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Thread: Do not Support HB 195 if you like beer

  1. #1
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    Do not Support HB 195 if you like beer

    I suggest you read this bill in it entirety! It will allow the LEO to knock on your door and arrest you only because you have had a few beers and own a handgun.

    If you are a hunter with a handgun and like to have few beers, you are subject to arrest. IN YOUR OWN HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Section (8) has changed to “while intoxicated” and the following section has been removed;

    "[(1) on the person's own premises, or premises under the
    person's control, or with permission of the premises owner;]"


    If this passes....as written....your are subject to arrest in your own home, our your friends home for possession of a handgun and having a few beers....


    Have it re-written....or do not support...

    Section (8) should be written as follows.......IMHO


    Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS.

    Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF A HANDGUN


    (a) A person in possession of a handgun
    commits an offense if they intentionally,
    knowingly, or recklessly carry a handgun on or about their person:

    (8) while intoxicated AND handles or uses such handgun in either a negligent
    or unlawful manner or discharges it other than in self-defense;

    We use the "word" of law to our defense......Don't think that the LEO won't use it to their offense.

    I want OC...but this bill is very flawed...FIX IT!!!

    Accepting a fee (CHL) to move things along is one thing, but to give the GOV the right to knock on my door and arrest me for nothing more than having a few beers and owning a handgun,,,,,,sorry...if there was ever a definition for tyranny.....this would be that.

    As it is written, I cannot accept or support this bill...
    Last edited by zekester; 11-28-2014 at 03:18 PM.
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  2. #2
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    How about just don't open your ******* door? With current CHL laws, if you have a CHL, they could still try to nail you on your own property for being in possession while intoxicated, if they wanted to. You might be able to beat it in court, but you'd have to have a good lawyer. And if the licensed OC bill passes, it'd be the same scenario.

    No, I don't care that much about beer that I'll refuse the closest thing to constitutional carry that we can muster just so I can keep my handgun on my hip while I get hammered. If you're that worried about it, just carry something other than a handgun when you drink - which probably isn't a good idea anyway, regardless of the legalities.
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  3. #3
    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    Do you honestly believe it's a good idea to carry a firearm while drinking? If I'm carrying, I don't touch alcohol, period. If I had to use my firearm, I imagine I would grilled alive in court if it was found out that I had even only one drink. Guns and alcohol don't mix, no matter the amount.
    Last edited by Ian; 11-28-2014 at 04:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Do you honestly believe it's a good idea to carry a firearm while drinking? If I'm carrying, I don't touch alcohol, period. If I had to use my firearm, I imagine I would grilled alive in court if it was found out that I had even only one drink. Guns and alcohol don't mix, no matter the amount.
    If you had to use your firearm in self-defense it should be/have been in response to a threat of great bodily harm - that means verging on death - and your chances of surviving a guilty finding means survival rather than death at the hands of your assailant. Your priorities are misplaced.

    Better tried by twelve good men and true than carried by six weeping and blue.
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  5. #5
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    You're a damn fool, Zekester.

    HB 195 clarifies intoxicated as to mean substantial impairment or a BAC of .08 or greater. This makes it harder for them to secure a conviction for carrying while intoxicated. As it stands, intoxicated is undefined and can mean virtually anything.

    Further, there was never a "while on own premises" defense for carrying while intoxicated.

    You're so incredibly far from being right, it causes me to suspect that you are infact opposed to HB 195 due to the removal of the license requirement.

    In short: you're either an idiot or you're lying.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Do you honestly believe it's a good idea to carry a firearm while drinking? If I'm carrying, I don't touch alcohol, period. If I had to use my firearm, I imagine I would grilled alive in court if it was found out that I had even only one drink. Guns and alcohol don't mix, no matter the amount.
    Good idea? No more a good idea than buying a sports car over a fuel efficient car. Is have a single beer with your dinner while carrying a bad idea? Yeah, if you have less tolerance for alcohol than a 10 year old, sure. A single isn't going to impair anyone. If you're the type of person that can't stop drinking once they've started, then no you shouldn't carry when you drink. But then, you probably shouldn't be drinking anyway.

    It's important to note that as I've already pointed out, Zekester is not only wrong, but the truth is very much the opposite of what he has stated.

    Currently, intoxicated is not defined. This has caused a lot of debate as to whether that means a single beer or actual intoxication. HB 195 defines intoxication for carrying same as it is defined for driving. This actually strengthens your defense, should you need one, that a single beer does not intoxication make. So for those that drink responsibly, this is a good thing. For those that want to get wasted while carrying, yeah now it's applied to all firearms. But I fail to see the issue.

