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Thread: Navy: Store guns of sailors at risk for suicide

  1. #1
    Regular Member Tricorn's Avatar
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    Navy: Store guns of sailors at risk for suicide

    Navy: Store guns of sailors at risk for suicide
    http://hamptonroads.com/2014/11/navy...s-risk-suicide

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    Yeah, I saw that. It's due to mission creep, sailors trying to be soldiers.

    Sailors belong on ships and ships belong at sea. If the Navy wanted you to have a wife then there would'a been one in your seabag.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Yeah, I saw that. It's due to mission creep, sailors trying to be soldiers.

    Sailors belong on ships and ships belong at sea. If the Navy wanted you to have a wife then there would'a been one in your seabag.
    Mission creep is a part of it, but you also need to factor in the back-to-back deployments of almost all the branches of the Armed Forces. Plus the institutional bias that still exists in all the services against a service member seeking mental health assistance.

    A surefire way to scuttle a promising career, be you officer or enlisted, is to admit to needing the services of a psychiatrist to treat for depression/PTSD/anxiety. It may not be reflected on your OER/NCOER, but the word will get up the chain of command that you sought help. I would just about bet good money that the person seeking help will not see another promotion and will be oh-so-subtly encouraged to get out.

    I am reliably informed that this bias has not changed since the days when I was Active Duty. And then the brass wonders why service members are committing suicide?

    Also willing to bet that any service member who turns in their guns under this program will both never see the weapons again and will also receive the same disgraceful treatment as those who seek treatment.
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Yeah, I saw that. It's due to mission creep, sailors trying to be soldiers.

    Sailors belong on ships and ships belong at sea. If the Navy wanted you to have a wife then there would'a been one in your seabag.
    What, exactly are you saying? Sailors don't handle firearms? Many qualify with pistol and rifle, and use them while underway. They aren't trying to be soldiers. They are doing the jobs they are assigned, because soldiers don't usually go to sea.

    These weapons are personal weapons. They don't deserve to defend themselves when they aren't underway?
    Hoka hey

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    More than half of Navy suicides involve guns.

    What's next .. turn in their neckties?

    The gun isn't the issue ...

    Still, suicides have increased, from 41 among active-duty sailors last year to 46 so far in 2014

    46 v 41 ? Likely not a significant increase...too small a # to place any reliance upon. But people see a number increase and start freaking out....undisciplined group.

    About 400,000 sailors ... so looking at 0.01 - 0.02 %.

    In 2011, 39,518 people died by suicide. (CDC) (http://www.save.org/index.cfm?fuseac...66462866FCB4E6)

    US Pop. about 300,000,000

    Overall rate = 0.013%

    Navy rate does not seem any different than overall population.

    So it may not be a "Navy" related issue at all ....

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    This is standard for those placed on suicide watch and live on base. Though in the Air Force when placed on suicide watch you also get a wingman assigned to you who's supposed to be there practically all the time. Not quite sure how they handlegoing to the bathroom, bathing, or sleeping though as I've never done it.

    I see nothing wrong in asking for them, to me the issue would be in ordering the person to turn them over.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Yeah, I saw that. It's due to mission creep, sailors trying to be soldiers.

    Sailors belong on ships and ships belong at sea. If the Navy wanted you to have a wife then there would'a been one in your seabag.
    The USMC relies upon the Navy corpsmen to go into harms way to treat the wounded. Since WWI the U.S. Navy hospital men have the highest MoH rate in the entire armed forces. Terrible job patching up those that are blown up day after day. Putting your life on the line without carrying a rifle to shoot back. Hell if I know why anybody would want that job. My brother did it for years. He is now an emergency room RN. Sailors go where the country needs them.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    The USMC relies upon the Navy corpsmen to go into harms way to treat the wounded. Since WWI the U.S. Navy hospital men have the highest MoH rate in the entire armed forces. Terrible job patching up those that are blown up day after day. Putting your life on the line without carrying a rifle to shoot back. Hell if I know why anybody would want that job. My brother did it for years. He is now an emergency room RN. Sailors go where the country needs them.
    Navy corpsman arent navy.... They are mini marines. Just like Docs in the infantry. They ate, shat, slept, walked, etc with us. Even would do battle drills and patrols. They weren't POGs. They were DOCs.
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Navy corpsman arent navy.... They are mini marines. Just like Docs in the infantry. They ate, shat, slept, walked, etc with us. Even would do battle drills and patrols. They weren't POGs. They were DOCs.
    Marines are part of the Dept. of the Navy...so ????
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 12-01-2014 at 12:34 AM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Marines are part of the Dept. of the Navy...so ????
    Yea..... Just like salvation army is part of regular army....
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The new guidance states that commanders "may inquire about, collect and record information about a service member's privately-owned firearms, ammunition or other weapons."


    Sailors shouldn't be coerced into handing over guns, it says, and they can ask for them back at any time.


    If a sailor doesn't want to relinquish a personal weapon, commanders can ask to store critical pieces or the key to a gun safety lock.
    ...may? ...shouldn't? ...can? I spent 20+ in the Navy and every time I was "volunteered" for X (your job...if you choose to accept it and you really have no choice), those three words were used very frequently. Never considered those "requests" as anything other than a "or else" request.

    Anyway, the Navy has special dispensation to infringe upon their employee's constitutional rights...to a point.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Yea..... Just like salvation army is part of regular army....
    The Salvation Army is not part of our military ... silly.

    The Dept. of the Navy includes the Marines. There is no Dept. of Marines.

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