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Thread: Fredericksburg PD circumvents gun buy-back law via loophole

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Fredericksburg PD circumvents gun buy-back law via loophole

    This makes me sick to my stomach. Until now, the Fredericksburg PD has, as far as I know anyway, handled gun issues fairly well.

    They are using a loophole to circumvent the law's requirement that guns obtained via gun buy-back programs MUST be offered for sale to licensed dealers before being destroyed. Instead of "buying" them back, a local rich lady is offering to donate money to charity for each gun turned in to be destroyed.

    I hope we can make enough noise about this to stop it. VCDL!!

    TFred
    Fredericksburg Police to Collect Unwanted Guns, No Questions Asked

    The Fredericksburg Police Department will collect unwanted guns, no-questions-asked, Saturday, Dec. 13. Guns should be taken to the police headquarters, 2200 Cowan Boulevard, between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m.

    The police department’s sponsor, Dorris Buffett, will donate $100 for every turned-in gun to one of four charities...

    All guns turned in to police during this time will be destroyed. Fredericksburg Police can ensure that the firearms will never be used to commit a crime.

    The key phrase in the law reads:

    "any program in which individuals are given a thing of value provided by another individual or other entity"
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-27-2014 at 05:08 PM. Reason: Remove explanation point from title

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    Technically, the old lady may actually be the purchaser then ... sounds like a straw purchase then if the cops take possession of the guns.

    Call the ATF , they won't enforce the law in this case, but get it recorded for future reference.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    a local rich lady is offering to donate money to charity for each gun turned in to be destroyed.



    Those who turn over guns stand to gain nothing.
    An industrious individual/s with a little bit of cash could really clean up.


    Think I might head to F'burg with a little bit of cash and stand on the public sidewalk outside the LEO house that day.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Those who turn over guns stand to gain nothing.
    An industrious individual/s with a little bit of cash could really clean up.


    Think I might head to F'burg with a little bit of cash and stand on the public sidewalk outside the LEO house that day.
    Even the parking would be fair territory/legal.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    So an OCDO meet, then?

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    Regular Member Tricorn's Avatar
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    Police HQ is right next door to Hugh Mercer Elementary School. Does the 1000 ft gun-free school zone come into play?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Those who turn over guns stand to gain nothing.
    An industrious individual/s with a little bit of cash could really clean up.


    Think I might head to F'burg with a little bit of cash and stand on the public sidewalk outside the LEO house that day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Even the parking would be fair territory/legal.
    TFred - What's a decent breakfast place downtown? Sounds like a field trip from all points.

    Since i'll be carrying a large amount of cash and dealing with strangers I would appreciate a few folks who would watch my back during negotiations.

    And maybe one or two to hold up signs reading "I'm paying cash for guns. Prove you are a Virginia resident. No bill of sale." (Since I'm not selling I don't have to worry about the seller being a felon.)

    Since all the sellers are honest Dean's List scholars on their way to Bible study/picking up their grandmother from choir practice there's no reason to believe anything they offer for sale might be stolen.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tricorn View Post
    Police HQ is right next door to Hugh Mercer Elementary School. Does the 1000 ft gun-free school zone come into play?
    No more or less so than for anyone who might be BRINGING a gun to sell, as long as you stay off of the actual school property.

    In other words, sure, that law ALWAYS comes into play, but should not for this event any more than any other day of the week, etc.

    You can't drive on Route 1 through the city of Fredericksburg without entering this 1,000 foot zone of at least two, and possibly three different schools.

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    TFred - What's a decent breakfast place downtown? Sounds like a field trip from all points.
    I rarely eat breakfast out, but I've heard about a couple:

    Battlefield Restaurant
    1018 Lafayette Blvd
    Right across from the National Cemetery Visitor Center

    Forum Restaurant
    3401 Lafayette Blvd
    A little farther out of town, actually in Sposty County

    Then there's your Bob Evans and Cracker Barrel. CB in Central Park is probably the closest to the PD HQ.

    Reviews are always mixed, but the first two have been around for a while, especially Battlefield, so they can't be all bad.

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    This is not going well for them. Good. I think once VCDL applies a little more pressure, they just might give it up.

    I know some do not do Facebook, but this is a public page, so even without an account, you should be able to see it:

    Gun Give Back Flier - and lots of comments!

    TFred

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tricorn View Post
    Police HQ is right next door to Hugh Mercer Elementary School. Does the 1000 ft gun-free school zone come into play?
    The instructions published in the announcement require a donor to transport the firearm unloaded in the trunk of their car. I'm thinking that following that instruction ensures no donor will violate the the 1,000' rule.

    The prospective buyers who lure sellers to the nearby parking lot/street may not enjoy such an exemption (CHP holders exempt, of course).
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    This makes me sick to my stomach. Until now, the Fredericksburg PD has, as far as I know anyway, handled gun issues fairly well.

