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Another Rookie Cop, Another Tragic End to Life

MAC702

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The rookie officer saw a black gun sitting on the table, and he saw the boy pick up the gun and put it in his waistband, Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association President Jeffrey Follmer said.

The officer got out of the car and told the boy to put his hands up. The boy reached into his waistband, pulled out the gun and the rookie officer fired two shots, Tomba said.

Not even the same ballpark for types of incidents.

The article you cited did not say the boy died yet.
 
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MAC702

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"When an officer gives a command, we expect it to be followed," Tomba said.

There's the crux of their justification. IMO

Granted, but this is a case of "put your hands up" and the kid going for the already-seen gun instead.

Hard to put the cop in prison over this one.
 

ODAAT

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Not even the same ballpark for types of incidents.

The article you cited did not say the boy died yet.

thank you - I clearly jumped too fast on this one. Edited original post, don't know how to edit the title...
 

davidmcbeth

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Granted, but this is a case of "put your hands up" and the kid going for the already-seen gun instead.

Hard to put the cop in prison over this one.

A 12yr old boy?

Look, the law says he cannot even have a gun .. so the cop should rely upon that and come to the conclusion that its a bb-gun or something of a similar nature.

I would have zero problems with a guilty verdict and hanging.
 

MAC702

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A 12yr old boy?

Look, the law says he cannot even have a gun .. so the cop should rely upon that and come to the conclusion that its a bb-gun or something of a similar nature.

I would have zero problems with a guilty verdict and hanging.

Cops have been shot and killed by 12-year old boys with real firearms.
 

HPmatt

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headline below article says 12 y/o boy died


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

HolyOrangeJuice

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A 12yr old boy?

Look, the law says he cannot even have a gun .. so the cop should rely upon that and come to the conclusion that its a bb-gun or something of a similar nature.

I would have zero problems with a guilty verdict and hanging.

Wow with that logic no one does drugs or shoots up a gun free zone right?
 

Ken56

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Just maybe the kid was mentally challenged.....autistic or retarded and couldn't immediately respond to the officers commands. This comply or die attitude seems to be born out of how they are being trained today. Everything I have read on this the boy took it out of his waist band but did not point it at the officers. Is that the level of threat we can all base a defensive response on? If that were a citizen that thought he was in imminent danger of being shot where do you think he would be right now? Oh yeah, they are different than us. I forgot.
 

MAC702

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Just maybe the kid was mentally challenged.....autistic or retarded and couldn't immediately respond to the officers commands. This comply or die attitude seems to be born out of how they are being trained today. Everything I have read on this the boy took it out of his waist band but did not point it at the officers. Is that the level of threat we can all base a defensive response on? If that were a citizen that thought he was in imminent danger of being shot where do you think he would be right now? Oh yeah, they are different than us. I forgot.

You guys know I am not pro cop.

But regardless of the arrogant statements made afterward, that's not what happened here.

The kid did not ignore the cop. The kid did not run away. The kid PULLED A GUN after being told to put his hands up for what was a probable cause for detainment.

Now, if there were mental issues involved, that doesn't make it any less potentially life-saving to shoot first. We used to put mentally ill people in asylums. Now we put them on the street because the asylums weren't done properly and were too expensive.

I feel a regular civilian would have been justified in these circumstances as well, though a regular civilian would also probably need justification for attempting to detain someone.
 
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sudden valley gunner

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You guys know I am not pro cop.

But regardless of the arrogant statements made afterward, that's not what happened here.

The kid did not ignore the cop. The kid did not run away. The kid PULLED A GUN after being told to put his hands up for what was a probable cause for detainment.

Now, if there were mental issues involved, that doesn't make it any less potentially life-saving to shoot first. We used to put mentally ill people in asylums. Now we put them on the street because the asylums weren't done properly and were too expensive.

I feel a regular civilian would have been justified in these circumstances as well, though a regular civilian would also probably need justification for attempting to detain someone.

I think the only problem I have is would the same standard of defense apply to a non costumed mundane. (from the powers to be that is)
 

MKEgal

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The Truth said:
Why did the kid go for the weapon when asked to put his hands up by men with guns? Why didn't the kid communicate that it was a BB gun? ...
It's really hard not to get upset when it's a 12 year old with a BB gun, but how can you get mad at the cops when the kid pulled the gun instead of raising his hands?

... This isn't like the Crawford (WalMart BB gun) case at all.
Whaaaat? Yes, it's very like the Crawford case.
The person holding the gun didn't stop holding the gun when told to, and (apparently) instead did something which could reasonably be construed as threatening.
The guy in WM turned toward police with the rifle in hand instead of putting it down, the kid drew the pistol (which did not have the orange tip) after being told to keep his hands up - both deliberate actions.

article said:
the child did not threaten the officer verbally or physically
Um, yes he did. He pulled a gun.

And the kid did die, according to the article & the blurbs under the photos.
 

davidmcbeth

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You guys know I am not pro cop.

But regardless of the arrogant statements made afterward, that's not what happened here.

The kid did not ignore the cop. The kid did not run away. The kid PULLED A GUN after being told to put his hands up for what was a probable cause for detainment.
.

The kid did not pull a GUN ... just to make that clear. Hard to say if he was just going to hand it to them; he certainly wasn't thinking he was going to dispatch them.

Cops keep on doing this and the law will say : cops cannot shoot unless they have been shot upon and if they do then they shall be put on trial for homicide if the victim is killed.
 

wittmeba

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These two articles are by the same reporter.
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/cleveland_police_officer_shoot_6.html

This article indicates the kid died.
http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/12-year-old_boy_shot_by_clevel.html

I don't think all LEO's are good or bad. But I personally would hate to be one today. We want to believe that if someone points a gun at us we have a right to shoot in self defense. I don't see why that should be any different for LE. They can't wait to see if it is real and as posted above 12 year olds have killed too.
 
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