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Thread: Oops, I screwed around and got elected.

  1. #1
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Oops, I screwed around and got elected.

    Not really RKBA related, but I recently got elected to city council in my town. A few years back I addressed some illegal signage on city buildings using 65.870, a concealed ordinance was later attempted and failed, I'm familiar enough with "home rule" to argue against it if it is ever attempted to be used where not applicable, but I wonder that now I will be sitting on "the other side" if there is anything that I need to be mindful of? Any advice from you wiser folks will be appreciated considering I will have no idea what I'm doing come January 1.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Be true to yourself and your constituents.

    Glad you stepped forward.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
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    Put up those signs again so your spouse can sue and win a large lawsuit !

  4. #4
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    How many votes did you get and out of how many votes total?

    Congratulations! Stick to your "guns" and don't let anyone with money push you around.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Congratulations. Be true to your principles, that is for what you were elected by your republican constituency.

    I served two years on my Town Board, elected by the largest plurality and unseated by the second largest plurality. I am proud of everything my Chairman and I accomplished except hiring the kid cop.

    I served on the zoning committee/board as Supervisor and four more years after. My wife says that I am done now. When she is gone then I will run again.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Congratulations on your election to city council.

    A seat on council does not mandate that you support every ordinance that is on the books or is offered for approval. As I undestood my civics class, you have two primary duties: 1) to be fiscally responsible in expending the tax money collected; and 2) to represent the interests of your constituents and the city as a whole as you detemine that to be.

    My favorite example of #1 is David Crocket's (TN) opposition to a bill to provide a $100,000 pension to the widow of Commodore Stephen Decatur. He said providing for widows was a good thing to do, but that Congress was not authorized by the Constitution to do that. He suggested a private subsription be established to raise a charitable contribution from those that desired to make one, and to not take money from people who do not desire to contribute.

    Regarding #2, your election does not prove any supposition that you know what is best for your constituents and the city, but that you will consider input from all sides and decide which action provides the most good for your constituents and the city. Hopefully that will be done based on rational consideration and not on instructions received from a Ouija board or mere membership in a political party - although both those latter have been cited as reasons for decisionmaking.

    As for the specific issue you reference it seems that adherence to #1 and #2 above would hinge on steering the city away from the expenses of potential litigation and possible settelents/penalties being imposed.

    Hope this review of what I recall from a civics class taken many, many years ago is helpful to you.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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  7. #7
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    All good advice and I'm thankful for it. I've made 3 promises and 3 promises only. 1) To do the best I can. 2) To stand for what's right, even if I stand alone. 3) To speak my mind even if my voice shakes in doing so. That's all I can and will promise to the people.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    [QUOTE=self preservation;2108851]All good advice <snip>


    OK, future millionaire !!!

    Don't forget to get all those kickbacks ...

    Har, just kidding ,... enjoy speaking with the "people" ; you'll find out most of them are idiots who want the gov't to wipe their butts for them...

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    All of the financial details that you deal with - you want to know your Town finance director is a straight shooter and knows what (s)he is talking about.
    Budgets w/b primarily town spending, but when you get into pensions and shared services 'co-ops' with other towns or state sponsored pooling of purchases, health insurance and what-not, make sure you know that your finance director is experienced. For instance - how much pension cost does town incur? Current vested benefits and/or future obligations. What are assumptions on expected earning on investments - I know up until a few years ago you would say the pension would earn '8%' on their assets - world we are living in today w/b more like 3-4%. That change would double the amount of CASH/TAXES required to fund pensions - current and those of current employees before they retire. You might look at providing benefits like for-profit companies do - defined contribution plans like 401k, vs defined benefits plans which are enormously expensive to taxpayers. If you have a sharp finance director that can outline what the savings w/b to taxpayers - it would be HUGE. Welcome to the real world government employees - just like the 'real world' has been doing for the past 30 years.

    Pensions and health insurance items are things that can sneak up and bite you (meaning taxpayers) in the butt in a HUGE way. You want to have a sharp finance director that knows about this stuff and can advise town council in a realistic manner. Our town has outsourced a lot of jobs that used t/b done by town employees - like garbage, parks, street paving - turned out town had high employee turnover, so the generous pay & benefits was going to waste - 'for profit' companies did it much cheaper than town.

    You also want to know which other town council members are savvy with finance as well. When you have facts lined up in irrefutable presentation, it is hard to argue 'but being excessively generous to union employees that contribute to my campaigns' are worth sticking it to the hardworking property owner and taxpayer.
    Last edited by HPmatt; 11-09-2014 at 09:49 PM.
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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    SNIP... anything that I need to be mindful of? Any advice from you wiser folks will be appreciated considering I will have no idea what I'm doing come January 1.
    Congrats. For advice: "Don't take bribes!"

    In all seriousness, and adding to what others have said, please READ the bills/petitions and do not allow yourself to be swayed by emotional appeals.

    Best of luck. And remember, we'll be watching you.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    I have nothing to contribute that hasn't already been addressed, but I wanted to say congrats on the election.

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    1st official act:

    Obtaining 20 MRADS from that free federal program ... one for every 100 persons ...


    Now they'll feel safe. OR ELSE

    har har har

  13. #13
    Regular Member Sir Diealotz's Avatar
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    Congratulations and good luck.
    Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property... Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.

    Thomas Paine

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    Not really RKBA related, but I recently got elected to city council in my town. A few years back I addressed some illegal signage on city buildings using 65.870, a concealed ordinance was later attempted and failed, I'm familiar enough with "home rule" to argue against it if it is ever attempted to be used where not applicable, but I wonder that now I will be sitting on "the other side" if there is anything that I need to be mindful of? Any advice from you wiser folks will be appreciated considering I will have no idea what I'm doing come January 1.
    Can you OC in council chambers and if so will you? What a clear message that would send.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Can you OC in council chambers and if so will you? What a clear message that would send.
    Don't quote me on this Grapeshot (I'm one state away from Kentucky and not as well versed) but I think OC would be okay there if the same building isn't also used for court stuff.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    "I screwed around and got elected"

    **pregnant pause**

    Could be worse. Congrats!

  17. #17
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    OC is not prohibited in local government meetings, as long as the building is not otherwise prohibited, ie court facility. CC is not allowed, by statute, in meetings of the legislative body of a city or county. Also, cities and counties may prohibit OC in all of their buildings. These restrictions on CC would not apply to members of the legislative body(with proper license), except in the instance of court facilities.
    I assume that you meant to put the word "not" after the above bolded word?
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    1st official act:

    Obtaining 20 MRADS from that free federal program ... one for every 100 persons ...


    Now they'll feel safe. OR ELSE

    har har har

    I'm thinking... one for each person!
    Chuck Norris/Ted Nugent That's the ticket for 2016!

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    Crockett put his money where his mouth was...

    As I recall, he volunteered to be first to donate his Congressional pay to the widow; his fellow legislators were not so munificent.

    Also, be very careful, downright wary, of any possible conflicts of interest. If it even MIGHT look bad, don't do it.


    "My favorite example of #1 is David Crocket's (TN) opposition to a bill to provide a $100,000 pension to the widow of Commodore Stephen Decatur. He said providing for widows was a good thing to do, but that Congress was not authorized by the Constitution to do that. He suggested a private subscription be established to raise a charitable contribution from those that desired to make one, and to not take money from people who do not desire to contribute."

  20. #20
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    Not really RKBA related, but I recently got elected to city council in my town. A few years back I addressed some illegal signage on city buildings using 65.870, a concealed ordinance was later attempted and failed, I'm familiar enough with "home rule" to argue against it if it is ever attempted to be used where not applicable, but I wonder that now I will be sitting on "the other side" if there is anything that I need to be mindful of? Any advice from you wiser folks will be appreciated considering I will have no idea what I'm doing come January 1.
    What is your definition of "right?"

    Congratulations and good luck.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    He should get some anti-aircraft guns to counter the evil drones people have now ... cost? $3.95 no tax.

    Har har....

  22. #22
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    Congratulation. I don't think you will need a lot of advice. If you stick to the 3 promises above, you will successfully deal with almost any problem. I will give you one piece of advice, get a copy of "Ky. League of Cities Official Legal Handbook". It has an amazing amount of information in it. I am constantly surprised at the stuff that city council members don't know, that they could easily find out with this book. They are just too lazy to look it up. The city may already have one. If they do, it probably has never been opened. Ask the Mayor to get one, or just buy one yourself. It will pay for itself in no time. There is a big discount for city officials. I have found the people at KLC to be very helpful. You should get to know both Andrea Shindelbower and J.D.Caney(J.D is a no BS, straight shooting kind of guy; you'll like him). They can be a great help to you. I'd bet the others would not bother to pick up the phone to ask a question. They are probably too smart to ask any questions. These two things will make you a "city legal expert" in no time. You will be Mayor soon. Now, for your biggest problem, is anybody there aware that you are acquainted with Drake? Was he your campaign manager?
    Thanks, I will most certainly get a copy of the above mentioned book. As far as Drake, he has went into hiding on me.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  23. #23
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    What is your definition of "right?"

    Congratulations and good luck.
    That is the $64.000 question at times. I fully understand that I was elected to represent the citizens of my city as a whole and not just my wishes, but I'm sure that I will face some of those tricky situations eventually. I guess for starters I would consider "right" to be dictated by morality and ethnics. For one I would have to ask myself "does this vote violate the state or U.S. Constitution?......Will anyone be victimized by this vote?......Is this vote really the will of the citizens or the "will" of bigger money or special interest groups?.." I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around the whole thing, but no doubt I will learn as I go.

    Take taxation for example: I'm sure the issue will require my vote at some point in time. I fully realize that raising taxes is a double edged sword that is going to cut your head off no matter which way you swing it. But I also believe that reasonable taxation is a necessary evil. Without taxes we (I'm only speaking of my city in this context) wouldn't have paved roads, road crews to clean and salt said roads in the winter, we would have no police or fire coverage, etc. But at the same that modest tax increase of $10.00 per month that may go practically unnoticed by many, may very well be detrimental to some families. (ie: elderly, below the poverty line, individuals that are simply finding themselves in tough times, etc)

    If you vote no on the tax increase then you may very well be a temporary hero.....until the roads are riddled with pot holes and now you are a SOB because you haven't fixed them. Kind of like the having your cake and eating it too story. So in closing, who the hell knows?
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  24. #24
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnfenter View Post
    As I recall, he volunteered to be first to donate his Congressional pay to the widow; his fellow legislators were not so munificent.

    Also, be very careful, downright wary, of any possible conflicts of interest. If it even MIGHT look bad, don't do it.


    "My favorite example of #1 is David Crocket's (TN) opposition to a bill to provide a $100,000 pension to the widow of Commodore Stephen Decatur. He said providing for widows was a good thing to do, but that Congress was not authorized by the Constitution to do that. He suggested a private subscription be established to raise a charitable contribution from those that desired to make one, and to not take money from people who do not desire to contribute."
    This post cracked me up a little because the gentlemen that you refer to and I may share the same last name.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  25. #25
    Regular Member BurgerBoy's Avatar
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    Congrats!
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