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Never hit a woman ??? Crazies at McDs - too late 4 breakfast - go crazy

FreeInAZ

FreeInAZ

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Secret Bunker
Look folks - we are all about Rights correct? So to say the man had no right to peacefully express his objections (or make himself liable) is troubling. Even more troubling is lowly lower courts appear to have ruled in such a way. I, you and any other citizen has the right to speak their mind. As do we also have the right to defend ourselves.

Our country has slid towards the toilet even farther - if we cannot exercise these rights without fear.

My point earlier in this tortured thread was simply, if more people stood up for each other, we might have a better planet to live on.

Criminals love the empowerment that they receive from the non action of the general public. It allows them to act freely for the most part often. :( So doing nothing - is actually doing something, making criminals lives easier...and thus ours more dangerous one could extrapolate. Sad times indeed or lack there of we live in. :(
 
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Logan 5

Logan 5

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Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
696
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Utah
Except...you guys are missing the important piece to the puzzle is not present- where is the audio? What did he say?
 
marshaul

marshaul

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Aug 13, 2007
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Fairfax County, Virginia
I had a teacher in (public) high school throw a chair at me once. My act of "provocation" was being late to his 7:20 AM intro to engineering class.

(To be fair, the chair fell a foot or so short of actually hitting me.)
 
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J

JoeSparky

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Jun 20, 2008
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Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
marshaul said:
I'm sorry skid, I'm not prepared to accept your undefended conflation of "not walking on eggshells around louts" with "provocation", in legalese or in plain language.

Folks have every right to politely ask louts to calm down without being considered in "provocation". "Provocation" isn't anything which just so happens to set off a belligerent lout, as you seem to believe it is.

Even the case law you provided doesn't support this conflation. In each and every case, the defendant/appellant was, themselves, acting like a lout (if not actively threatening another).

Share some precedent which even remotely corresponds to the incident at hand and I might start to agree.

Furthermore, I've never suggested that interjection is a "good idea" for those intending to defend themselves as a last resort. I simply don't accept that a polite reprimand constitutes "provocation" to any degree.

If you can provide precedent which counters this last, then I'm quite comfortable arguing the need for legislative reform.

Quite simply, skid, the way you want to have it is abhorrent, and I reject it. By your unqualified definition, I cannot defend myself should I be attacked after the color of my shirt "provokes" an assault by a gang who prefers an opposing color. Utter tripe.

There is no duty to walk on eggsells around louts, nor should there be. Furthermore, a polite request ipso facto does not constitute reasonable "provocation". Those are the arguments you have you counter, not the straw man you demolished so ably.
Click to expand...

I hope Marshaul will forgive me for using his post as a jumping in point to say this.....

For one looking to be provoked, take offense, or get pissed--- No matter what YOU do or NOT DO, they will find which they are looking to find!
 
davidmcbeth

davidmcbeth

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Messages
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earth's crust
Nightmare said:
'65 HS Sr. English teacher was was a dead shot with a chalkboard eraser to wake dozers. It left a beautiful mark. The Sisters at the church school still used rulers on recalcitrant knuckles. Again, provocation is in the eye of the beholder. SHUN ICKY provocative people.
Click to expand...

Even at public schools, I recall one that had long metal poles to open the window transoms with ... ka-boing !!!

And the Brothers would just pound ya in the christian school.

They both have changed over the years.
 
Primus

Primus

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Location
United States
davidmcbeth said:
Even at public schools, I recall one that had long metal poles to open the window transoms with ... ka-boing !!!

And the Brothers would just pound ya in the christian school.

They both have changed over the years.
Click to expand...
The brothers did what?
 
F

FlyBoy276

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
Messages
144
Location
Raleigh
Logan 5 said:
...Can you walk in a park and go up and kick someone's pitbull and then shoot it because it's attacking you? I doubt it. Flyboy276, I can think of other ways to describe it, but if you're one of those that can't figure it out by now, then the problem is not this subject.
Click to expand...

Saying, "Ma'am, calm down.." to someone causing a public disturbance is not the same as randomly kicking someone's dog. One is assault, one isn't. I'm certain a jury of my peers would think the same. If someone says something to you that you don't like, you don't get to assault them and expect to not face the probable consequences of your actions. Ask Michael Brown.

Do we no longer have a 1st and 2nd Amendment to our Constitution, or did our Supreme Ayatollah decide to erase those along with our southern border?
 
F

FlyBoy276

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
Messages
144
Location
Raleigh
Nightmare said:
Kicking a dog is not an assault or battery.
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IANAL. Whatever the legal definition of the action is, you know what I mean. Cruelty to animals is a crime.

I refuse to believe that a judge and jury will convict someone for defending themselves after a comment to the attacker caused them to assault them. I mean, if the guy said, "You [witches] need to sit down and **** before something bad happens to you!", that may be a different story. Unfortunately, I have not heard what the gentleman said that warranted having dining room furniture hurled at him.
 
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davidmcbeth

davidmcbeth

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earth's crust
FlyBoy276 said:
<snip>

Do we no longer have a 1st and 2nd Amendment to our Constitution, or did our Supreme Ayatollah decide to erase those along with our southern border?
Click to expand...

Well, I was recently kicked out of my state capitol bldg for handing out political literature .... so someone decided to erase that one (1st)/(or at least tried)

and a recent case opinion regarding obstruction v free speech, just a FYI

https://efast.gaappeals.us/download?filingId=6a0599dd-4a4c-45c2-98f3-7c8fd252d04b
 
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F

FlyBoy276

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
Messages
144
Location
Raleigh
davidmcbeth said:
Well, I was recently kicked out of my state capitol bldg for handing out political literature .... so someone decided to erase that one (1st)/(or at least tried)

and a recent case opinion regarding obstruction v free speech, just a FYI

https://efast.gaappeals.us/download?filingId=6a0599dd-4a4c-45c2-98f3-7c8fd252d04b
Click to expand...

The majority concedes that the only acts that could possibly constitute “something more” that just speech were Johnson’s failure to calm down when asked to do so and his refusal to leave the property. In other words, he did not shut up and leave. But it was the officer’s choice to stop what he was doing and remonstrate with Johnson. And when the officer ordered Johnson to be quiet and go away or he would be arrested, Johnson’s response was to turn around, put his hands together, and tell the officer to go ahead and jail him but that would not change the illegality of the search. That is hardly an act of obstruction. It is an act of protest. For these reasons, I respectfully dissent to the majority opinion. I am authorized to state that Judge Miller joined in this dissent.
Click to expand...

^ Nice.
 
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