Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26

Thread: Women's self-defense Nov 18 in Franklin, Va.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    SE Va., , Occupied CSA
    Posts
    366

    Women's self-defense Nov 18 in Franklin, Va.

    I see in the newspaper there will be a female self-defense seminar held in Franklin, Va. on Nov 18. In the article, nowhere do I see a mention of firearms as a topic. I guess they just want you to do every thing ELSE, BUT the most effective thing? I don't know, but thought some of you education types might want to try to get on the agenda? If so, contact Spivey at 757 562-3187 or ginnie.spivey@tidewaternews.com The event is free.

    http://www.tidewaternews.com/2014/11...en-to-be-safe/
    VCDL, Army Vet, Virginia Native

    Hey, Libtards, it's the "Bill of Rights," not the "Bill of Needs" . . . . .

    If the 2A does not apply to modern weapons, then the 1A does not apply to modern communications like the Internet! How do you like them apples!?

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    I see in the newspaper there will be a female self-defense seminar held in Franklin, Va. on Nov 18. In the article, nowhere do I see a mention of firearms as a topic. I guess they just want you to do every thing ELSE, BUT the most effective thing? I don't know, but thought some of you education types might want to try to get on the agenda? If so, contact Spivey at 757 562-3187 or ginnie.spivey@tidewaternews.com The event is free.

    http://www.tidewaternews.com/2014/11...en-to-be-safe/
    They have invited a martial arts person to demonstrate a few moves. There will be a talk by a deputy about not wearing provocative clothing or going out after sunset without a "battle/shopping buddy". Someone from a company called "Damsel in Defense" will hawk her wares - the rape whistle only comes as a part of a car breakdown kit.

    Raising awareness is good. Getting women to have some very basic tools (jumper cables, flashlight) in a pretty pink bag labled "Junk in the Trunk" is good - but would be better if they knew how to use them. The problem I see is, like many gun owners who read the manual that came with it and consider themselves trained, that those attending will think they now know enough about "how to do self defense".

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Alexandria, Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,765
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    I see in the newspaper there will be a female self-defense seminar held in Franklin, Va. on Nov 18. In the article, nowhere do I see a mention of firearms as a topic. I guess they just want you to do every thing ELSE, BUT the most effective thing? I don't know, but thought some of you education types might want to try to get on the agenda? If so, contact Spivey at 757 562-3187 or ginnie.spivey@tidewaternews.com The event is free.

    http://www.tidewaternews.com/2014/11...en-to-be-safe/

    I haven't checked on it recently, but the Fairfax County police have been known to have a self-defense course for women only, no men even permitted to watch (except the instructors, ain't that cute - no women to teach it). When the officer in charge of the program spoke to my sorority group, he not only refused to discuss firearms as a self-defense mechanism, but provided incorrect information in his dismissive remarks.

    There's a reason I have taken martial arts training, and courses such as this Unarmed Self Defense course - but not from the county police.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622
    As time and money permit, skip nothing from Apha to Omega in your quest to improve your defensive capabilities. Pay particular attention to the strongest aspect (gun safety and use) and insist that it be included in any course of training. To depend on instruction/advice that omits this can be very expensive, even if the course is free.

    This is not about feeling good - it is about being good enough to survive.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  5. #5
    Newbie ContemporaryTactics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Delray Beach, FL
    Posts
    6

    Alpha to Omega

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    As time and money permit, skip nothing from Apha to Omega in your quest to improve your defensive capabilities. Pay particular attention to the strongest aspect (gun safety and use) and insist that it be included in any course of training. To depend on instruction/advice that omits this can be very expensive, even if the course is free.

    This is not about feeling good - it is about being good enough to survive.
    Grapeshot, well said!

    I've taught more than a thousand women throughout the country. During each class, I ask if any of the participants carry handguns. I've seen less than 10 hands go up in the six years that I've dedicated to women's self-defense. I understand that many may decline to volunteer that info, but the fact remains: most women don't carry. (23% seems awfully high in my opinion. Almost 1 in 4 women are carrying? But what do I know...)

    In my courses, I don't recommend or "push" carrying. Truthfully, it's not for everyone. I know cops who shouldn't be carrying on the streets due to inaptitude. Now we've got educators shooting toilets and themselves on school campuses. You know the stories... Instead, I talk about the pros, cons, realities and responsibilities involved in carrying and brandishing a handgun or any weapon, for that matter.

