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Dec 13th Rally at the Capital?

Dave_pro2a

Dave_pro2a

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Alpine said:
I still think this is a mistake.

WSP has said they will not arrest people for handing each other guns. My guess is this is because of the huge volume of people showing and not because of their lame, fake statement that they don't consider that to be a "transfer" despite 594 explicitly saying it is. This will backfire badly with WAGR and MDA proclaiming "see, we told you so that handing someone a gun isn't a transfer" all because WSP never had any plans on trying to overcome the crazy logistics of trying to arrest several thousand non-violent lawbreakers at a demonstration.

When police DO come for people exchanging weapons it will be one at a time quietly two or three years from now if the law is still standing by then.
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Cops don't arrest pot smokers at Hemp Fest either.

But they sure do at other times/places.

Universal application of the law grinds the system to a halt -- so they use it to send messages, and use it to target minority populations and poor populations.
 
Alpine

Alpine

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This is going to make fighting 594 tougher. When the first people arrested for handing each other guns happens, the 594 pushers will point to all the photos and news articles about this rally and say "oh it couldn't have been they were arrested for merely that, it must have been something else, " and blow smoke and continue to insist that handing a gun to someone is not a crime.

Did you guys see the pamphlets that the wagr was handing out? It was the most deceptive and dumbed down attempt to interpret 594 I've ever seen. Big block pictures with "ok" or "not ok" after them. And of course they ignored the bulk of the 18 pages on stuff like inheritance, taxes, etc. They also lied badly about the exceptions.

Don't get me wrong, I like gun rallies at the capitol, but the handing guns to each other back and forth with no arrests happening from it will backfire on us badly when cops DO eventually selectively enforce it.
 
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bennie1986

bennie1986

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Alpine said:
This is going to make fighting 594 tougher. When the first people arrested for handing each other guns happens, the 594 pushers will point to all the photos and news articles about this rally and say "oh it couldn't have been they were arrested for merely that, it must have been something else, " and blow smoke and continue to insist that handing a gun to someone is not a crime.

Did you guys see the pamphlets that the wagr was handing out? It was the most deceptive and dumbed down attempt to interpret 594 I've ever seen. Big block pictures with "ok" or "not ok" after them. And of course they ignored the bulk of the 18 pages on stuff like inheritance, taxes, etc. They also lied badly about the exceptions.

Don't get me wrong, I like gun rallies at the capitol, but the handing guns to each other back and forth with no arrests happening from it will backfire on us badly when cops DO eventually selectively enforce it.
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So would it have been better to act like spineless jellyfish keyboard warriors that's typical of this site and do nothing? We can't keep waiting for a perfect scenario cause it's not going to happen.


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Alpine

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bennie1986 said:
So would it have been better to act like spineless jellyfish keyboard warriors that's typical of this site and do nothing? We can't keep waiting for a perfect scenario cause it's not going to happen.


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Click to expand...

I told you, I like gun rallies at the capitol, but it was silly and counterproductive for people to gather and physically exchange guns. Cops in this day and age never arrest several thousand people doing something that's illegal if it's nonviolent.

If we truly believe 594 makes handing each other guns illegal then people should not have done it en masse at this demonstration, because they never were going to get arrested because of the huge crowd. They just wound up looking silly with the condescending antis already falsely stating "see, we told you so!"

Now, when people DO get arrested later, one by one, the media value of that to help fight 594 will be diminished by this pseudo-precedent.
 
bennie1986

bennie1986

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Alpine said:
I told you, I like gun rallies at the capitol, but it was silly and counterproductive for people to gather and physically exchange guns. Cops in this day and age never arrest several thousand people doing something that's illegal if it's nonviolent.

If we truly believe 594 makes handing each other guns illegal then people should not have done it en masse at this demonstration, because they never were going to get arrested because of the huge crowd. They just wound up looking silly with the condescending antis already falsely stating "see, we told you so!"

Now, when people DO get arrested later, one by one, the media value of that to help fight 594 will be diminished by this pseudo-precedent.
Click to expand...

You honestly believe the media would be worth anything anyways? They try to twist anything gun related the wrong way. Again just sit by and wait for the best case scenario cause it ain't gonna happen, but hey maybe that's what people like you are counting on so you can just talk a big game and never step up.

