thanks! I've looked through a lot of different options on getting a CHP and I may or may not have an IDea, lol please be kind if it sounds completely dumb. I saw that Indiana issues CHP for 18+ for non residents and Colorado acknowledges it.... Idk the only other way I heard it that the sheriff may be able to issue one but I'm not in any emergency danger as they put it and it would be a temporary CHP for 90 days

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    Quote Originally Posted by ps1996 View Post
    Thanks! I've looked through a lot of different options on getting a CHP and I may or may not have an IDea, lol please be kind if it sounds completely dumb. I saw that Indiana issues CHP for 18+ for non residents and Colorado acknowledges it.... Idk the only other way I heard it that the sheriff may be able to issue one but I'm not in any emergency danger as they put it and it would be a temporary CHP for 90 days
    Cites for both of these please - I am unaware of the conditions you describe.
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    Colorado does not recognize permits issued by other states, to people who don't reside in that state. Even if it's a state we have reciprocity with.

    This is why people visiting the City and Cesspit of Denver from states Colorado doesn't recognize are completely screwed vis-a-vis 2A. Denver forbids open carry and the visitor cannot obtain a concealed handgun permit (by any name) that Colorado will recognize.

    This is unlikely to change soon, as it appears we will probably be stuck with Hickenlooper in the Governor's Mansion for the next four years. (But at least we got the state Senate, so new bad bills will have a much harder time getting through.)
    Last edited by SteveInCO; 11-05-2014 at 09:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Cites for both of these please - I am unaware of the conditions you describe.

    C.R.S. 18-12-209 (2014) Would permit an emergency application for an applicant 18 years of age or older. This section waives the age and competence requirement.

    Good luck with that, I am not optimistic.


    C.R.S. 18-12-213 (2014) For reciprocity to apply you must be 21 years old, even if other states permit 18 or older. Also... if you are a resident of our good state, you must apply here.

    There are your cites with interpretations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonStore View Post
    C.R.S. 18-12-209 (2014) Would permit an emergency application for an applicant 18 years of age or older. This section waives the age and competence requirement.

    Good luck with that, I am not optimistic.


    C.R.S. 18-12-213 (2014) For reciprocity to apply you must be 21 years old, even if other states permit 18 or older. Also... if you are a resident of our good state, you must apply here.

    There are your cites with interpretations.
    I'm not optimistic either, and what blows me away is that I have read in a couple places that there are 18 year olds in New York, yes I said NEW YORK that have gave them a CHP! I don't know it doesn't matter and I don't want to turn this into a concealed carry form but I'm going to deal with what I can and look at the bright side that I don't live in Denver and I can exercise my 2A right where I live. Thanks again everyone for all the feed back I didn't think I would have gotten much but I did

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    One more question lol as I forgot to mention at first. Now I know that when on my property I am able to have my firearm concealed, now if Im at a family members house does that still apply?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ps1996 View Post
    One more question lol as I forgot to mention at first. Now I know that when on my property I am able to have my firearm concealed, now if Im at a family members house does that still apply?
    C.R.S. 18-12-105 (2014)


    ...(2) It shall not be an offense if the defendant was:

    (a) A person in his or her own dwelling or place of business or on property owned or under his or her control at the time of the act of carrying; or

    (b) A person in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance who carries a weapon for lawful protection of such person's or another's person or property while traveling; or



    This is tricky.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonStore View Post
    C.R.S. 18-12-105 (2014)


    ...(2) It shall not be an offense if the defendant was:

    (a) A person in his or her own dwelling or place of business or on property owned or under his or her control at the time of the act of carrying; or

    (b) A person in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance who carries a weapon for lawful protection of such person's or another's person or property while traveling; or



    This is tricky.
    Yes this is unfortunately... hmm

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    Quote Originally Posted by ps1996 View Post
    Yes this is unfortunately... hmm
    You're on private property. So it's up to the property owner to give or deny permission.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    You're on private property. So it's up to the property owner to give or deny permission.
    Respectfully, is that the way the statute is worded vis-a-vis concealed weapons, or did you add that?
    Last edited by JonStore; 11-05-2014 at 07:33 PM.
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