    The missing link in most basic handgun permit courses is weapon retention. This is a topic of instruction that requires days or weeks to cover adequately, not a couple of hours. I practiced CQC (Close Quarters Combat) 3-4 times a week for 16 years with my team and I still don't think it was "enough."

    I definitely agree that any good women's self-defense course or seminar should at least touch upon the issues of carrying handguns. I also believe it is important to ensure that these ladies get a healthy dose of reality. If you pull a gun, in close quarters, and don't know how to defend against someone's attempt to take it from you, you will likely wish you left it at home.

    Good points by all! I just thought I'd chime in. (I'm new to forums...I hope to chat with you guys and gals more often!)

    Be safe,

    Ken Stephens
    Last edited by ContemporaryTactics; 11-09-2014 at 07:41 PM.

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622
    Quote Originally Posted by ContemporaryTactics View Post
    --snipped--

    I definitely agree that any good women's self-defense course or seminar should at least touch upon the issues of concealed carry.
    Fixed it for you - see strike through.

    While this is a site dedicated to OC, we recognize the personal decision/choice between OC, CC and noC.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
    Newbie ContemporaryTactics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Delray Beach, FL
    Posts
    6

    Oops!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Fixed it for you - see strike through.

    While this is a site dedicated to OC, we recognize the personal decision/choice between OC, CC and noC.
    OOPS! Sorry, it's the Marylander in me.

    I really meant to refer to the topic of carrying a handgun...(open or concealed.) Yet, OPEN CARRY is very likely to deter non-intimate instances of sexual assault/abductions!

    Thank you for the kind reminder!

    Be safe everyone,

    Ken

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622
    Quote Originally Posted by ContemporaryTactics View Post
    OOPS! Sorry, it's the Marylander in me.

    I really meant to refer to the topic of carrying a handgun...(open or concealed.) Yet, OPEN CARRY is very likely to deter non-intimate instances of sexual assault/abductions!

    Thank you for the kind reminder!

    Be safe everyone,

    Ken
    In your line of work and with your background, are you familiar with Aaron_Cohen? My son brought him in to train their team - hellova great course I was told.

    Not really OT for this thread because such training applies equally to both sexes.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-09-2014 at 07:55 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    ContemporaryTactics -

    Welcome to OCDO.

    On a personal note, you need to work a lot harder on washing the vestiges of Maryland out of your soul. Florida, with it's efforts to get OC decriminalized, may be a good place for you to do that.

    No matter what form or flavor one decides to adopt for self defense, it has always seemed to me that the resolve to do so is more important than the means selected to accomplish that. That is a bit more difficult when working with women. I blame the cultural shift of the middle 20th century from self sufficiency and providing for the care of the family to merely emotional support, and then the emasculation of boys. Women used to be much more dangerous to mess with (mother bear/cubs meme). now they have been indoctrinated to not upset feelings, let alone cause actual physical injury.

    I am totally at a loss to figure out how to teach resolve as a part of a two-hour lecture. It is my hope, but not my expectation, that all of the presenters will be giving information on where and how to get training and what sorts of training provide what sorts of benefits. One of our Va trainers (the one I know of and can thus speak about) offers everything from "Run Away!" to pepper spray and batons and unarmed tactics on up to armed CQC.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  10. #10
    Newbie ContemporaryTactics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Delray Beach, FL
    Posts
    6
    Skidmark,

    I agree totally. I'm doing my best to counter the B.S. strategies and techniques, taught by self-proclaimed "experts," that only work on YouTube with overly-cooperative training partners. My goal is to use the 20 years of police experience (16 years SWAT - 2,000+ high risk missions) and 35 years of martial arts experience I've acquired to provide women with options that work. Not because I say so, but because the victims I've interviewed, perpetrators I've questioned and my own personal experiences fighting for my life prove these tactics to be effective.

    I digress... I agree that comprehensive Women's Self-Defense programs require qualified instructors to teach or at least discuss the most effective techniques available. Carrying a handgun is definitely one of them. But, it comes with a price: women (and men) had better learn what they're doing with that thing on their hip. Basic "permit" courses fail to adequately prepare people for the realities of "Skinning that smoke wagon" (a la "Tombstone" 1993).

    Be safe everyone.

    Train and train some more,

    Ken

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622
    Quote Originally Posted by ContemporaryTactics View Post
    Skidmark,

    I agree totally. I'm doing my best to counter the B.S. strategies and techniques, taught by self-proclaimed "experts," that only work on YouTube with overly-cooperative training partners. My goal is to use the 20 years of police experience (16 years SWAT - 2,000+ high risk missions) and 35 years of martial arts experience I've acquired to provide women with options that work. Not because I say so, but because the victims I've interviewed, perpetrators I've questioned and my own personal experiences fighting for my life prove these tactics to be effective.