We won't get anywhere if we don't all Stand up every chance we get to stand together. There's always some excuse for example this site doesn't support long gun carry or something stupid like that where we are divided. Just remember united we stand divided we fall. Let's not miss a chance to stand together because we are scared may look bad to people who don't like us anyways.


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Alpine

Alpine

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bennie1986 said:
You honestly believe the media would be worth anything anyways? They try to twist anything gun related the wrong way. Again just sit by and wait for the best case scenario cause it ain't gonna happen, but hey maybe that's what people like you are counting on so you can just talk a big game and never step up.

We won't get anywhere if we don't all Stand up every chance we get to stand together. There's always some excuse for example this site doesn't support long gun carry or something stupid like that where we are divided. Just remember united we stand divided we fall. Let's not miss a chance to stand together because we are scared may look bad to people who don't like us anyways.


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Click to expand...

Let me explain a few things to you about how things work here. The media apart from the stupidity would have been worth it, and there was still some positives from this rally considering the makeup of the state legislature over the next session.

How many anti-gun bills have made it through the legislature in the last few years that there have been major rallies at?

As for people like "me," let me tell you about my "big game." I donated over a thousand dollars to different groups fighting 594 and pushing 591 as well as spent time volunteering going door to door, sign waiving and phone-calling during the election. If you consider that "not stepping up" then you have some issues.

What we need now are a barrage of court challenges, which is why I am donating to the SAF. 594 easily violates the single subject rule, as well as other issues, both state and federal.
 
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bennie1986

bennie1986

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Alpine said:
Let me explain a few things to you about how things work here. The media apart from the stupidity would have been worth it, and there was still some positives from this rally considering the makeup of the state legislature over the next session.

How many anti-gun bills have made it through the legislature in the last few years that there have been major rallies at?

As for people like "me," let me tell you about my "big game." I donated over a thousand dollars to different groups fighting 594 and pushing 591 as well as spent time volunteering going door to door, sign waiving and phone-calling during the election. If you consider that "not stepping up" then you have some issues.

What we need now are a barrage of court challenges, which is why I am donating to the SAF. 594 easily violates the single subject rule, as well as other issues, both state and federal.
Click to expand...

No what we need to do is quit playing games by fighting this through a system that will drag this out over years and by the time it's over they will have passed ten more laws that are unconstitutional. We need to simply not comply with unjust laws and stand our ground. "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty".


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bennie1986

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NavyLCDR said:
And if we simply not comply with unjust laws then over the next ten years they will have passed ten more laws that are unconstitutional that we just don't comply with. When is the pro-gun crowd doing to wake up and figure out that we need to pump millions of dollars into the same TV ads and glossy mailers that the anti-gun crowd uses to win their votes? The NRA and every other big $$$$ pro-gun organizations just got their a$$e$ handed to them by Bill Gates, Michael Bloomberg and a handful of other anti-gun politician/billionaires. And where are the lawsuits to get this tossed out in court?!? The ******* initiative did not meet the single subject or title disclosure requirements because the initiative changed the sales/use tax laws in addition to firearms laws.
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You through your dollars where ever you want but some of us have next to nothing when it comes to money and I'm not going to sit on my ass and wait for you and your merry band of elitists to pick and choose the perfect time to sand up and fight. I'm not saying there is no benefit to your method but it's going to take more than just money to get this country back especially if we want our children to see the benefit of our efforts. Like I said before we must stand together every chance we have or we will fail.


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Alpine

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NavyLCDR said:
And if we simply not comply with unjust laws then over the next ten years they will have passed ten more laws that are unconstitutional that we just don't comply with. When is the pro-gun crowd doing to wake up and figure out that we need to pump millions of dollars into the same TV ads and glossy mailers that the anti-gun crowd uses to win their votes? The NRA and every other big $$$$ pro-gun organizations just got their a$$e$ handed to them by Bill Gates, Michael Bloomberg and a handful of other anti-gun politician/billionaires. And where are the lawsuits to get this tossed out in court?!? The ******* initiative did not meet the single subject or title disclosure requirements because the initiative changed the sales/use tax laws in addition to firearms laws.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. The NRA put in MILLIONS in 1997. This year 594 was the ONLY gun initiative nation-wide and everyone knew that if it succeeded they'd try to spread it to other states, and yet we didn't even get a measely half million.