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    But I got my gattlin gun just to protect my beer ... and protect it I shall !

  8. #8
    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Good idea? No more a good idea than buying a sports car over a fuel efficient car. Is have a single beer with your dinner while carrying a bad idea? Yeah, if you have less tolerance for alcohol than a 10 year old, sure. A single isn't going to impair anyone. If you're the type of person that can't stop drinking once they've started, then no you shouldn't carry when you drink. But then, you probably shouldn't be drinking anyway.

    It's important to note that as I've already pointed out, Zekester is not only wrong, but the truth is very much the opposite of what he has stated.

    Currently, intoxicated is not defined. This has caused a lot of debate as to whether that means a single beer or actual intoxication. HB 195 defines intoxication for carrying same as it is defined for driving. This actually strengthens your defense, should you need one, that a single beer does not intoxication make. So for those that drink responsibly, this is a good thing. For those that want to get wasted while carrying, yeah now it's applied to all firearms. But I fail to see the issue.
    Seems like you're borderline attacking me personally which is not necessary. I'm not saying I am intoxicated after one beer, nor that if I drink one I can't stop. I'm saying that the prosecutor would paint me to a jury that my judgement is impaired because there is no current legal clarification on "intoxication" for firearms. I'm simply thinking about "after the bang." This is only personal opinion. As is standard protocol here, can you please link the section that says .08 BAC is considered intoxication with a CHL?
    Last edited by Ian; 11-29-2014 at 11:02 AM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    In HB195,

    (3) "Intoxicated" has the meaning assigned by Section
    49.01, Penal Code.
    http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs...l/HB00195I.htm

    I did NOT notice this earlier, so thank you Jack House for pointing that out. This is a very important clarification in the law. All the MORE REASON TO SUPPORT HB195 as Jack House has explained.
    Advocate freedom please

  10. #10
    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    In HB195,

    (3) "Intoxicated" has the meaning assigned by Section
    49.01, Penal Code.
    http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs...l/HB00195I.htm

    I did NOT notice this earlier, so thank you Jack House for pointing that out. This is a very important clarification in the law. All the MORE REASON TO SUPPORT HB195 as Jack House has explained.
    Thanks stealthy, and thanks for pointing it out Jack as I did not see that either. This makes me even more excited about this bill.

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    People saying that folks with BAC >0.08 lose their RKBA? Really? Really?

  12. #12
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    Not really in to name calling, but I see that some are.

    I do not advocate drinking and carrying.

    Regardless of what 49.01 defines, the way this bill is written, being in “possession” of a handgun while intoxicated is a crime.

    It does not distinguish between whether you are in your car, your office or even in your own house.

    Like I mentioned before...by striking the language:

    [(1) on the person's own premises, or premises under the
    person's control, or with permission of the premises owner]

    Then taking section 8 and changing it to “while intoxicated”.....it give the authorities the right to arrest you in your home just because you had a few drinks and are in possession of a handgun.

    Had an incident in Missouri a while back....and the State ruled that the statue had to be changed to the following:

    "Has a firearm or projectile weapon readily capable of lethal use on his/her person, while he/she is intoxicated, and handles or otherwise uses such firearm or projectile weapon in either a negligent or unlawful manner or discharges such firearm or projectile weapon unless acting in self-defense"


    Like I have said if I am reading it wrong let me know....but take all the words that are stricken out of the text in the entire bill and I think you see that I am right.

    The way it reads now is:


    Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS
    Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN
    (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally,
    knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a
    handgun;
    (8) While intoxicated

    "ABOUT" is the word..."about" is possession. "About " is vicinity..... No matter where you are!!!

    And do not think for one second that a Prosecutor will not use this language against you.
    Last edited by zekester; 11-29-2014 at 01:33 PM.
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  13. #13
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Seems like you're borderline attacking me personally which is not necessary. I'm not saying I am intoxicated after one beer, nor that if I drink one I can't stop. I'm saying that the prosecutor would paint me to a jury that my judgement is impaired because there is no current legal clarification on "intoxication" for firearms. I'm simply thinking about "after the bang." This is only personal opinion. As is standard protocol here, can you please link the section that says .08 BAC is considered intoxication with a CHL?
    I was wondering for the longest time what you were talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Is have a single beer with your dinner while carrying a bad idea? Yeah, if you have less tolerance for alcohol than a 10 year old, sure. A single isn't going to impair anyone. If you're the type of person that can't stop drinking once they've started, then no you shouldn't carry when you drink. But then, you probably shouldn't be drinking anyway.
    I believe you mean this, it wasn't aimed at you. I apologize that I gave that impression, not intentional.