    I digress... I agree that comprehensive Women's Self-Defense programs require qualified instructors to teach or at least discuss the most effective techniques available. Carrying a handgun is definitely one of them. But, it comes with a price: women (and men) had better learn what they're doing with that thing on their hip. Basic "permit" courses fail to adequately prepare people for the realities of "Skinning that smoke wagon" (a la "Tombstone" 1993).

    Be safe everyone.

    Train and train some more,

    Ken
    Training is good. More training is better. The full effective use of such training is the ultimate test of those skills.

    Still a gun in the hands of a neophyte and otherwise unarmed victim is superior to the alternative - death or serious injury by default.

    When is enough training enough? Should a particular level be required before carrying for self-defense?

    Cutting to the chase - I would rather see a loved one have the capacity to stop a threat on their life with such force as required, with no training if that be the case.

    All things in perspective. Training is very good. No tool, no capacity is very bad.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Newbie ContemporaryTactics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Delray Beach, FL
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Training is good. More training is better. The full effective use of such training is the ultimate test of those skills.

    Still a gun in the hands of a neophyte and otherwise unarmed victim is superior to the alternative - death or serious injury by default.

    When is enough training enough? Should a particular level be required before carrying for self-defense?

    Cutting to the chase - I would rather see a loved one have the capacity to stop a threat on their life with such force as required, with no training if that be the case.

    All things in perspective. Training is very good. No tool, no capacity is very bad.
    Grapeshot,

    I am certain we are on the same page when it comes to people being able to protect themselves by all means necessary. The words that follow are not intended to "educate you" or otherwise insult your intelligence. I'd just like to provide my thoughts.

    With regard to training, my team believed "Amateurs practice until they get it right. Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong." (-Author Unknown)

    What's that mean? Never stop practicing, because you'll never be perfect. That was law-enforcement special operations. I'm not sure how to address non-sworn citizens who carry guns for self-protection. I do know, however, that the permit courses I've seen / reviewed are simply not enough to prepare a person to fight for their lives. Basic firearm safety and firing a few rounds at a paper target don't scratch the surface of the skills necessary to draw and fire in a violent, close-quarters combat scenario.

    I'd like to think most of these courses offer intermediate and perhaps advanced training options. However, I know that many people would probably be content with getting that permit and walking out the door, never to come back.

    You asked, "how much training is enough?" I believe it depends on how proficient you want and/or need to be.

    Innocent people who want to protect themselves from predators are at a disadvantage from the start. It's unlikely that they WANT to hurt people, nor enjoy it. What I've seen, as a result of training thousands of law-enforcement officers, is hesitancy. Drawing a firearm and pointing it at someone, without the intention to kill them, is a very dangerous, yet common problem. A gun is not a magic wand. People need to realize that "waving it around" doesn't always solve problems. The "magician" is likely to have that gun taken from them. I've proven that on many occasions...again, dealing with professional law-enforcement officers.

    If my mom had a gun, she MIGHT be willing to point it at someone but wouldn't pull the trigger. No matter what. She's a minister and that's just who she is. That gun would likely be used against her, which is why I'd never recommend that she carry or even own a gun. Sad, but true. And she's not the only one in her shoes...

    I've had the great majority of women in my self-defense courses say they wouldn't bite someone or try to blind them with their fingers, no matter what. I can't believe it when I hear it, but it's a very common attitude. That said, the likelihood of them ripping the trigger is very unlikely.

    I think Skidmark was on to something when he talked about the current "culture" and socialization issues.

    Violent predators, on the other hand, do not hesitate. They flip the switch and they go and don't stop until it's over (however it ends.) They'll take that gun and kill you with it - unless you are truly prepared to (1) defend it and (2) pull the trigger until the threat is over. Police officers are killed with their own guns every year! They are certainly more adequately trained than the average citizen who took a permit course. Even so, sadly, it happens.

    I've seen a different side of society. I lived in it for 20 years. I've been shot at. I've had people try to kill me by other means. I've shot and killed to save my life and the lives of others. I've even had to neutralize the first suicide bomber to take hostages on American Soil. (The news article is "somewhat accurate," as you might guess.) Perhaps you and many others on this forum have similar experiences as well. I'm certainly not claiming to be the only guy who's "been there."

