Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 204

Thread: Civil Disobediance

  1. #1
    Regular Member Bill45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, USA
    Posts
    160

    Civil Disobediance

    After I-594 goes into effect there should be a mass gathering in Olympia. We should all gather in a large circle and publicly pass our guns around the group untill we each have our own back.

    Lets see them arrest what would hopefully be 100 to 200+ people. In affect an exercise in public disobediance.

  2. #2
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    north mason county, Washington, USA
    Posts
    4,381

    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill45 View Post
    After I-594 goes into effect there should be a mass gathering in Olympia. We should all gather in a large circle and publicly pass our guns around the group untill we each have our own back.

    Lets see them arrest what would hopefully be 100 to 200+ people. In affect an exercise in public disobediance.
    Well guess what???

    We are,,,,, December 13th, 11AM https://www.facebook.com/events/788109621237033/
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    691
    How about adding, carrying concealed with no permit, bringing along your homemade silencer/full auto converted/etc. etc. etc.

    I594 is at the hind end of infringements all of us have already endured.

    This is about civil disobedience not breaking UNCONSTITUTIONAL "Laws", right?

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Redmond
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill45 View Post
    After I-594 goes into effect there should be a mass gathering in Olympia. We should all gather in a large circle and publicly pass our guns around the group untill we each have our own back.

    Lets see them arrest what would hopefully be 100 to 200+ people. In affect an exercise in public disobediance.
    unless you have a WA AG opinion that handing a gun to someone constitutes a transfer under 594, this is a bad idea.

    LEO is going to do NOTHING. they just aren't going to bother. then MDA/WAGR will claim victory with "see! told you handing a gun to someone is not a transfer! haw haw haw!" and you will all look foolish. in front of the media.

    FIRST get a WA AG opinion that handing a gun to someone IS a transfer under 594. THEN do your civil disobedience.

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/AGOOpinions/default.aspx

    if you don't have a WA AG opinion, this will backfire in your faces, it will be negative PR for gun owners and huge positive PR for bloomberg.

    also, december is the worst time to do this. NOBODY will be in olympia. they aren't holding any sessions then. you want visibility? do it in january when the house is in session. december is completely wrong timing.
    Last edited by bani; 11-08-2014 at 03:16 PM.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Philipsburg, Montana
    Posts
    3,138
    Quote Originally Posted by bani View Post
    completely wrong timing.
    This is something we have been consistent with lately.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Redmond
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    This is something we have been consistent with lately.
    the organizer is also quite the character. he shares the same zeal and aggressiveness that you see in those adorable tax protesters.

    i don't think this rally is going to end well for them. they're just going to be providing plenty of fuel for the "gun owners are iresponsible unhinged looneys" fire.
    Last edited by bani; 11-09-2014 at 08:32 AM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member sirtirithon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Spokane, ,
    Posts
    55
    Quote Originally Posted by bani View Post
    the organizer is also quite the character. he shares the same zeal and aggressiveness that you see in those adorable tax protesters.

    i don't think this rally is going to end well for them. they're just going to be providing plenty of fuel for the "gun owners are iresponsible unhinged looneys" fire.
    What we are doing is showing them that the "law" is null and void. It violates our constitution. It is our duty to not comply. If we all stand together it cannot be enforced. The line has been drawn.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Redmond
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by sirtirithon View Post
    What we are doing is showing them that the "law" is null and void. It violates our constitution. It is our duty to not comply. If we all stand together it cannot be enforced. The line has been drawn.
    what you are doing is purely reactionary, not well thought out and not well planned. a well thought out and planned rally wouldn't be taking place in december, and wouldn't be lacking WA AG opinions to back up your civil disobedience.

    i repeat, your "civil disobedience" is going to be ignored by LEO, and MDA/WAGR will claim victory at your expense.

    you won't accomplish anything other than damaging your own cause. it is your freedom to do so, just as it is your freedom to be foolish.

    also, for the OP - disobedience doesn't have an "a" in it. we don't to reinforce the stereotype that gun owners are illiterate
    Last edited by bani; 11-09-2014 at 02:43 PM.

