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Thread: HJ508: Constitutional amendment (first resolution); right to keep and bear arms.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    HJ508: Constitutional amendment (first resolution); right to keep and bear arms.

    This is from Mark Cole:

    Constitutional amendment (first resolution); right to keep and bear arms.
    The right to keep and bear arms conferred by this section is an individual right and guarantees the right of an individual to keep and bear arms for defense of self, others, or property or for any other lawful purpose.
    I don't see that language as helpful. It might even be harmful.

    ... conferred?

    This natural right predates our constitution.
    Last edited by Repeater; 12-06-2014 at 04:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    <snip>

    This natural right predates our constitution.
    And our constitution respects this in 9th amendment.

    No law can abrogate a right....such laws are void.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    This natural right predates our constitution.
    Once it was cited in a constitution then the constitution must be continually amended as the language and culture evolves.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    "defense of property" would be a new VA use of arms.
    *I am not a lawyer. Nothing from me shall be construed as a magic cloak of legal advice. It's ultimately your tucas that's on the line. Keep examining the law anyway. The gov't, made up of people like us, is supposed to work for us, not against us. Let's find, correct, and avoid the wrongs before they're actively used against us, or we become innocently trapped by them. We're to be the masters. Let's vigilantly keep tabs on our servants who seek to rule us.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Arggh! This is political grandstanding. Put some teeth into it!!

    We have these rights already. We might think this conveys a right to use deadly force in defense of our property, but I guarantee that the first time the PO-PO are dumped in a no-knock warrant, the gig will be up in a nano-second.

    Put some teeth into it!

    Forbid the cooperation of the Commonwealth or any of her political subdivisions with any federal agency or agency from any other state or any non governmental agency or private company in any endeavor or action that diminishes of attempts to diminish Article 1 Section 13 of the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Virginia.

    Forbid the cooperation of the Commonwealth or any of her political subdivisions with any federal agency or agency from any other state or any non governmental agency or private company in any endeavor or action that diminishes the right of Citizens of the Commonwealth to travel on public transportation that services Virginia, while exercising their Article 1 Section 13 rights, with an appropriate exemption for commercial airline travel.

    Identify the pre existing rights enumerated under Article 1 Section 13 and the US 2 A as fundamental, self executing civil rights. Forbid cooperation with any entity exercising law enforcement or judicial powers that does not provide equal civil rights protections to all of the civil rights of citizens and those legally present in the United States.

    Grant the legislature power to regulate concealed carry of firearms only when the regulation grants equal privilege to all that are legally present in the Commonwealth.

    Forbid the legislature from regulation of the open carry of arms.

    Forbid the regulation of non-commercial sales of firearms between law abiding citizens of the Commonwealth, residents of the Commonwealth and members of the US armed forces and their dependents.

    For situations where the rights under Article 1 Section 13 are suspended, such as in airports, courts or when private business owners forbid the bearing of arms, the entity that forbids the free exercise of the people to defend themselves shall assume the responsibility to defend the disarmed populace, be strictly liable for any inadequacy in that defense and in the case of private companies, the legislature may require civilian disarmament insurance to ensure that there are adequate funds to compensate the victims of a companies failure to adequately protect.

    For the continued vitality of the militia, identify the right of the people to produce firearms for the state militia which are free from federal regulation. (Perhaps this should be a separate amendment)
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    We have these rights already. We might think this conveys a right to use deadly force in defense of our property, but I guarantee that the first time the PO-PO are dumped in a no-knock warrant, the gig will be up in a nano-second.

    Put some teeth into it!

    Forbid the cooperation of the Commonwealth or any of her political subdivisions with any federal agency or agency from any other state or any non governmental agency or private company in any endeavor or action that diminishes of attempts to diminish Article 1 Section 13 of the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Virginia.

    Forbid the cooperation of the Commonwealth or any of her political subdivisions with any federal agency or agency from any other state or any non governmental agency or private company in any endeavor or action that diminishes the right of Citizens of the Commonwealth to travel on public transportation that services Virginia, while exercising their Article 1 Section 13 rights, with an appropriate exemption for commercial airline travel.

    Identify the pre existing rights enumerated under Article 1 Section 13 and the US 2 A as fundamental, self executing civil rights. Forbid cooperation with any entity exercising law enforcement or judicial powers that does not provide equal civil rights protections to all of the civil rights of citizens and those legally present in the United States.

    Grant the legislature power to regulate concealed carry of firearms only when the regulation grants equal privilege to all that are legally present in the Commonwealth.

    Forbid the legislature from regulation of the open carry of arms.

    Forbid the regulation of non-commercial sales of firearms between law abiding citizens of the Commonwealth, residents of the Commonwealth and members of the US armed forces and their dependents.

    For situations where the rights under Article 1 Section 13 are suspended, such as in airports, courts or when private business owners forbid the bearing of arms, the entity that forbids the free exercise of the people to defend themselves shall assume the responsibility to defend the disarmed populace, be strictly liable for any inadequacy in that defense and in the case of private companies, the legislature may require civilian disarmament insurance to ensure that there are adequate funds to compensate the victims of a companies failure to adequately protect.

    For the continued vitality of the militia, identify the right of the people to produce firearms for the state militia which are free from federal regulation. (Perhaps this should be a separate amendment)
    Exactly !!!!!!!!!

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    So who has contacted Delegate Cole with these suggestions for amending his pre-filing?

    https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/leg...e?111+mbr+H142

    With Thundar's permission I would like to essentially copy-paste his post. I do think, however, that a resident of House District 88 ought to be contacting Delegate Cole as well.

    stay safe.

    ETA: I'm going to figure out how to incorporate this http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...000+cod+19.2-8 into the revision.

    Prosecution of nonfelonious offenses which constitute malfeasance in office shall commence within two years next after the commission of the offense.
    Usually I am against creating new criminal acts via legislation but the call for teeth pointed me in this direction because of the additional consequences of being convicted of malfeasance. Since we are amending the Constitution anyhow, we might as well add local office holders to Article 4, Section 17:

    Section 17. Impeachment.

    The Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Attorney General, judges, members of the State Corporation Commission, and all officers appointed by the Governor or elected by the General Assembly, offending against the Commonwealth by malfeasance in office, corruption, neglect of duty, or other high crime or misdemeanor may be impeached by the House of Delegates and prosecuted before the Senate, which shall have the sole power to try impeachments. When sitting for that purpose, the senators shall be on oath or affirmation, and no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two-thirds of the senators present. Judgment in case of impeachment shall not extend further than removal from office and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit under the Commonwealth; but the person convicted shall nevertheless be subject to indictment, trial, judgment, and punishment according to law. The Senate may sit during the recess of the General Assembly for the trial of impeachments.
    (emphasis added)
    Last edited by skidmark; 12-07-2014 at 09:51 AM. Reason: additional info
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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    So who has contacted Delegate Cole with these suggestions for amending his pre-filing?

    https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/leg...e?111+mbr+H142

    With Thundar's permission I would like to essentially copy-paste his post. I do think, however, that a resident of House District 88 ought to be contacting Delegate Cole as well.
    Skidmark,

    You have my permission to use my posting for any purpose you think is appropriate.

    My delegate is Mame BaCote. Do you think she will cosponser the effort? (Mame BaCote is the delegate that files the library gun ban bill every year.)
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    My delegate is Mame BaCote. Do you think she will cosponser the effort?
    Always a comedian in the house!

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I let Delegate Cole know that his Resolution was being discussed here, and suggested he review the comments. He asked me to post his explanation for the amendment here.

    TFred



    If you can log in and post, can you give them my explanation below:

    The purpose of the proposed amendment to Virginia's Constitution is make sure that future courts understand that the right to keep and bear arms is an individual right separate and distinct from the establishment of a militia. The language in Virginia's Constitution is similar to the 2nd Amendment in that it associates the right with the militia. While courts have ruled in the past that it is an individual right, the left contends that it is not an individual right, but is tied to a militia and should only apply to members of the military or National Guard. I am concerned that a future court will agree with this interpretation and I want to head this off in Virginia.

    Mark L. Cole
    Delegate, 88th District
    Spotsylvania, Stafford, Fredericksburg, and Fauquier
    Web page: www.MarkLCole.com

  11. #11
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Additional reply from Delegate Cole is below.

    TFred



    I agree with them about the "conferred" language too. If it advances in the legislature, we should be able to amend it to say something like "recognized."

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    That'll take some thinking on. I don't like to monkey with the constitution without a lot of reason.

    It's like the provision that says Hunting & Fishing are rights. That would have been perfect if they hadn't added the part of being subject to the General Assembly. That made it nothing but a meaningless feel good amendment and they could easily do the same with this.

    They could make it a right for CHP holders.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    That'll take some thinking on. I don't like to monkey with the constitution without a lot of reason.

    It's like the provision that says Hunting & Fishing are rights. That would have been perfect if they hadn't added the part of being subject to the General Assembly. That made it nothing but a meaningless feel good amendment and they could easily do the same with this.
    That is EXACTLY right. Heed the warning by our esteemed poster.

    +1 x 1,000,000.

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