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Thread: I-594 and Open Carry, in Washington State

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    I-594 and Open Carry, in Washington State

    Useless firearm legislation has passed in the State of Washington (for now) I am curious how this will all affect legal open carry in the State of Washington. Many open carriers have stories of "investigatory stops" while they have been out in public. In my experience, law enforcement in our state has been pretty cool about not going over-board when confronting an open carrier. As a public photographer and citizen journalist who also open carries, I can tell you: almost every time I have been stopped, "investigated," and even harassed by law enforcement, it has been directly due to the fact that I am filming in public. Even though both activities are legal here, the camera REALLY puts law enforcement on edge.

    So, since I have very little trust in the Government or it's officials to be responsible and respectful of now having a little more control over law-abiding citizens, it makes me wonder. If I am stopped by a law enforcement officer, post I-594, and the officer disarms me during one of these investigatory stops, do I now have to pass a background check, just to get my firearm handed back to me? If this is the case, I can see legal open carry in this state threatened.

    Any input?

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    I think the exception for LE covers securing a pistol during a stop there is no state with UBC laws where that is an issue
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    That's a very good point. It's legal under 594's law enforcement exemption to hand your firearm to a police officer, but when he hands it back to you he is NOT handing it to a law enforcement officer or government official, he would be in violation of the law.

    As would you for accepting it. Two felonies, no waiting.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Man, this is a nightmare.

    I don't want to be a negative Nancy, but where was all the crying before the vote? How did this pass so handily if it's so detrimental to gun owners? 60% is a landslide IMO. It seems like there was no education out there on the law, as if no one warned the voting public.
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    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    That's a very good point. It's legal under 594's law enforcement exemption to hand your firearm to a police officer, but when he hands it back to you he is NOT handing it to a law enforcement officer or government official, he would be in violation of the law.

    As would you for accepting it. Two felonies, no waiting.
    I would like to think that because the LEO is exempt, by giving back your rightfully constitutionally owned property, one could not be arrested for that.

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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    I posed this very question to Renton PD's police chief. I actually got a quick reply - they don't know what they are going to do yet.

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    Regular Member sirtirithon's Avatar
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    Wink

    LEO's shouldnt be stopping us OC'ers any longer because if you have a handgun in your possession you must have passed a BGC and be a law abiding citizen, correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    I think the exception for LE covers securing a pistol during a stop there is no state with UBC laws where that is an issue
    Of course exemptions/exceptions to laws must be proven in court ~ in fact, they do not exist until plead in court as they can be waived .. so would this make the police subject to immediate citizen's arrests?

    Interesting ...

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmariner99 View Post
    I posed this very question to Renton PD's police chief. I actually got a quick reply - they don't know what they are going to do yet.
    How about they refuse to enforce the unconstitutional law.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    How about they refuse to enforce the unconstitutional law.
    Hello, THEY DONT CARE.

    (you knew that I assume)

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seriona View Post
    I would like to think that because the LEO is exempt, by giving back your rightfully constitutionally owned property, one could not be arrested for that.
    Everything is arrestable. Everything.

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    Regular Member cjohnson44546's Avatar
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    Like most things put to a public vote... it was the best propaganda that won. The proponents of i594 basically outright lied to everyone about how wonderful and useful the bill would be. It seems its not illegal to lie to get votes.

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    Regular Member March Hare's Avatar
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    Wow

    I hate to see the great state of Washington turning into California North.

    I really hope that the Citizens realize what a mess this law is and work to get it repealed!

    What a cluster...

    Good luck!

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    Vires et honestas

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    One way to get rid of a bad law is to vigorously enforce it. A good start might be to enforce it against:

    1) Legislators who gather at shooting matches and speak out of both sides of their mouths: http://seattletimes.com/html/localne...ootoutxml.html
    2) Police officers
    3) Body guards of Bill Gates
    4) Body guards of Paul Allen

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjohnson44546 View Post
    Like most things put to a public vote... it was the best propaganda that won. The proponents of i594 basically outright lied to everyone about how wonderful and useful the bill would be. It seems its not illegal to lie to get votes.

    This comes to mind.....

    "It is not improbable that many or most of the worst of governments --- although established by force, and by a few, in the first place --- come, in time, to be supported by a majority. But if they do, this majority is composed, in large part, of the most ignorant, superstitious, timid, dependent, servile, and corrupt portions of the people; of those who have been over-awed by the power, intelligence, wealth, and arrogance; of those who have been deceived by the frauds; and of those who have been corrupted by the inducements, of the few who really constitute the government. Such majorities, very likely, could be found in half, perhaps nine-tenths, of all the countries on the globe. What do they prove? Nothing but the tyranny and corruption of the very governments that have reduced so large portions of [*9] the people to their present ignorance, servility, degradation, and corruption; an ignorance, servility, degradation, and corruption that are best illustrated in the simple fact that they do sustain governments that have so oppressed, degraded, and corrupted them. They do nothing towards proving that the governments themselves are legitimate; or that they ought to be sustained, or even endured, by those who understand their true character. The mere fact, therefore, that a government chances to be sustained by a majority, of itself proves nothing that is necessary to be proved, in order to know whether such government should be sustained, or not."- Lysander Spooner

    Bolded for emphasis....
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    As would you for accepting it. Two felonies, no waiting.
    Yes, but you are a witness to the LEO's felony. You don't piss off witnesses to your own crimes by arresting them.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Man, this is a nightmare.

    I don't want to be a negative Nancy, but where was all the crying before the vote? How did this pass so handily if it's so detrimental to gun owners? 60% is a landslide IMO. It seems like there was no education out there on the law, as if no one warned the voting public.
    A comfortable lie is more believable to the ignorant than an uncomfortable truth. Tell a fool that he is not free until he gives up his freedom, and he will run to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by randian View Post
    Yes, but you are a witness to the LEO's felony. You don't piss off witnesses to your own crimes by arresting them.
    You'd think so, but that's not the case. Police arrest their victims all the time -- there was a guy I read about a while back who was charged with four counts of destruction of government property because he bled on the officers uniforms while they were beating him half to death -- he was face down on the floor of a cell with his arms handcuffed behind him at the time.
    Last edited by Difdi; 11-07-2014 at 08:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    Man, this is a nightmare.

    I don't want to be a negative Nancy, but where was all the crying before the vote? How did this pass so handily if it's so detrimental to gun owners? 60% is a landslide IMO. It seems like there was no education out there on the law, as if no one warned the voting public.
    It was that damned school shooting that REALLY did it in for us. I just KNEW the moment I heard about the shooting, that was it. We lost then and there. Now, what do we do about it? Well, the protest is coming up, and I'd love to join that if possible, but unless King goes red, we're gonna probably see more bills pass very soon. This is the beginning. Right now, we need to find SOME way to convince King County voters to avoid falling for OTHER Gun Control bills.

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tannerwaterbury View Post
    It was that damned school shooting that REALLY did it in for us.
    That shooting was SO convenient for the pro-594 people I wondered about the possibility of a false flag operation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Of course exemptions/exceptions to laws must be proven in court ~ in fact, they do not exist until plead in court as they can be waived .. so would this make the police subject to immediate citizen's arrests?

    Interesting ...
    All depends upon how the law is written---

    If it is written that certain activities are "defenses to" then, yes, it must be claimed in court.

    If however, it is written that certain activities are not a violation, or say, a certain class (permit holders) are exempt then NO, you don't have to claim it in court as you shouldn't have been charged or prosecuted to start with. And your follow on suit for false arrest/malicious prosecution/rights violations will have much more teeth!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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