Now it's time to get into the courts.
 
golddigger14s

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Had to work, but my 2 cents:
We are like any group of people fighting for rights. There will be all sorts from people that don't own guns, but support the right to the "Mall Ninja" types. Not everyone will agree, just like some of people slam me for OC'ing. We need to come together as a group. The anti-gun people are dividing us, and they are now winning. I have a thick skin, and can absorb some of the BS. But we really need to unite, and agree to disagree as they say. At least the "tacticool people" were there to add their voice. The media always finds the most inbred idiot to interview no matter what the situation (hurricane, tornado, flood, or 2A rally). I wore a uniform for a long time, so I might not agree with the mall ninjas it is my job as an American to support their right. Just like the LGBT guy with the rainbow painted Mosin Nagant.
 
bennie1986

bennie1986

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NavyLCDR said:
The problem is that dealing with bills in the legislature and dealing with initiatives geared toward the mindless sheeple voters are two entirely different processes that require two entirely different tactics to fight against. Rallies and protests and rational letters and discussion will work to defeat a bill in the legislature, just like it has in the past. Fighting an initiative requires lots and lots of public relations that gets right into the homes of the lazy and/or ignorant voters who aren't going to get out and research a damn thing on their own. That requires lots and lots of organization funded by lots and lots of $$$. In the case with I-594, not a single pro-gun organization that had anything close to the $$$ required to fight it did a damn thing but make a few phone calls and one or two TV ads to prevent I-594 from passing.

Now it is time to take it to the courts and the question is what is the SAF and NRA or whatever pro-gun group waiting for? The initiative clearly did not meet the requirements for a legal initiative to be on the ballot so why isn't that grounds enough to bring the first lawsuit? Unless you think we can get 2/3 of the legislature to repeal something that almost 60% of the voters voted for.
Click to expand...

This rally was about more than just 594. 594 was just what sparked outrage and prompted a line in the sand for standing up for our liberty. There not enough money in the world to right all the wrongs of our government and for this reason we must show them we won't take their ******** laws anymore.


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Grim_Night

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bennie1986 said:
This rally was about more than just 594. 594 was just what sparked outrage and prompted a line in the sand for standing up for our liberty. There not enough money in the world to right all the wrongs of our government and for this reason we must show them we won't take their ******** laws anymore.


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Click to expand...

Something I remembered that I think applies here...

We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further!
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I know, I know, a quote from a star trek movie... but it has a direct bearing on what is going on in our nation.
 
D

Dave Workman

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Alpine said:
This is going to make fighting 594 tougher. When the first people arrested for handing each other guns happens, the 594 pushers will point to all the photos and news articles about this rally and say "oh it couldn't have been they were arrested for merely that, it must have been something else, " and blow smoke and continue to insist that handing a gun to someone is not a crime.Did you guys see the pamphlets that the wagr was handing out? It was the most deceptive and dumbed down attempt to interpret 594 I've ever seen. Big block pictures with "ok" or "not ok" after them. And of course they ignored the bulk of the 18 pages on stuff like inheritance, taxes, etc. They also lied badly about the exceptions.Don't get me wrong, I like gun rallies at the capitol, but the handing guns to each other back and forth with no arrests happening from it will backfire on us badly when cops DO eventually selectively enforce it.
Click to expand...

All interesting observations, and not without some merit.

Consider this possibility: State authorities (WSP, AG's office, WDFW) are purposely minimizing the apparent impact of I-594 for the time being simply to create the public impression that opposition to the measure was overblown and simply wrong.

Consider the possibility that this effort will continue until sometime in late spring, after the legislature has adjourned, at which time the AG's office will suddenly determine that, "Oh, gosh, maybe the measure DOES mean that, after all" and thus open the door for prosecutions of violators.

Not saying this is a conspiracy, just tossing this out there for consideration.
 
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Alpine

Alpine

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Absolutely correct Dave. That was the plan all along. Selective messaging and enforcement. You wrote articles on how after the election was over wagr and others behind 594 all of a sudden started calling it a gun control measure after not doing that and then they started saying how they wanted more laws after claiming 594 and their push was only about background checks.
 
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