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    In HB195, (3) "Intoxicated" has the meaning assigned by Section 49.01, Penal Code. http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs...l/HB00195I.htm I did NOT notice this earlier, so thank you Jack House for pointing that out. This is a very important clarification in the law. All the MORE REASON TO SUPPORT HB195 as Jack House has explained.
    No problem, fellas. I've read most of the proposed bills pretty thoroughly and spent a lot of time studying the current laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by zekester View Post
    Like I mentioned before...by striking the language: [(1) on the person's own premises, or premises under the person's control, or with permission of the premises owner;
    I see what you are saying now. Previously only license holders carrying under the "CHL defense" were subject to intoxication laws. This makes everyone carrying a handgun subject to intoxication laws(still exempts long guns though).

    You're not entirely wrong. Honestly I believe that the courts would hold that a gun is not "on or about your person" if the gun is out of reach. Even moreso if the gun is locked away without immediate access. Think a safe with a key lock where the key is hidden away and not on you.

    Perhaps not the best wording, but it's also not an immediate threat to your right. Currently we have few options for open carry and no other option for constitutional carry. It is, in my opinion, extremely foolish to reject our best chance at acquiring constitutional carry on the grounds that the intoxicated offense was broadened a wee bit. Especially when there are options available for safe guarding yourself against a conviction.

    If it has you that worried, just lock up your handgun(s) in another room and hide the key.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Honestly I believe that the courts would hold that a gun is not "on or about your person" if the gun is out of reach. <snip>.
    And I believe that your common sense aspect would not be embraced by the courts. Possession never has required the gun to be within reach.

  15. #15
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    I live on a ranch.....I carry a gun every where I go....

    As written, if a LEO....came and talked to me....and I had a few beers..(with clients)...I will lose my gun, subject to arrest and who knows how much money I would have to spend to defend myself.

    I like the bill in principal, but fix it now so that we won't have to fight this years down the road.

    Just change (8) to:

    (8) while intoxicated AND handles or uses such handgun in either a negligent
    or unlawful manner or discharges it other than in self-defense;


    And bring back (1)

    "[(1) on the person's own premises, or premises under the
    person's control, or with permission of the premises owner;]"
    Last edited by zekester; 11-29-2014 at 02:17 PM.
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    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    And I believe that your common sense aspect would not be embraced by the courts. Possession never has required the gun to be within reach.
    Possession is possession....or as far as I am concerned ownership.
    Last edited by zekester; 11-29-2014 at 01:48 PM.
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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zekester View Post
    I live on a ranch.....I carry a gun every where I go....

    As written, if a LEO....came and talked to me....and I had a few beers.....I will lose my gun, subject to arrest and who knows how much money I would have to spend to defend myself.
    Don't carry while intoxicated. I'm not sure why this is so hard to grasp.

    Quote Originally Posted by zekester View Post
    And bring back (1)

    "[(1) on the person's own premises, or premises under the
    person's control, or with permission of the premises owner;]"
    Bringing that back won't change anything, since that never impacted the intoxicated law directly. All it did was provide an exemption to 46.02 so as not to require a license while on your own property. Exemption from the carrying while intoxicated while on your own property only happens now because you don't need a license to carry on your own property and the intoxicated law only applies to those carrying under the authority of their license. But even then it's going to be an uphill battle.

  18. #18
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    Jack

    Constitutional carry is not Constitutional if I cannot carry any way I wish on my own property!!!!!!
    GOD gave me rights!!!....The Constitutuion just confirms it!!

  19. #19
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Don't carry while intoxicated. I'm not sure why this is so hard to grasp.


    Bringing that back won't change anything, since that never impacted the intoxicated law directly. All it did was provide an exemption to 46.02 so as not to require a license while on your own property. Exemption from the carrying while intoxicated while on your own property only happens now because you don't need a license to carry on your own property and the intoxicated law only applies to those carrying under the authority of their license. But even then it's going to be an uphill battle.
    Wrong.......This is not about carry....but....POSSESSION!!!!!!.....can YOU...grasp that?????

    The way the law is written, on private property you cannot be intoxicated and "possess" a handgun

    This is a "handgun bill"...plain and simple......

    Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN
    (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally,
    knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a
    handgun;
    (8) While intoxicated


    And as far as carrying while intoxicated......I hope one day you come upon a wild hog,,,,,a coyote....or a rattlesnake (which I have)
    and decide that ..."Damn...I had a few beers....I guess I will allow my children to get killed today, because the State of Texas says that I can't protect you. But it is ok...I am not going to jail......we passed a flawed carry bill.....that is all that matters."

