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Thread: Need help on a subject

  1. #1
    Regular Member papa24ofu's Avatar
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    Need help on a subject

    I recently went to a US Law Shield seminar at the SOR in Moore, OK. The first 30 minutres was a plug for his gun range. The instructor really slammed open carry....

    His two points used to slam open carry were 1) first ones to get shot 2) someone will grab your gun

    My question is: Is there any documented cases of either ever happening?


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    There is a reward for documentation of a simple straight-forward gun grab of an open carrier. One of the moderators here may speak up.

    I don't know about being shot first.

    I carry a gun, concealed or openly, to remind myself, as much as anyother reason, of my greater love for my fellows. When I run the scenarios in my mind, it is always of having the courage to advance through gun fire despite wounds.

    Just now I am picking unburned powder off my hands - they smell good - from my Garand saluting piecs.
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    Regular Member papa24ofu's Avatar
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    Thank you for the reply. I am a avid OC. This instructor is a retired OHP. He offered his opinion to a class of about 50 people without giving any kind of facts supporting his opinion. What upset me the most was how many took his opinion as law and because of that won't even consider OC now.

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    Regular Member papa24ofu's Avatar
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    Also this has been the most negative OC I have ever had.

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    Quote Originally Posted by papa24ofu View Post
    I recently went to a US Law Shield seminar at the SOR in Moore, OK. The first 30 minutres was a plug for his gun range. The instructor really slammed open carry....

    His two points used to slam open carry were 1) first ones to get shot 2) someone will grab your gun

    My question is: Is there any documented cases of either ever happening?


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    I would have stood up and walked out. Just another person who uses their opinion as best practice. If he's that ignorant, how can you trust anything else that comes out of his mouth?

    Was the instructor plugging his range? If so, what's the range? I want to be sure not to accidentally support him.
    Last edited by Arin Morris; 11-11-2014 at 01:45 PM.

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    Regular Member papa24ofu's Avatar
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    I agree. My wife is also OCer and she was there with me. And we were not there for anything to do with him. It just happened to be where the US Law Shield siminar was held. And that is why we were there. So you can bet that I would have walked out.

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    Regular Member papa24ofu's Avatar
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    SOR in moor ok.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa24ofu View Post
    I recently went to a US Law Shield seminar at the SOR in Moore, OK. The first 30 minutres was a plug for his gun range. The instructor really slammed open carry....

    His two points used to slam open carry were 1) first ones to get shot 2) someone will grab your gun

    My question is: Is there any documented cases of either ever happening?
    Both are essentially old wives tales or if you prefer urban legends. The challenges were made many years ago, but not a single report has ever survived close scrutiny in either instance. They read as follows:

    • Show me one confirmable instance with cites where an OCer has been preemptively taken out, first to be shot, anywhere in these United States in modern times. Military, law enforcement and security officers are excluded.
    • Show me one confirmable instance with cites where someone open carrying a handgun in a holster had their gun snatched anywhere in these United States in modern times. Military, law enforcement and security officers are excluded.

    Could either of these occur someday? Without a doubt, but when one does happen the resultant numerical ratio will look something like .00001% Those are odds with which I can live.
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa24ofu View Post
    SOR in moor ok.
    Thanks. Didn't realize there was a range in that little strip mall. I'll steer clear.

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    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa24ofu View Post
    I recently went to a US Law Shield seminar at the SOR in Moore, OK. The first 30 minutres was a plug for his gun range. The instructor really slammed open carry....

    His two points used to slam open carry were 1) first ones to get shot 2) someone will grab your gun

    My question is: Is there any documented cases of either ever happening?


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    While to my knowledge there has been no documented case Open Carry is relatively new these days after an extensive prohibition in most places. While it is entirely possible it could happen (Anything is possible) you counter and minimize those risk by simply training and preparing for the possibility of it happening.

    There are many cases documented of officers having this happen but since OPEN Carry is relatively new we have not had any case like that happen.

    Now before haters hit I am only speaking my opinion and FULLY support Open Carry.

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    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa24ofu View Post
    Thank you for the reply. I am a avid OC. This instructor is a retired OHP. He offered his opinion to a class of about 50 people without giving any kind of facts supporting his opinion. What upset me the most was how many took his opinion as law and because of that won't even consider OC now.
    Sadly thats a problem with the general population. Many seek advice from others and I have witnessed so many times over bad advice given and yet it etches in the mind of the person who seeks the advice. I have seen advice that will surely land people in jail or in court. As a result I no longer debate the issue but instead simply post the statute and leave.

    This is one of the biggest problems is people seek advice from people who appear to be an expert on Open Carry or any carry and they get burned.
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    Regular Member papa24ofu's Avatar
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    I want to personally thank everyone for your professional and educated response to my question. You all confirmed what I already thought. If I am ever confronted with that statement again I want to be able to give a informative answer that wouldn't cause anymore damage to OC as that instructor did in his original statement. Thanks again and let's all carry on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by papa24ofu View Post
    I want to personally thank everyone for your professional and educated response to my question. You all confirmed what I already thought. If I am ever confronted with that statement again I want to be able to give a informative answer that wouldn't cause anymore damage to OC as that instructor did in his original statement. Thanks again and let's all carry on.
    It may be that more people shoot themselves when getting their gun out of concealment .. why do cops OC?
    Likely the reason. They shoot themselves enough when OCing .. the streets would be littered with dead cops' corpses if they had to draw from concealment.

    I'm not a teacher .. I would have just told the guy he's a moron and let it end at that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    It may be that more people shoot themselves when getting their gun out of concealment .. why do cops OC?
    Likely the reason. They shoot themselves enough when OCing .. the streets would be littered with dead cops' corpses if they had to draw from concealment.

    I'm not a teacher .. I would have just told the guy he's a moron and let it end at that.
    Due to the needs of an officer it would be impractical to conceal carry everything he has to carry. For this reason everything is worn on a duty rig which in itself would be nearly impossible to conceal if at all.

    The role of a police officer is quiet different then the roll of a civilian giving a different need then a civilian. Not less or more important just different. Its important to remember not to confuse the roles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock 1st fan View Post
    Due to the needs of an officer it would be impractical to conceal carry everything he has to carry. For this reason everything is worn on a duty rig which in itself would be nearly impossible to conceal if at all.

    The role of a police officer is quiet different then the roll of a civilian giving a different need then a civilian. Not less or more important just different. Its important to remember not to confuse the roles.
    Well a cop has to carry a gun, a throw-away gun, a second throw-away gun, a hammer for smashing recording devices, a second hammer for smashing recording devices in case his first one breaks, etc....

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Well a cop has to carry a gun, a throw-away gun, a second throw-away gun, a hammer for smashing recording devices, a second hammer for smashing recording devices in case his first one breaks, etc....
    I use the hammer as a back up throw away weapon.
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Well a cop has to carry a gun, a throw-away gun, a second throw-away gun, a hammer for smashing recording devices, a second hammer for smashing recording devices in case his first one breaks, etc....
    Not really. Recording devices today are computer based so you blue tooth them a virus in many cases lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock 1st fan View Post
    Due to the needs of an officer it would be impractical to conceal carry everything he has to carry. For this reason everything is worn on a duty rig which in itself would be nearly impossible to conceal if at all.

    The role of a police officer is quiet different then the roll of a civilian giving a different need then a civilian. Not less or more important just different. Its important to remember not to confuse the roles.
    Plain clothed detectives/officers do not seem to have any issues, that I know of. They continue to perform their duties with far fewer accoutrements than their uniformed counterparts. How can this be? Unless these plain clothed cops do not engage the segment of our society that commit unacceptable and egregious criminal acts. May be nothing more than a numbers game. Then again, if cops did not look like cops then there may be more bad guys who get caught in the act of committing their monstrous criminal acts.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Whether I'm CC or OC, I've developed a very aware mindset.
    With the increased responsibility of carrying, I am instinctively aware of my surroundings and would bet money on the fact that I would see a threat before that threat sees me. It's become 2nd nature.
    On getting my weapon taken from me, no one gets into my personal space without my approval. As long as I have two feet and can adjust my stance, turn or do whatever I have to in order to protect my carry side, that just wont happen.
    If you're anything like me, you'll start paying more attention to your surroundings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by okvallier View Post
    My 2
    Whether I'm CC or OC, I've developed a very aware mindset.
    With the increased responsibility of carrying, I am instinctively aware of my surroundings and would bet money on the fact that I would see a threat before that threat sees me. It's become 2nd nature.
    On getting my weapon taken from me, no one gets into my personal space without my approval. As long as I have two feet and can adjust my stance, turn or do whatever I have to in order to protect my carry side, that just wont happen.
    If you're anything like me, you'll start paying more attention to your surroundings.
    Very true. I like this post because its very much informative. Carrying a firearm is a right but one that should be taken serious not only in ability to excercise but also in training. I recommend everyone keep training because accidents happen when people dont prepare.

    Very informative post and thank you!
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    I prefer not to carry openly my reason is, that I am aware that many do not share my love for firearms and prefer not to upset anyone. Not liking IWB holsters I do have my gun on my hip with a shirt covering it. The reason I like the OC law is that I am not taking a chance on exposing the gun and breaking a law for exposing it. You can indeed see it below some of the shirts I choose. The only people that have taken notice are also gun owners. I do explain my preference in class and my reason why when asked.

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    Regular Member okiephlyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1-LM View Post
    I prefer not to carry openly my reason is, that I am aware that many do not share my love for firearms and prefer not to upset anyone. Not liking IWB holsters I do have my gun on my hip with a shirt covering it. The reason I like the OC law is that I am not taking a chance on exposing the gun and breaking a law for exposing it. You can indeed see it below some of the shirts I choose. The only people that have taken notice are also gun owners. I do explain my preference in class and my reason why when asked.
    First, welcome to the forum. It has been a little slow around here for a while and some new blood might help get things rolling again.
    Second, While I, and others welcome you here, I wonder why you are here if you do not prefer OC. (I am NOT trying to get you to leave or to change your mind.) This forum is for the promotion of, education of, support of, etc, OC. Not that any one here advocates for only OC, (most will say that OC, CC, or no C, whatever you are comfortable with, is what you need to do) but that is the prime reason we are all here.
    Third, my experience carrying OC since Nov. 1, 2012 has been that only once has anyone been upset, and dozens have voiced support, or at least valid positive curiosity. The more people see OC'ers going about their daily lives in a normal manner, the more positive the whole OC thing will become.
    Last edited by okiephlyer; 01-04-2015 at 11:41 AM. Reason: i can't spell

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    Regular Member Glock 1st fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okiephlyer View Post
    my experience carrying OC since Nov. 1, 2012 has been that only once has anyone been upset.
    oddly i carry on duty in uniform duty rig and all and have heard people complain. there are those who would spend 1 dollar on a powerball ticket and win 1 million dollars. instead of being happy they just walked away with 750K they would complain and go all out to show they are mad the government took 250K. some people are just never happy.
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