    They are using a loophole to circumvent the law's requirement that guns obtained via gun buy-back programs MUST be offered for sale to licensed dealers before being destroyed. Instead of "buying" them back, a local rich lady is offering to donate money to charity for each gun turned in to be destroyed.

    I hope we can make enough noise about this to stop it. VCDL!!

    TFred
    Fredericksburg Police to Collect Unwanted Guns, No Questions Asked

    The Fredericksburg Police Department will collect unwanted guns, no-questions-asked, Saturday, Dec. 13. Guns should be taken to the police headquarters, 2200 Cowan Boulevard, between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m.

    The police department’s sponsor, Dorris Buffett, will donate $100 for every turned-in gun to one of four charities...

    All guns turned in to police during this time will be destroyed. Fredericksburg Police can ensure that the firearms will never be used to commit a crime.

    The key phrase in the law reads:

    "any program in which individuals are given a thing of value provided by another individual or other entity"
    It would appear from the description given that no one turning in a firearm will receive anything tangible.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Those who turn over guns stand to gain nothing.except a small loss of Freedom)
    An industrious individual/s with a little bit of cash could really clean up.
    Think I might head to F'burg with a little bit of cash and stand on the public sidewalk outside the LEO house that day.
    Great Success to you all!!
    We did this in Seattle when anti gun mayor magrimm did a "buy back". We were very aggressive and did well.
    Good luck to you.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    The instructions published in the announcement require a donor to transport the firearm unloaded in the trunk of their car. I'm thinking that following that instruction ensures no donor will violate the the 1,000' rule.

    The prospective buyers who lure sellers to the nearby parking lot/street may not enjoy such an exemption (CHP holders exempt, of course).
    A nearby parking lot other than the PD parking lot would be private property. Not so for the side of the road, which would be a traffic hazard as well, since there are no shoulders along the road that leads to the PD HQ.

    TFred

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    Or just wear a uniform at the entrance to the parking lot and pick them up there for nothing.

    Most would just hand you the gun ... have your buddy drive around with some guns to show them how to do it. Monkey see, monkey do.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Or just wear a uniform at the entrance to the parking lot and pick them up there for nothing.

    Most would just hand you the gun ... have your buddy drive around with some guns to show them how to do it. Monkey see, monkey do.


    LOL.....

    I can see it now, forty out of shape folks wearing 5.11 gear and holding a sign "accepting turn in guns here"
    Last edited by Marco; 12-03-2014 at 12:17 PM. Reason: myself included
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    It would appear from the description given that no one turning in a firearm will receive anything tangible.
    That's pretty tricky of the old girl!

    The PD pays out nothing to people bringing guns (Which is good for the sidewalk buyers) and the Rich Lady contributes a hundred bucks to a tax deductible charity....which she deducts from her taxes.

    That's the same stunt Cuccinelli pulled with his ill gotten gains when McDonnell got busted.

    The real question is....how many people are stupid enough to give the cops a gun for nothing?
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-03-2014 at 04:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    That's pretty tricky of the old girl!

    The PD pays out nothing to people bringing guns (Which is good for the sidewalk buyers) and the Rich Lady contributes a hundred bucks to a tax deductible charity....which she deducts from her taxes.

    That's the same stunt Cuccinelli pulled with his ill gotten gains when McDonnell got busted.

    The real question is....how many people are stupid enough to give the cops a gun for nothing?
    I guess we'll find out ... upon the reports of those who attend or watch

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    It would appear from the description given that no one turning in a firearm will receive anything tangible.
    Think this will be determined to be "like kind," wherein the persons turning in the guns will get the benefit of money going to the charity of their choice w/o having to reach for their checkbook.

    Only question I would have is who gets the tax deduction?
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-03-2014 at 05:04 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Think this will be determined to be "like kind," wherein the persons turning in the guns will get the benefit of money going to the charity of their choice w/o having to reach for their checkbook.

    Only question I would have is who gets the tax deduction?
    I can't see where anyone other than the sponsor/donor/money lady, would get it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Further thought -

    Considering that Virginia is a Dillon Rule state, from where does Fredericksburg derive it's authority to expend money/manpower on on something not specifically authorized by the state?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    I understand the LEOs will not be accepting ammunition. I would set up a "lemonade" type stand with a "Drop off Ammo Here" sign. Never know what may end up in the big range bucket.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    A nearby parking lot other than the PD parking lot would be private property. Not so for the side of the road, which would be a traffic hazard as well, since there are no shoulders along the road that leads to the PD HQ.

    TFred
    It would behoove any entrepreneurs to have the owner's permission to set up shop. Also, there might be some sort of requirement for a business permit.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    It would appear from the description given that no one turning in a firearm will receive anything tangible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Think this will be determined to be "like kind," wherein the persons turning in the guns will get the benefit of money going to the charity of their choice w/o having to reach for their checkbook.

    Only question I would have is who gets the tax deduction?
    How does the person turning in a gun benefit from a third party's gift to a charity?
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    How does the person turning in a gun benefit from a third party's gift to a charity?
    That was my point. I doubt there will be many takers.

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