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    691
    bani: Are you Alan Gottliebs personal assistant?

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Yelm, WA
    Posts
    51
    "....WA AG opinion..."
    ..."...WA AG opinion..."

    Please explain the full legal effect of this "opinion" you esteem.

    Feel free to cite any law or ordinance that requires a judge or jury to abide by such esteemed opinion.

    I'll wait...

    OK
    Last edited by O_Kellogg; 11-09-2014 at 03:08 PM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Redmond
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by O_Kellogg View Post
    "....WA AG opinion..."
    ..."...WA AG opinion..."

    Please explain the full legal effect of this "opinion" you esteem.

    Feel free to cite any law or ordinance that requires a judge or jury to abide by such esteemed opinion.

    I'll wait...

    OK
    nothing.

    here is the point: a WA AG opinion will help keep you from being embarassed in front of the media. if the WA AG rules it IS a transfer, then MDA/WAGR will look foolish arguing against it, and you will have a much more favorable position with your civil disobedience in front of the media. if LEO decline to arrest anyone with an AG ruling that it IS a transfer, then your point to the media will be made MUCH stronger. proving it is a ridiculous law and stupid to enforce. it will be a definite win.

    remember, MDA/WAGR have been arguing all along that it is not a transfer. and when LEO decline to do anything, they will appear vindicated and you'll look like fools. why hand a PR victory to them?

    get a WA AG opinion to back you up.

    and as i stated before, december is the WORST time to hold your rally.
    Last edited by bani; 11-09-2014 at 03:35 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Yelm, WA
    Posts
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by O_Kellogg View Post
    Please explain...

    Feel free to cite...

    Quote Originally Posted by bani View Post
    nothing.
    Oh. Well, thanks for playing.

    Would you like to play again?
    Please describe a universe in which "The Media" would present any political issue or event without an extreme bias.
    For extra credit you might suggest my reasons for caring what the general public thinks, or how catering to the TeeVee masses promotes freedom.


    OK

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Isn't the term "transfer" short for "transfer of ownership"?

    Are they re-inventing definitions?

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Redmond
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by O_Kellogg View Post
    Oh. Well, thanks for playing.

    Would you like to play again?
    Please describe a universe in which "The Media" would present any political issue or event without an extreme bias.
    For extra credit you might suggest my reasons for caring what the general public thinks, or how catering to the TeeVee masses promotes freedom.


    OK
    so then what is the point of this rally? who is your message targeting? how will it improve the situation for gun owners?
    Last edited by bani; 11-09-2014 at 05:38 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Redmond
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by sirtirithon View Post
    What we are doing is showing them that the "law" is null and void. It violates our constitution. It is our duty to not comply. If we all stand together it cannot be enforced. The line has been drawn.
    you will not be showing anyone that "the law" is "null and void". you will just be proving that what MDA/WAGR have been claiming all along is correct, that handing a gun to someone is not a transfer. they will get to claim a victory at your expense.
    Last edited by bani; 11-09-2014 at 05:39 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    996
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Isn't the term "transfer" short for "transfer of ownership"?

    Are they re-inventing definitions?
    In common usage and many actual statutes, you're right, it's transfer of ownership. But in case law and in 594, it's transfer of possession. It doesn't matter what the common sense definition is or what an older law defined a transfer as, what matters is what current case law and new statutes define it as -- and under 594 a transfer is of possession as well, not just ownership.
    Last edited by Difdi; 11-09-2014 at 08:26 PM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Henrico
    Posts
    2,139
    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    In common usage and many actual statutes, you're right, it's transfer of ownership. But in case law and in 594, it's transfer of possession. It doesn't matter what the common sense definition is or what an older law defined a transfer as, what matters is what current case law and new statutes define it as -- and under 594 a transfer is of possession as well, not just ownership.
    So if you let someone "borrow" something without explicitly defining the terms of the "transfer," they now legally own the item and the burden of proof is on you to provide proof that the "transfer" wasn't one or the other?
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Isn't the term "transfer" short for "transfer of ownership"?

