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Thread: Is handgun 'open carry' safer for me than 'concealed carry'?

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    Is handgun 'open carry' safer for me than 'concealed carry'?

    I think so. Some reasons (for debate of course) are:

    Enables carrying a handgun:

    - With a frame size that fits the hand better than a tiny CC gun.
    - Chambered for a more effective (larger) load than a tiny CC gun.
    - With more shot accuracy than a CC gun.
    - That is more controllable when drawing. Eliminates fumbling with a concealed holster - in the wasteband, pocket, etc.

    I'm in Texas now and can't legally 'open carry' unless on private property that allows it, but I grew up in Oklahoma (long time ago)
    and never had a problem carrying a gun in a holster in plain site.

    What do you think?

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    I think my CCW is not tiny and carries 10+1 of .40 EFMJ. The .45 version is hardly larger.

    Wisconsin is a traditional open carry state where the benefit of legal concealment is to remove the anxiety of inadvertently covering as concealing.
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    I also carry concealed - XD40 full size, Taurus PT111 9mm, Bersa 380CC, but when practicing drawing, it's much easier for me to draw from an outside holster, especially the XD. I think it would be nice to choose either one legally, eh?

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    ..and if I could legally 'open carry' I would only choose venues where it would NOT freak out the public. Freaking out the public or startling an LEO is not cool!
    Last edited by papabling; 11-04-2014 at 06:20 PM.

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    Do you have any handling or control problems when firing a 'small' .45? Just curious. I had a PM40 (nice) but didn't like the recoil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I think my CCW is not tiny and carries 10+1 of .40 EFMJ. The .45 version is hardly larger.

    Wisconsin is a traditional open carry state where the benefit of legal concealment is to remove the anxiety of inadvertently covering as concealing.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papabling View Post
    ..and if I could legally 'open carry' I would only choose venues where it would NOT freak out the public. Freaking out the public or startling an LEO is not cool!
    I prefer to OC in places that are LEGAL. I have no control over other people's emotions, nor are they any of my concern. The safety of my family is my concern.
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    Quote Originally Posted by papabling View Post
    ..and if I could legally 'open carry' I would only choose venues where it would NOT freak out the public. Freaking out the public or startling an LEO is not cool!
    LEO'S and public should not be freaked out by lawful and constitutional, as well as normal behavior.

    Self defense is all of these. In whatever flavor you deem necessary.

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    My CCW is the .40 H&K USPcompact.

    I fired a box every Friday from 1996 when I got it until I left South Carolina. My CCW instructor instructed to keep every target signed and dated as evidence of due diligence. I do not recall ever missing the paper, at short ranges when I first started shooting, to be sure. I also shot SA1911A1 .45, my OCW today, and a 9 mm Interarms Mauser Luger. My Luger is easily my favorite, but impractical.
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    Quote Originally Posted by papabling View Post
    I think so. Some reasons (for debate of course) are:

    Enables carrying a handgun:

    - With a frame size that fits the hand better than a tiny CC gun.
    - Chambered for a more effective (larger) load than a tiny CC gun.
    - With more shot accuracy than a CC gun.
    - That is more controllable when drawing. Eliminates fumbling with a concealed holster - in the wasteband, pocket, etc.

    I'm in Texas now and can't legally 'open carry' unless on private property that allows it, but I grew up in Oklahoma (long time ago)
    and never had a problem carrying a gun in a holster in plain site.

    What do you think?
    From what I understand you can legally open carry a antique firearm(cap and ball pistol).
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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by papabling View Post
    snipped
    but I grew up in Oklahoma (long time ago)
    and never had a problem carrying a gun in a holster in plain site.

    What do you think?
    Interesting to note,,, That Oklahoma only started allowing Open Carry with a cpl
    starting only about a year ago...
    Before that ,, for many years they only allowed Concealed Carry with a cpl! No OC!!
    I dont know how may years that goes back to...
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    first the polite conversation ~ welcome to the forum...

    Now what exactly is your question, since you start with a headline of OC vice CC then get immediately into the Texas mantra of woe is me i can't carry OC...(which if you can't OC then the subject matter is a dead end as it logically means you only CC in the Lone Star state!)

    if it is the former, i am confused as to your listed rational about firearm size having any bearing whatsoever on carry methodology, especially since I personally only carry one firearm (full size) and if the outer garment falls over the holstered firearm, i have found the firearm still fits into my hand exactly the same as if the outer garment wasn't over holstered firearm?

    and please oh please, do not hesitate nor forget to mention faster draw times from OC ~ sigh.

    if it is the latter subject you wish to promote, that horse has been beat to death

    ipse

    oh again welcome...
    Last edited by solus; 11-05-2014 at 06:44 AM.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papabling View Post
    ..and if I could legally 'open carry' I would only choose venues where it would NOT freak out the public. Freaking out the public or startling an LEO is not cool!
    Hi! And welcome to OCDO, a site devoted to the normalization of the safe open carry of handguns.

    Having done my charm school bit I can now ask you - just what part of "the normalization of the safe open carry of handguns" do you not understand?

    None of us here go about trying to freak out the public or startle cops. Rather, we seek to demonstrate that the knee-jerk reaction of "Gun! Bad! We're all gonna die!" is just that - an irrational knee-jerk reaction that has no basis in reality. The plan is that as people, over time, see handguns safely open carried they will begin to question, and then reject, their previously-held irrational knee-jerk response of fear at the mere sight of a handgun being carried by someone who is not obviously a cop.

    On a personal note: I find it much more comfortable, and easier on my wallet, to dress with my gun than I do trying to dress around my gun.

    Once again, welcome to OCDO, a site devoted to the normalization of the safe open carry of handguns.

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    first the polite conversation ~ welcome to the forum...

    Thanks!

    Now what exactly is your question, since you start with a headline of OC vice CC then get immediately into the Texas mantra of woe is me i can't carry OC...(which if you can't OC then the subject matter is a dead end as it logically means you only CC in the Lone Star state!)

    Current Texas law only allows conceal carry with a license, but open carry legislation is coming soon and I would surely consider favoring that.

    The reason for my post is to hopefully generate some intelligent dialog related to the open carry of handguns, as compared to concealed carry (safety, comfort, efficiency, etc.). I've seen a few accidental shots fired by folks (one was a firearms instructor) because of an apparent garment hang up.

    if it is the former, i am confused as to your listed rational about firearm size having any bearing whatsoever on carry methodology, especially since I personally only carry one firearm (full size) and if the outer garment falls over the holstered firearm, i have found the firearm still fits into my hand exactly the same as if the outer garment wasn't over holstered firearm?

    In Texas, printing is illegal and could potentially result in your CHL suspended or revoked. I haven't been able to comfortably carry the larger handguns concealed, and possibly printing. I have purchased 5 or 6 different styles of holsters and none of them work good with the larger size handgun.

    and please oh please, do not hesitate nor forget to mention faster draw times from OC ~ sigh.

    if it is the latter subject you wish to promote, that horse has been beat to death

    ipse

    oh again welcome...
    Thanks again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Hi! And welcome to OCDO, a site devoted to the normalization of the safe open carry of handguns.

    Having done my charm school bit I can now ask you - just what part of "the normalization of the safe open carry of handguns" do you not understand?

    None of us here go about trying to freak out the public or startle cops. Rather, we seek to demonstrate that the knee-jerk reaction of "Gun! Bad! We're all gonna die!" is just that - an irrational knee-jerk reaction that has no basis in reality. The plan is that as people, over time, see handguns safely open carried they will begin to question, and then reject, their previously-held irrational knee-jerk response of fear at the mere sight of a handgun being carried by someone who is not obviously a cop.

    On a personal note: I find it much more comfortable, and easier on my wallet, to dress with my gun than I do trying to dress around my gun.

    Once again, welcome to OCDO, a site devoted to the normalization of the safe open carry of handguns.

    stay safe.
    Thank you. I tried but I can't think of any part of the normalization process I don't understand.

    Life is good!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    Interesting to note,,, That Oklahoma only started allowing Open Carry with a cpl
    starting only about a year ago...
    Before that ,, for many years they only allowed Concealed Carry with a cpl! No OC!!
    I dont know how may years that goes back to...
    I'm in my late 60's and as I said, I grew up (1950's '60''s) in an area of Oklahoma where it was completely normal to carry your gun in a holster on your belt in plain site. In fact, the sherrif once told us some LEO's would arrest you if you carried the gun where it could NOT be seen! Most of the hand guns during that time were revolvers. I think the military were just beginning to use a Browning semiauto. The only 'permit' I knew about was the deer tag/hunting license. Thanks again for the reply.

    Life is good.
    Last edited by papabling; 11-05-2014 at 01:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    I prefer to OC in places that are LEGAL. I have no control over other people's emotions, nor are they any of my concern. The safety of my family is my concern.
    Exactly - This ^^^^^
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    Quote Originally Posted by papabling View Post
    Thank you. I tried but I can't think of any part of the normalization process I don't understand.

    Life is good!
    I'm beginning to think the subtlty was a bit too thick.

    "...and if I could legally 'open carry' I would only choose venues where it would NOT freak out the public. Freaking out the public or startling an LEO is not cool!" I'm missing how "only venues -- is not cool" normalizes anything. It sounds more like OCing only in places where folks are already used to it - and in my book that's not normalizing. My book says normalizing is accustoming the population to seeing OC in every place and setting where the carrying of handguns is legal, regardless of how some part of the population (MDA, CSGV primarily but there are others) might feel about it.

    stay safe.
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    How's the best way to normalize OC?

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I'm beginning to think the subtlty was a bit too thick.

    "...and if I could legally 'open carry' I would only choose venues where it would NOT freak out the public. Freaking out the public or startling an LEO is not cool!" I'm missing how "only venues -- is not cool" normalizes anything. It sounds more like OCing only in places where folks are already used to it - and in my book that's not normalizing. My book says normalizing is accustoming the population to seeing OC in every place and setting where the carrying of handguns is legal, regardless of how some part of the population (MDA, CSGV primarily but there are others) might feel about it.

    stay safe.
    I see your point. But shouldn't you have a starting place with progressions. Normalizing the brain is more subjective than the objective normalization of computer data.

    Life is good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I'm beginning to think the subtlty was a bit too thick.

    "...and if I could legally 'open carry' I would only choose venues where it would NOT freak out the public. Freaking out the public or startling an LEO is not cool!" I'm missing how "only venues -- is not cool" normalizes anything. It sounds more like OCing only in places where folks are already used to it - and in my book that's not normalizing. My book says normalizing is accustoming the population to seeing OC in every place and setting where the carrying of handguns is legal, regardless of how some part of the population (MDA, CSGV primarily but there are others) might feel about it.

    stay safe.
    Quote Originally Posted by papabling View Post
    I see your point. But shouldn't you have a starting place with progressions. Normalizing the brain is more subjective than the objective normalization of computer data.

    Life is good.
    The "starting point" is EVERYWHERE it is legal to openly carry a firearm, and the "progression" is in making currently "illegal" places, legal. "Other people's feelings" simply do not matter when it comes to my personal responsibility to protect and defend myself or family.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    If you are OCing a Glock...I suggest CCing. I'd "feel" safer when I don't see a Glock.
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    Quote Originally Posted by papabling View Post
    I think so. Some reasons (for debate of course) are:

    Enables carrying a handgun:

    - With a frame size that fits the hand better than a tiny CC gun.
    - Chambered for a more effective (larger) load than a tiny CC gun.
    - With more shot accuracy than a CC gun.
    Personally, I would tend to disagree with these - I CC a Sig P229DAK in .357Sig (12+1) and it conceals just fine with a Galco V-Hawk IWB holster. My P239 conceals a bit better, being single stack, and aside from a few less rounds, is every bit as comfortable and effective as the P229.

    - That is more controllable when drawing. Eliminates fumbling with a concealed holster - in the wasteband, pocket, etc.

    I'm in Texas now and can't legally 'open carry' unless on private property that allows it, but I grew up in Oklahoma (long time ago)
    and never had a problem carrying a gun in a holster in plain site.

    What do you think?
    That could be argued as true, although I imagine with enough practice, one could get really fluid WRT drawing from concealment.

    I don't really think either one is really 'safer'. Some might argue that it would make you a target, but the odds of that are low, and in cases where that is in fact the case, odds are the person is so hardcore that NOTHING would stop them short of being shot first. The average crook would more than likely see the gun and decide to take his wrongdoings elsewhere.
    Last edited by 357SigFan; 11-07-2014 at 03:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by papabling View Post
    ..and if I could legally 'open carry' I would only choose venues where it would NOT freak out the public. Freaking out the public or startling an LEO is not cool!
    Since you're from TX: How could you know that OCing causes the public to "freak out" or "startles" a LEO?

    The former barely notice, if at all; the latter are *usually* aware of the law, including OC laws.

    Do, where's the problem?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 357SigFan View Post
    Personally, I would tend to disagree with these - I CC a Sig P229DAK in .357Sig (12+1) and it conceals just fine with a Galco V-Hawk IWB holster. My P239 conceals a bit better, being single stack, and aside from a few less rounds, is every bit as comfortable and effective as the P229.
    .
    Don't mean to thread hijack here, but real quick question... how would you compare the DAK to the DA/SA? I have a P229 DA/SA and love it. It seems like mostly LE carry the DAK trigger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    Since you're from TX: How could you know that OCing causes the public to "freak out" or "startles" a LEO?

    The former barely notice, if at all; the latter are *usually* aware of the law, including OC laws.

    Do, where's the problem?
    I'm actually 'from' Oklahoma but I live in Texas. I hope there won't be problems after Texas passes an OC law but based on what I read in the news from OC states, there are public and LEO problems with OC. You can see these reports if you Google or Bing keywords like: 'legal open carry arrests'. There's a high noise level and some of this news is a result of carrying a long gun in public (protests, etc.). Carrying anything other than a handgun for defense doesn't make sense to me.

    Life is good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by papabling View Post
    I'm actually 'from' Oklahoma but I live in Texas. I hope there won't be problems after Texas passes an OC law but based on what I read in the news from OC states, there are public and LEO problems with OC. You can see these reports if you Google or Bing keywords like: 'legal open carry arrests'. There's a high noise level and some of this news is a result of carrying a long gun in public (protests, etc.). Carrying anything other than a handgun for defense doesn't make sense to me.

    Life is good.
    About the part of your post I put in bold...

    It is ... the right to bear arms.... for each and every one of us. Doesn't matter if I, or you, consider someone carrying a certain "arm" in a certain way does/doesn't make sense to you or me it still is the ... right to bear arms.... so how, why, when, where, and what, someone else exercises that right is not my, or your, business.

    Of course we all have our opinions about which arms we personally consider to be "reasonable", "appropriate", and "acceptable" but that opinion should only matter to how, when, where, why, and what, we personally for our individual selves bear arms.... and we should never expect or demand others to have their right to bear arms restricted to our personal opinion.

    If you don't think it is "reasonable" to bear anything other than a handgun? Then don't carry anything other than a handgun ....but kindly do not disparage those who exercise their right to bear "arms" by carrying something other than a handgun.

    If you don't think it is "appropriate" to bear arms any reason other than self defense? Then don't carry for any reason other than self defense.... but kindly do not disparage those who exercise their right to bear "arms" by carrying for the purposes of self defense AND exercising their right to free speech to make a political statement.

    If you don't think it is "acceptable" to carry a gun for the purpose of creating opportunities to educate the public that they have the right to bear arms and that it is legal to do so? Then don't carry hoping to have the chance to show others that carrying is not only their right but is also legal..... but kindly do not disparage those who exercise their right to bear "arms" AND their right to free speech in the hopes of educating folks about the right to bear arms.

    I'm not saying you personally want others to only bear arms of a certain kind in a certain way only in certain places for just certain reasons that fit your personal opinion(s)...... I'm saying none of us has any right to restrict the rights of others just because they aren't exercising their right according to our personal opinion of what is "reasonable", "appropriate", and "acceptable".

    Actually... it is the anti gunner who considers restricting the right to bear arms "reasonable", "appropriate", and "acceptable" as long as they are the ones who get to say what, when, where, how, and why, is "UNreasonable", "INappropriate", and "UNacceptable".

    And,quite frankly, any gun owner who wishes to restrict the right to bear arms in ways that are less than an outright ban or an outright ban according to their personal standard of "reasonableness", "appropriateness", and "acceptableness" are... in my opinion... also anti gunners because they share the same mind set of wanting be the ones who get to say where/when it is "UNreasonable" to carry, what is "INappropriate" to carry, and what/when/where/why/and even how it is "UNacceptable" to carry.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 11-08-2014 at 10:31 AM. Reason: Clean up wording to be more clear.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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