Fredericksburg PD circumvents gun buy-back law via loophole

davidmcbeth said:

Gunbroker has a forum or message board .. I think that was what he was referring to, although not well enough for people to know what he was talking about.

Perhaps he has an emergency torpedo to fire out.

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Did Matt get infected with the deadly davidmcbeth virus?

And if he was referencing the Gunbroker forum I still don't see how that connects to "boots on the ground" offers of cash instead of turning in guns for prizes.

stay safe.

I think the people who participate in the gun buyback programs don't realize they have options such as gunbroker and armslist.com (among many others) available to them.

Some don't even realize they can go to most pawn shops either!

If someone were to conduct a survey at these buybacks, they might get answers like:

- I found this gun and don't want to have anything to do with it. So I saved it in hopes it might be worth something. Then I heard about the cop's buyback offer..
- My dear wife passed away and left me her gun collection. They must have been cheap because she had so many of them! I guess they are worth about $100.
- Oh! These things are so scary. I hope the police know what to do with them.
- I'm afraid they might fall into the wrong hands, so I'm giving them to a group I can trust.
- I didn't know there would be places I could sell them for $$. Don't I need an FFL or something like that?
- I don't know nothin' about no guns. Just gimme what y'all think theys worth.

I think putting out a nice ad in the paper and setting up in a safe place with a nice booth would get people to open up and bring their unwanted firearms. Have everyone staffing wear a nice uniform - ie. Everyone with same colored shirt and tie, maybe an organizational patch to assure them we are not some gang.

Have a process of assessing the functionality and fair value.

Of course, you should expect some junk and would need to have a way of keeping the people turning in satisfied. Otherwise, the event gets bad reviews.

There would have to be some cash behind this venture. That would be the biggest hurdle for something worthwhile.

Otherwise, a nice tent stationed in the parking lot of the police buyback is still the easiest way to do it.

BillHoo said:

I think putting out a nice ad in the paper and setting up in a safe place with a nice booth would get people to open up and bring their unwanted firearms. Have everyone staffing wear a nice uniform - ie. Everyone with same colored shirt and tie, maybe an organizational patch to assure them we are not some gang.

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Exactly. Maybe even subtly imply the "buyback" is "official", in the same manner that the FPD implied theirs was "legal".

Ok gents - you forced me to get off my tapatalk app and use my PC keyboard....
Discussion is going along well, the event happened, local cops violating VA law were po'd at your competition, so some guns were scored at the PD guns-for-cash charity give-back. Then idea came up that there s/b options for folks:

marshaul said:

lol. Why not?
Cash for guns! No questions asked!
Should be legal.

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Gunbroker/Armslist, and other websites do this right now - cash for guns, no background checks, etc.
Bill Hoo did contribute a POV I did not - folks are unaware of their options where they can get cold hard CASH for their guns vs just give them away 'for the children'

BillHoo said:

I think the people who participate in the gun buyback programs don't realize they have options such as gunbroker and armslist.com (among many others) available to them.
Some don't even realize they can go to most pawn shops either!
If someone were to conduct a survey at these buybacks, they might get answers like:
- I found this gun and don't want to have anything to do with it. So I saved it in hopes it might be worth something. Then I heard about the cop's buyback offer..
- My dear wife passed away and left me her gun collection. They must have been cheap because she had so many of them! I guess they are worth about $100.
- Oh! These things are so scary. I hope the police know what to do with them.
- I'm afraid they might fall into the wrong hands, so I'm giving them to a group I can trust.
- I didn't know there would be places I could sell them for $$. Don't I need an FFL or something like that?
- I don't know nothin' about no guns. Just gimme what y'all think theys worth......

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The issue I was thinking of was if you collect a pool of cash, how do you use it? I like Walthers, Bill likes shotguns, Fred wants carbines, Beulah likes Glocks. At the end of the day - unless all of you are out there during the 'buyback' - you'd have a trunk of random guns, so if you took in 18 glocks and one Remington 700, would you tell Beulah she needs to replenish the kitty for the $1800 laid out for her babies? That is where the beauty of Gunbroker, etc works - you can sell/buy exactly what you want or what you have....again to Bill's point folks probably don't know their options - gun stores, pawnshops, police 'donations'.... but to Marshaul's point - guns for cash - no questions asked - No FFL - that's Gunbroker/Armslist - matches buyer/seller up exactly, subject to price.

You just can't make this stuff up...

Fredericksburg deputy's mishap will add to gun give-back effort

"Misfired." I do not think that word means what you think it means.

TFred

TFred said:

You just can't make this stuff up...

Fredericksburg deputy's mishap will add to gun give-back effort

"Misfired." I do not think that word means what you think it means.

TFred

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Pure negligence that he harmed himself. Always, repeat always, keep the gun pointed in a safe direction AND never grip over the muzzle.

Shooting himself is about as safe as it gets. Basement? Was he drunk?

If you or I had fired a gun in the basement of the courthouse, we wouldn't be musing about what we planned to do with it later.

It was the gun's fault. Some people just do not understand....or do and won't admit it. Color me purple.

Does Sheriff Higgs authorize his officers to carry broken, personally-owned rimfire handguns in the course of their official duties?

§ 18.2-283.1. Carrying weapon into courthouse.

It shall be unlawful for any person to possess in or transport into any courthouse in this Commonwealth any (i) gun or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile or projectile of any kind, (ii) frame, receiver, muffler, silencer, missile, projectile or ammunition designed for use with a dangerous weapon and (iii) any other dangerous weapon, including explosives, stun weapons as defined in § 18.2-308.1, and those weapons specified in subsection A of § 18.2-308. Any such weapon shall be subject to seizure by a law-enforcement officer. A violation of this section is punishable as a Class 1 misdemeanor.

The provisions of this section shall not apply to any police officer, sheriff, law-enforcement agent or official, conservation police officer, conservator of the peace, magistrate, court officer, judge, or city or county treasurer while in the conduct of such person's official duties.

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Lyndsy Simon said:

Does Sheriff Higgs authorize his officers to carry broken, personally-owned rimfire handguns in the course of their official duties?

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That would be a very interesting question to ask in a public forum.

The ultimate answer is that the Sheriffs Office space is not the "courthouse" as determined by the Supreme Court of Virginia. See here also for complete ruling. However, when you start asking questions about who has the authority to establish a security perimeter around the entire building, that answer suddenly changes. Judges typically have complete control over the courthouse, which is why they can prohibit everything from fingernail clippers to cell phones to ... pretty much anything they want. But the Supreme Court of Virginia has ruled that spaces not actually used for the court don't count. From the ruling: "Only that part of the courthouse building necessary for the use and occupancy of the circuit court constituted the courthouse..."

This is a discrepancy that has long been known about, but with little hope for a proper resolution, simply because it would be way too expensive to establish security perimeters around only the areas that are covered by the authority of the judges as stated by the referenced case above.

Sadly, dollars trump rights.

TFred

ETA: And here is where it gets interesting. If you consider the quote I used above, you find the entire statement in context, plus a little bit more:

"Only that part of the courthouse building necessary for the use and occupancy of the circuit court constituted the courthouse, and the court has control over the assignment of space in such area. The governing body of the county has control of the use and occupancy of all other areas of the building."

That last part in bold seems to place the rules for the rest of the building under the auspices of 15.2-915, which would mean that not only are they not authorized to establish a security perimeter for the entire building, they are specifically not allowed to prohibit the carry of firearms in all other areas of the building not specifically used to house the courts!

Kind of blows your mind, doesn't it?

^ ^ Yep, we've been around that corner before. ^ ^

Don't see any hope of getting it changed right now either.

Or we just focus on the OBVIOUS question here....What was he doing, working on his personal project (in this case a firearm) while at his government work place, where he "most likely" was on the taxpayers clock? Misuse of government/county facilities and fraud as he was NOT doing the job he was being PAID TO DO but instead working on his own project trying to save himself money while collecting money a job he wasn't performing.

wrearick said:

Or we just focus on the OBVIOUS question here....What was he doing, working on his personal project (in this case a firearm) while at his government work place, where he "most likely" was on the taxpayers clock? Misuse of government/county facilities and fraud as he was NOT doing the job he was being PAID TO DO but instead working on his own project trying to save himself money while collecting money a job he wasn't performing.

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Wonder if he put in a claim for workman's comp - injured on the job?

Grapeshot said:

Wonder if he put in a claim for workman's comp - injured on the job?

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This is a brilliant question!

"Will the Deputy be covered by a Worker's Compensation claim for this injury?"

This question asks a LOT more than just the words would indicate.

TFred

TFred said:

You just can't make this stuff up...

Fredericksburg deputy's mishap will add to gun give-back effort

"Misfired." I do not think that word means what you think it means.

TFred

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Foster was trying to fix his .22-caliber handgun inside his office in the basement of the Fredericksburg Courthouse on Wednesday when the gun misfired.


ALL FIXED ! "misfired" ... TFred is correct .. not a misfire, except for some brain cells misfiring.

davidmcbeth said:

Foster was trying to fix his .22-caliber handgun inside his office in the basement of the Fredericksburg Courthouse on Wednesday when the gun misfired.


ALL FIXED ! "misfired" ... TFred is correct .. not a misfire, except for some brain cells misfiring.

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So he is a basement dweller - hadn't seen that before.

markmopar said:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/01/23/firearms-enthusiasts-crash-gun-buyback-to-hunt-bargains/

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That was Oregon. We scored some in F'burg, and then completed totally unregistered private sales without going through background checks. In plain sight. On the street in front of the PD. With the cops watching.

stay safe.

And the nausea continues...

TFred