    Are they re-inventing definitions?
    Now we are getting to the meat of it. Of like to see the case law or statute everyone is saying changes the definition.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    So if you let someone "borrow" something without explicitly defining the terms of the "transfer," they now legally own the item and the burden of proof is on you to provide proof that the "transfer" wasn't one or the other?
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Redmond
    Posts
    29
    the interpretations are all too vague and will likely have to be settled in the courts.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Mercer Island
    Posts
    661
    Quote Originally Posted by bani View Post
    unless you have a WA AG opinion that handing a gun to someone constitutes a transfer under 594, this is a bad idea.

    LEO is going to do NOTHING. they just aren't going to bother. then MDA/WAGR will claim victory with "see! told you handing a gun to someone is not a transfer! haw haw haw!" and you will all look foolish. in front of the media.

    FIRST get a WA AG opinion that handing a gun to someone IS a transfer under 594. THEN do your civil disobedience.

    http://www.atg.wa.gov/AGOOpinions/default.aspx

    if you don't have a WA AG opinion, this will backfire in your faces, it will be negative PR for gun owners and huge positive PR for bloomberg.

    also, december is the worst time to do this. NOBODY will be in olympia. they aren't holding any sessions then. you want visibility? do it in january when the house is in session. december is completely wrong timing.
    I agree with this 100%

    Think about it. LEOs are not going to try and go after dozens or hundreds of people at once, even if they are technically breaking a law. Instead you'll have MDA/WAGR claiming they were right and that handing someone a gun isn't a "transfer" and they'll say that the fact that WA State Troopers didn't bring 300 paddy wagons to cart you all away is the proof, even if they're lying.

    If and when police DO come for gun owners to arrest for transfer violations it will be one at a time and quietly without fanfare.

    This rally is a huge mistake and will only be used against us.

    I know many of you are angry. I am angry as well. I am angry at myself for not doing more despite having made calls, emails, gone door-knocking, handing out fliers, putting up signs and donating all I could. I am angry because I feel that the NRA largely abandoned us. But that doesn't change where we are right now.

    Right now we have to move forward. To everyone who is upset about this, donate to the SAF and lets wait for the lawsuit. Don't do anything dumb to get an arrest and possible felony on your record, and don't do anything to further marginalize gun owners in the public's eye. This kind of response is exactly what WAGR wants you to do. if you do this, you will play right into their hands!
    Last edited by Alpine; 11-09-2014 at 11:50 PM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    2,227
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    I agree with this 100%

    Think about it. LEOs are not going to try and go after dozens or hundreds of people at once, even if they are technically breaking a law.
    You're right!

    http://trutube.tv/video/21288/Seattle-Mardi-Gras-Riots

    Rape? IGNORE IT!
    http://womensenews.org/story/rape/02...-assault-photo

    http://seattle.livejournal.com/3274529.html?nojs=1
    You can look at this image a long time, all the smiling, drunk, young men touching a piece of her like it's Christmas morning.
    Apparently LEO can look at a lady being raped / sexually assaulted -- and look for a long time while doing nothing to stop it.

    So yes, if enough gun owners show up to a protest event, it's possible cops won't do a thing.

    It's also possible they will shoot people.

    [/dice roll]
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 11-10-2014 at 12:53 PM.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Carnation, Washington, USA
    Posts
    748
    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Now we are getting to the meat of it. Of like to see the case law or statute everyone is saying changes the definition.
    Straight out of 594:

    (25) "Transfer" means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


    Talk to your cats about catnip - before it's too late.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by ak56 View Post
    Straight out of 594:
    Thank you ak I appreciate that.
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  24. #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    691
    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Thank you ak I appreciate that.
    We don't make the laws, we just enforce them.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff. State View Post
    We don't make the laws, we just enforce them.
    You do? Wow what a statist thug. How do you sleep at night hating liberty like you do?
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •