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Pardon Mark Wahlberg or not? Please read article before voting

What's your verdict?

  • Yes, I would pardon Mark Wahlberg.

    Votes: 4 16.7%
  • No, I would not pardon Mark Wahlberg.

    Votes: 20 83.3%

  • Total voters
    24

marshaul

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But knowing a few folks that are in the prop business I've been assured that at least ever since Bruce Lee's kid blew his brains out with a blank they have not been using "real" guns. Also I've been told that "real" guns do not provide the visual effect desired for films and that CGI does.

First of all, Brandon Lee didn't shoot himself, he was shot. Secondly, it was the fault of the blank only insofar as the bore had been left obstructed after a prior special effect shot, thanks to incompetent crew and an armorer who had left the scene. That incident provided no reason to stop using "real" guns; rather it provided a strong incentive to not allow the use of firearms when the armorer is off-set.

Secondly, most purpose-built blank guns look like crap on screen, and tend to be used in low-budget films which have maybe a single gun. Real guns modified to fire blanks, on the other hand, look great and tend to be modified to the minimum extent necessary to cycle from gas pressure alone. This is still far and away the most common solution in big-budget films.

CGI looks the worst, is immediately apparent to anyone with an eye for film and experience with firearms, and is only used when budgets are low (or slashed, such as from the second season onward of The Walking Dead, wherein blanks are only used for season finales, gunfights which are major plot points, etc.).

I think the prop guys you know specialize in Halloween parties.
 
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utbagpiper

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Um, non sequitur alert. Wahlberg isn't seeking restoration of rights (he doesn't need a pardon for that). He's hoping to use his name recognition to be granted retroactive exoneration for a real, serious crime.

Sure, let the man carry guns. Who cares? He doesn't appear to care enough to do so, anyway. But don't let him own a clean record; that would be fraud.

I don't claim to know the particulars of the laws in his State and whether a restoration of rights is possible without a pardon.

I've made clear that he ought to have his rights restored. If a pardon in the only mechanism for that, so be it. If there are other mechanisms more appropriate, great.

As for non-sequitur, a pardon does not create a fraud. The federal constitution and the constitutions of several States permit the pardon process. I believe most States also have a process for expunging records that doesn't require a pardon. None of these are frauds. They are well accepted, long standing legal process that recognize the capacity for humans to change and having changed to not have to carry around a lifetime scarlet letter.

As a celebrity, Wahlberg is one of those who will never be fully free of his past. Too many know it. A legal expungement, pardon, or restoration of rights won't change that and won't create any fraud.

I reject your view of what is or is not fraudulent.

Charles
 

utbagpiper

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How about you try reading this? http://www.celebuzz.com/photos/gun-control-where-do-stars-stand-on-firearms/mark-wahlberg-6/

Walberg quoted out of context by skidmark said:
“Certainly, I haven’t used a gun anywhere other than on a movie set and I’d like to see if we could take them all away. It would be a beautiful thing.”

First of all, a man's rights should not be dependent on his political views.

Secondly, it is not nice to quote out of context.

Here is a little more context for that quote:

Walberg quote in context from link provided by skidmark said:
"I would love it if they could take all the guns away. Unfortunately, you can’t do that so you hope that good people in the world have them to protect the people who can’t protect themselves,” Mark Wahlberg bemoaned in the Herald Sun in 2007. “Certainly, I haven’t used a gun anywhere other than on a movie set and I’d like to see if we could take them all away. It would be a beautiful thing.”
(emphasis added)

Now, I still don't agree with his views here. I recognize that in the absence of guns, the weak fall prey to the strong, the lone or slow to the many or fast. But I recognize in his views something a little more thoughtful and subtle than just wanting to ban all guns because that would work so well.

And again, how can I lay claim to my rights if I don't support that exact same right for someone who disagrees with me?

Charles
 
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marshaul

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As a celebrity, Wahlberg is one of those who will never be fully free of his past. Too many know it. A legal expungement, pardon, or restoration of rights won't change that and won't create any fraud.

I reject your view of what is or is not fraudulent.

That's a fair point, but it certainly wouldn't apply to anyone who wasn't a celebrity, which gets us back to double standards.

Do you honestly believe any disadvantaged member of society would ever be considered for a pardon for this particular crime?
 

Shovelhead

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NO VA, ,
First of all, a man's rights should not be dependent on his political views.

Secondly, it is not nice to quote out of context.

Here is a little more context for that quote:
“I would love it if they could take all the guns away. Unfortunately, you can’t do that so you hope that good people in the world have them to protect the people who can’t protect themselves,” Mark Wahlberg bemoaned in the Herald Sun in 2007. “Certainly, I haven’t used a gun anywhere other than on a movie set and I’d like to see if we could take them all away. It would be a beautiful thing.


(emphasis added)

Now, I still don't agree with his views here. I recognize that in the absence of guns, the weak fall prey to the strong, the lone or slow to the many or fast. But I recognize in his views something a little more thoughtful and subtle than just wanting to ban all guns because that would work so well.

And again, how can I lay claim to my rights if I don't support that exact same right for someone who disagrees with me?

Charles

I guess it depends on the reader's interpretation.
I'd read that statement as The "Good People" (COPS of which he wants to become one,) would have guns to protect those that can't protect themselves (because as a COP he would have removed the peasant's means of self defense as per his last statement ).
 
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Logan 5

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What has he done to provide restitution to the victims? Only then should be be free.
To keep someone with a label over their head prosecutes them over and over in the court of public opinion. That's not right.
He did the crime, he did the time, now pay what's owed to the victims and let it go. Give him a full restoration of rights.

If your God-given Constitutionally protect rights cannot be trumped, then why is he any different?
 

utbagpiper

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Do you honestly believe any disadvantaged member of society would ever be considered for a pardon for this particular crime?

Perhaps you missed my original post:

utbagpiper said:
My only hesitation is that it is a shame he might get something most others with very similar life stories don't get simply because he can afford the lawyers and publicity.

I believe everyone should be treated equally. Unlike socialists and some others, I do not believe in equal suffering, but rather in equal opportunity and equal treatment before the law.

I believe that every man, free to walk the streets unsupervised should have ALL of his rights respected.

So I believe this man should have his RKBA respected. I believe the poor, anonymous man should also have his RKBA respected. I happen to think having to beg and plead for a pardon, or an expungement, or other formal restoration of rights is offensive and a violation of the constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment.

I'd like to see the law changed to both provide automatic restoration of rights (by not imposing lifetime bans in the first place) while also imposing appropriate sentences for crimes so as to actually protect society from violent criminals. But until that happens, I'm going to support restoration of rights for everyone who has completed his sentence and stayed out of trouble for a year or two.

I won't oppose a rich or famous man his rights today simply because a poor, unknown man might be mistreated tomorrow; nor vice-versa.

Charles
 

skidmark

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utbagpiper -

Does your response include the notion that equal opportunity and equal treatment before the law includes returning the individual and society to status quo ante? Sometimes it's been called "restorative justice".

Walhburg has had both the time, the means, and the opportunity to make restitution to his victim and to society. I cannot find any evidence that he has done anything towards accomplishing that. Worse, he is "promising" that he will engage in some form of "youth education" only after he is granted a pardon. Quid pro quo is, IMHO, a pretty sucky way to seek forgiveness. The selling of indulgences was ended several centuries ago, but that's what Marky Mark is proposing be done.

stay safe.
 

utbagpiper

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Does your response include the notion that equal opportunity and equal treatment before the law includes returning the individual and society to status quo ante? Sometimes it's been called "restorative justice".

I think restitution is a fine ideal and ought to be part of sentencing whenever practical. But there are many cases where restitution is impossible. Once taken, life cannot be restored. Once committed, an assault cannot be undone. Major theft or fraud may well be beyond the ability of the criminal to ever make restitution.

I do not believe that the inability to make full restitution should leave a man forever a 2nd class citizen, stripped of his fundamental rights.

If he is a danger to society, keep him locked up until he isn't. Obviously, changes in sentencing would be needed in some cases to constitutionally keep men locked up until they are no longer a danger.

If he is not a danger and has completed the legally required terms of his sentence and is permitted to walk our streets unsupervised, respect his rights, all of them.

We might well consider on how much jail time actually serves to "pay a debt" vs using incarceration primarily for the safety of society while imposing some kind of non-incarceration restitution requirement. But that is all rather complex and will always be imperfect.

If we are going to impose restrictions on a man's rights, I don't see why his RKBA should be held hostage above and beyond other rights. Do we let a man freely assemble, speak, attend church, preach a sermon, read or write a newspaper, be secure in his person, access an attorney, vote, or hold public office?

Frankly, I see no reason why a non-violent felony should contain any prohibition on RKBA at all even under our current lifetime ban for felonies.


Walhburg has had both the time, the means, and the opportunity to make restitution to his victim and to society.

I am opposed to ex post facto laws. So while I favor reasonable restitution where possible moving forward, for those whose crimes are in the past, my standard is whether he has completed the requirements of his sentence in law at the time he committed the crime. Yes, this means some jerks will get their rights restored. I find that preferable to denying rights until someone proves he isn't a jerk.

And since the restitutive changes to the justice system you suggest are large enough to require quite some time to implement, and might never ben implemented, my focus is on removing the lifetime scarlet letter and restriction of RKBA.

Charles
 

skidmark

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I think restitution is a fine ideal and ought to be part of sentencing whenever practical. But there are many cases where restitution is impossible. Once taken, life cannot be restored. Once committed, an assault cannot be undone. Major theft or fraud may well be beyond the ability of the criminal to ever make restitution.

I do not believe that the inability to make full restitution should leave a man forever a 2nd class citizen, stripped of his fundamental rights.

There are various forms of restitution. Also, restitution need not be made in the form of monetary quid pro quo, nore need it be made to the "full value" of the harm.

If he is a danger to society, keep him locked up until he isn't. Obviously, changes in sentencing would be needed in some cases to constitutionally keep men locked up until they are no longer a danger.

I respectfully disagree. Sadly, at present that is only being applied to some sex offenders and some mentally ill persons.

If he is not a danger and has completed the legally required terms of his sentence and is permitted to walk our streets unsupervised, respect his rights, all of them.

We might well consider on how much jail time actually serves to "pay a debt" vs using incarceration primarily for the safety of society while imposing some kind of non-incarceration restitution requirement. But that is all rather complex and will always be imperfect.

Why will it "always be imperfect"? There are many historical models to use as a basis.

If we are going to impose restrictions on a man's rights, I don't see why his RKBA should be held hostage above and beyond other rights. Do we let a man freely assemble, speak, attend church, preach a sermon, read or write a newspaper, be secure in his person, access an attorney, vote, or hold public office?

Check the laws on holding public office. Putting one erroneous item in your list oftem negates your entire list.

Frankly, I see no reason why a non-violent felony should contain any prohibition on RKBA at all even under our current lifetime ban for felonies.

Huh? That does not compute.

I am opposed to ex post facto laws. So while I favor reasonable restitution where possible moving forward, for those whose crimes are in the past, my standard is whether he has completed the requirements of his sentence in law at the time he committed the crime. Yes, this means some jerks will get their rights restored. I find that preferable to denying rights until someone proves he isn't a jerk.

There is no imposition of an ex post facto law when exercising a discretionary power. Your red herring will not hunt, to mangle a couple of nostrums.

And since the restitutive changes to the justice system you suggest are large enough to require quite some time to implement, and might never ben implemented, my focus is on removing the lifetime scarlet letter and restriction of RKBA.

It's too hard! It will take too long!

Again, the grant of a pardon is a discretionary act. The issue at hand is whether or not that discretionary act should be activated.

Charles

stay safe.
 
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utbagpiper

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Again, the grant of a pardon is a discretionary act. The issue at hand is whether or not that discretionary act should be activated.

I don't believe there should be much if any discretion in respecting the rights of any man allowed to walk the streets unsupervised. He has served his time (minimal as it may have been) and not been in criminal legal trouble for decades, it seems. I believe his rights should be respected. If the "pardon" is the only legal means available to do that, then it should be granted.

And we should be working to remove the lifetime bar on rights, including RKBA.

Restoration of rights should be automatic or all but once a man is freed from jail and completed his parole.


stay safe.

And you as well.

Charles
 
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