    Trust me. I WANT women (and men!) to learn to carry safely. More importantly, I want them to learn to be proficient in defending, deploying and utilizing this life-saving tool. But, like I said before, carrying is not for everyone. A gun in the hands of someone who is mentally, physically or emotionally unprepared to use it could prove more dangerous than having no gun at all.

    Ongoing education and tactical training are the key...and lots of it.

    As usual, this is just my $.02.

    Thank you for the dialogue!

    Be safe,

    Ken

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    You need to be aware of the different purposes between the classes needed to obtain a CHP/CHL/CCW/whatever and even a basic understanding of the principles and mechanics of self defense with a handgun.

    CHP classes cover the legalities of carrying a handgun. Some instructors add to the minimum mandated curriculum but even they know they are not sending "operators" out the door.

    Question for you - do you own an automobile? If so, do you drive that automobile? And if so, what training do you have beyond studying the manual back when you got your first DL? But nobody seems to question your ability to point several thousand pounds of death and destruction down the road in the middle of a herd of other similarly untrained persons - unless and until you have enough accidents to impact either your license or your insurance rates.

    If people can get their DL and strap themselves in a car and have The Government call it good then we have determined to minimum lelel of training needed. The Government has a lower minimum level for handgun carry because only if you want a CHL do you have to get some sort of training.

    Some folks want to be able to more than just point their car from home to work and back again. My experience is that something happened to make them realize that life would have been better if they had more than the minimum skills. Most of the gun folks I know/know of seek to improve their skills because they want to avoid finding out that life could have been better if they had more than minimum skills. But then most of the gun folks I know/know of are not the majority of gun owners.

    Another question - do instructors just hang out there waiting for students, or do they do something to make folks want to be students?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  14. #14
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
    Posts
    4,671
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    I see in the newspaper there will be a female self-defense seminar held in Franklin, Va. on Nov 18. In the article, nowhere do I see a mention of firearms as a topic.

    I will be one of the guest speakers at the event...looking forward to it!
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  15. #15
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622
    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    I will be one of the guest speakers at the event...looking forward to it!
    IMO - they made an excellent choice, Jim. You give a very well balanced, professional presentation.

    Would be nice if someone recorded the event so that we might see it in absentina.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  16. #16
    Newbie ContemporaryTactics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Delray Beach, FL
    Posts
    6

    Thumbs up Original Question - ANSWERED.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    I will be one of the guest speakers at the event...looking forward to it!
    Welp! That answers the question that started this thread! I agree that they appear to have picked a very competent speaker.

    Knock'em dead, Mr. Reynolds. (Well, you know what I mean...)

    Be safe,

    Ken

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    I will be one of the guest speakers at the event...looking forward to it!
    I feel better already.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  18. #18
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
    Posts
    4,671
    Thank you, everyone for the kind words. I'm always happy to talk to folks who want good info on how to protect themselves.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  19. #19
    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    SE Va., , Occupied CSA
    Posts
    366
    Quote Originally Posted by ContemporaryTactics View Post
    Welp! That answers the question that started this thread! I agree that they appear to have picked a very competent speaker.
    +1 well said!
    VCDL, Army Vet, Virginia Native

    Hey, Libtards, it's the "Bill of Rights," not the "Bill of Needs" . . . . .

    If the 2A does not apply to modern weapons, then the 1A does not apply to modern communications like the Internet! How do you like them apples!?

  20. #20
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
    Posts
    4,671
    Update - Really nice turnout tonight. I think there were 30-40 women present. I was the second speaker and in my long-windedness, I ran a wee bit over my time....LOL!
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  21. #21
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
    Posts
    4,671
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,622
    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Most of that story is blocked out - the salient point is not seen
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-21-2014 at 05:00 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Accomac, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,213
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Most of that story is blocked out - the salient point is not seen
    It was blocked out when I first went to it, but after hitting refresh on ie it came up. Now it works everytime
    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
    Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (meaning: "A defence of liberty against tyrants")
    Benjamin Franklin said, "A government that does not trust it's citizens with guns is a government that should not be trusted."



  24. #24
    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    1,597
    Asks for you to take a survey, then gives option not to and you proceed to article

    Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk
    “Men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
    -Thomas Hobbes 1651

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Again, the issue of qualifying for a CHP as opposed to training in self defense. Those are two separate things but everybody on both sides of the gun rights/gun control question and his/her brother/sister conflate the two into being the same thing.

    Some CHP instructors are aware of the difference and provide information to their students about how being lawfully permitted to carry a concealed handgun is not the same as knowing how to use tat handgun for self defense. Some Sheriffs cannot seem to understand the difference.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •