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Thread: Open Carry at St. Clair County Community College?

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    Open Carry at St. Clair County Community College?

    I attend SC4, but I can't carry there do to their illegal policy banning carry because I don't want to get expelled, however, yesterday my English professor starts class with an announcement that certain students have been lobbying that the policy be amended to allow for Open Carry. I had planned to raise the issue myself next semester, but it appears someone may have beaten me to it. Is it someone here? If so I would like to get together to coordinate.

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    No idea who, but with a little detective work, you should be able to follow the announcement back to its source and then find out that way. Good luck and keep us updated!

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    Small world, I'm sitting in the CEM Building right now. I would like to know who it is as well. This is the first I've heard of it.
    Last edited by jrj_51; 11-19-2014 at 12:42 PM.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    That's 3,

    Find yourselves a Spock and you've got an away team.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    The wording of the community colleges act essentially gives the board sweeping unconstitutional power, so preemption does not apply. Your options essentially involve a very long and costly court battle or trying to convince the board to obey the constitution. Success is unlikely either way, but good luck just the same.
    Last edited by Michigander; 11-19-2014 at 01:02 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrj_51 View Post
    Small world, I'm sitting in the CEM Building right now. I would like to know who it is as well. This is the first I've heard of it.
    I'm over in the arts building listening to the presentations. Come say hi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    The wording of the community colleges act essentially gives the board sweeping unconstitutional power, so preemption does not apply. Your options essentially involve a very long and costly court battle or trying to convince the board to obey the constitution. Success is unlikely either way, but good luck just the same.
    Cite? I have only heard of the big three being exempt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    I'm over in the arts building listening to the presentations. Come say hi.
    I would, but I'm stuck in chemistry. How's tomorrow?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrj_51 View Post
    I would, but I'm stuck in chemistry. How's tomorrow?

    In class all day tomorrow, but I have a few long breaks.

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    I've got a bit of a break from 1:15-2:00 tomorrow. If not, Mon I have a big break around noon.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    It's a very long law, I will pull it up when I get home.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    It's a very long law, I will pull it up when I get home.
    Its not a good idea to post the ENTIRE wording on this forum it would get ridiculous in a hurry, so what I'll do is post links to the entire thing for your enjoyment, and Michigander can locate the 'relevant' parts for you later if you are unable to do so by then. ;-D

    Community College Act [Act 331] of 1966 | Part 1
    Community College Act [Act 331] of 1966 | Part 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrj_51 View Post
    I've got a bit of a break from 1:15-2:00 tomorrow. If not, Mon I have a big break around noon.
    That's right in the middle of my Soc class. I'll have to find out if I'm off Monday, if I am I usually hang out around the library writing papers.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    EC, and others who have it, its in my book in appendix a. If someone is in the mood, pull it up. Not gonna bother right now on my phone.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Small_Arms_Collector View Post
    That's right in the middle of my Soc class. I'll have to find out if I'm off Monday, if I am I usually hang out around the library writing papers.
    Ok. Just let me know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrj_51 View Post
    Ok. Just let me know.
    OK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    EC, and others who have it, its in my book in appendix a. If someone is in the mood, pull it up. Not gonna bother right now on my phone.
    Not what I'm seeing:

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(ig4...me=mcl-18-1115

    MCL 18.1115:

    Sec. 115.

    (1) "Institution of higher education" or "university" means a state supported 4-year college or university.

    (2) "JCOS" means the joint capital outlay subcommittee of the appropriations committees.

    (3) Except as used in sections 284 to 292, "record" means a public record as defined in section 2 of the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.232.

    (4) "State agency" means a department, board, commission, office, agency, authority, or other unit of state government. State agency does not include an institution of higher education or a community college or, for purposes of article 2 or 3, the legislative branch of government. For purposes of article 2 or 3, except for those sections pertaining to the authorization, planning, construction, and funding of a capital outlay project, including construction of a facility to house offices or functions necessary for operation of the judicial branch of government, state agency does not include the judicial branch of government.

    (5) "Unit of local government" means a political subdivision of this state, including school districts, community college districts, intermediate school districts, cities, villages, townships, counties, and authorities, if the political subdivision has as its primary purpose the providing of local governmental service for citizens in a geographically limited area of the state and has the power to act primarily on behalf of that area.

    Now check MCL 123.1102

  18. #18
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Definitions from one law are not directly applicable to another law.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    I've got it here

    Quote Originally Posted by Open Carry Michigan Handbook - Second Edition | Appendix A, Exhibit 9A
    EXHIBIT 9 A COMMUNITY COLLEGES ACT
    Community Colleges Act. Act 331 of 1966
    MCL 389.125 Board of trustees; payment of claims against community college district; gifts; bylaws.
    Sec. 125.
    The board of trustees may:

    (a) Certify to the treasurer of the community college district for payment out of the funds thereof all claims and demands against the board or community college district, which shall be allowed by the board under rules and regulations it may establish.

    (b) Borrow money or other property and accept contributions, capital grants, gifts, donations, services or other financial assistance from the United States of America or any agency or instrumentality thereof.

    (c) Accept by gift or devise private property. They may accept from any county, township or other governmental unit any contribution authorized by its governing body as provided in sections 791 to 795 of Act No. 269 of the Public Acts of 1955, as amended, being sections 340.791 to 340.795 of the Compiled Laws of 1948. They shall likewise be entitled to receive from the state all grants of state aid, in the same manner and proportion, as any other community college.

    (d) Adopt bylaws, rules and regulations for its own government and for the control and government of the community college district.

    (e) Acquire and hold in the name of the district all real property and improvements acquired and erected under the provisions of this act.

    (f) To do all other things in its judgment necessary for the proper establishment, maintenance, management and carrying on of the community college.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    I've got it here
    Still don't think it applies, other local units of government may adopt rules, and bylaws for their own governance as well, yet they are still local units of government.

    We also have the CADL decision saying that preemption was intended to "occupy the field."

  21. #21
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    There may be something there if you have the funds. Even without what you said the law is broadly out of line, and I've never believed the law as written would stand up to a full on legal challenge if done right, because as I said years ago it essentially gives them the authority to tear gas random classrooms to keep students fearful and obedient. It's an absurd idea, but those are the same straws they are grasping at to ban gun carry. Whether or not gun rights are restored in community colleges, the law is stunningly devoid of civil rights protection, and badly needs challenging.

    I wish you guys well in your efforts.
    Last edited by Michigander; 11-20-2014 at 12:31 PM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    I wonder how an Open Carry rally by non-students in support of this issue would be handled? They can't expell someone who isn't enrolled. Would 123.1102 not cover everyone involved? Students could carry just off of school property. Non students would be free to march wherever. Just throwing out the idea.
    "God created man, Sam Colt made them equal."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hevymetal View Post
    I wonder how an Open Carry rally by non-students in support of this issue would be handled? They can't expell someone who isn't enrolled. Would 123.1102 not cover everyone involved? Students could carry just off of school property. Non students would be free to march wherever. Just throwing out the idea.
    It's a good idea.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    i attend oakland community college. i was told by at least 2 well respected firearms attorneys here in michigan that community colleges can't regulate non-students and that they can't do anything to you legally. however, if you're a student they CAN subject you to the code of conduct and kick you out anyway.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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