    "Honey..Who was that tombstone maker?"

    "I think his name was Jack."

    "Where can I find him?"

    "Hiding behind HB 195."

    "Awesome,...grab the shovel and get me a beer."
    Last edited by zekester; 11-29-2014 at 04:03 PM.
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  20. #20
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    A handgun isn't going to protect you from a hog. A snake that is a threat to you will have already bitten you and taken off by the time you unholster your gun, especially if you are intoxicated. A rifle can still be carried while you are drunk off your ass. The keyword is carry, simply owning a gun and being drunk will not get you convicted of a crime.

    I'll say it again: if you can't put the booze down, then don't pick up the gun.

  21. #21
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    A handgun isn't going to protect you from a hog. A snake that is a threat to you will have already bitten you and taken off by the time you unholster your gun, especially if you are intoxicated. A rifle can still be carried while you are drunk off your ass. The keyword is carry, simply owning a gun and being drunk will not get you convicted of a crime.

    I'll say it again: if you can't put the booze down, then don't pick up the gun.
    I have carried a handgun since I was 14 yrs old...I can shoot a hog like no buddies business...I have shot more snakes than you can shake a stick at..a coyote that was attacking my son..............all with a handgun and ......most while I was "legally intoxicated"......it is apparent that you have never lived in the country, despise drinking and have no clue what you are talking about.......

    I would love for you to come face to face with a 300 pound hog charging you, and, with this law...a stick to defend yourself.

    Are you even from Texas?

    My guess is, you are trying to make a name for yourself based on this bill or some other crap....

    This is about the lives of Texans.......I am convinced, even though I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt,,,,,your concern is with yourself.

    Find a new cause....if you cannot understand the meaning of this bill as written.....it is simple....you can't read.
    Last edited by zekester; 11-29-2014 at 04:34 PM.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zekester View Post
    I have carried a handgun since I was 14 yrs old...I can shoot a hog like no buddies business...I have shot more snakes than you can shake a stick at..a coyote that was attacking my son..............all with a handgun and ......most while I was "legally intoxicated"......it is apparent that you have never lived in the country, despise drinking and have no clue what you are talking about.......

    I would love for you to come face to face with a 300 pound hog charging you, and, with this law...a stick to defend yourself.

    Are you even from Texas?

    My guess is, you are trying to make a name for yourself based on this bill or some other crap....

    This is about the lives of Texans.......I am convinced, even though I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt,,,,,your concern is with yourself.

    Find a new cause....if you cannot understand the meaning of this bill as written.....it is simple....you can't read.
    Wow.

    I understand your point... And there is some validity to it... But you're going to find very few people that believe this a big enough deal to refuse to support for HB195.

    Title of this thread should be "do not support HB195 if you want to carry a handgun while drunk"

    I like beer, but there's no way I'm dropping support for HB195 over this.

    The fact is, Texas law is very broken. HB195 would fix a huge portion of it. If HB195 passes, though, there will still be a lot of broken law to fix. That's just the way it is.
    Advocate freedom please

  23. #23
    Regular Member zekester's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Wow.

    I understand your point... And there is some validity to it... But you're going to find very few people that believe this a big enough deal to refuse to support for HB195.

    Title of this thread should be "do not support HB195 if you want to carry a handgun while drunk"

    I like beer, but there's no way I'm dropping support for HB195 over this.

    The fact is, Texas law is very broken. HB195 would fix a huge portion of it. If HB195 passes, though, there will still be a lot of broken law to fix. That's just the way it is.
    Do you not see, it gives the authority for the LEO to arrest you for "possession" of a handgun while "legally intoxicated"...not drunk...even in your own home....whether you did something wrong or not.....

    That is my point....fix it NOW!!!

    As written I will fight this.....Sorry.....it is just wrong
    Last edited by zekester; 11-29-2014 at 05:00 PM.
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  24. #24
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zekester View Post
    Do you not see, it gives the authority for the LEO to arrest you for "possession" of a handgun while "legally intoxicated"...not drunk...even in your own home....whether you did something wrong or not.....

    That is my point....fix it NOW!!!

    As written I will fight this.....Sorry.....it is just wrong
    I don't know enough about how the process works to know if it can be modified by the sponsor at this point or if it would have to be modified in committee, or however else. I agree with you that it should be fixed. I'm still supporting HB195 though. If it came to it, I'd just not answer the door...
    Advocate freedom please

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    The only gun law that I could support is one that repeals another gun law and leaves nothing in its place.

    All gun laws are void.

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