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Thread: Alexandria PD targeting Gun owners "Namely Open Carriers"

  1. #1
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Alexandria PD targeting Gun owners "Namely Open Carriers"

    VA-ALERT: ACTION ITEM: Alexandria PD targeting gun owners!


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    The Alexandria police department has its officers going business to business, providing a flyer with **misinformation** on Virginia’s gun laws, targeting mostly open carry.

    Unfortunately for the police, a VCDL member was present when they came into a restaurant this morning, handed a flyer to the owner, and chatted with the owner for a few minutes.

    Afterward, the restaurant owner showed the VCDL member the flyer and said that the police told him that he didn’t have to allow open carry and if he saw somebody doing so, he could call the police!

    While true - a business owner can call the police to enforce a trespass charge - it is certainly out of the ordinary for the police come into a business out of the blue and encourage a business owner to infringe on his customer's civil liberties.

    The flyer particularly endangers 18 to 20 year olds as it incorrectly tells a store owner that if they see someone under 21-years-old with a handgun on their hip, that is illegal! That is NOT true and having the police show up on a bogus “man with a gun” call endangers everyone unnecessarily.

    The flyer also makes these other FALSE claims about the law, which again could lead to unnecessary man-with-a-gun calls to the police:

    * Open carry is not legal in churches

    * Open carry is not legal in government buildings (we’ll show that’s not true when we flood their city hall on Saturday, December 13th - see below).

    The flyer makes a point of saying that sometimes gun owners hold “demonstrations or events” to raise awareness of the constitutional right to keep and bear arms and those events “may cause alarm” and to call the police if the store owner sees “anything suspicious or of concern."

    Aside from the blatant falsehoods, the flyer appears designed to demonize lawful open carry and to confuse and scare the business into calling the police to confront law-abiding gun owners. It does this by citing laws regarding reckless gun handling to paint a frightening image of gun owners brandishing and shooting up his establishment!

    The police, of all people, should NOT mislead the public or actively seek to create a chilling effect on the exercise of civil liberties.

    --

    You can see a copy of the offending flyer by clicking here:

    https://vcdl.org/sites/default/files...dria_Flyer.jpg


    ACTION ITEMS

    1. So openly carried guns aren’t allowed in government buildings? Let’s flood City Hall with gun owners wearing “Guns Save Lives” stickers on Saturday, December 13th from 9:30 AM to 10 AM during the public comment
    period. I will certainly be open carrying to make the point that it is NOT illegal and hopefully educate the police at the same time. I will also address City Council about the egregiousness of the police targeting law-abiding gun owners exercising their right to openly carry handguns.

    Address:

    City Hall
    Council Chamber
    301 King Street
    Alexandria, VA 22314

    A big turnout would send a strong message that Virginia gun owners do not appreciate being discriminated against or having the police disseminating blatantly false, misleading, and inflammatory information to the public on gun laws.

    2. Let’s also flood City Council with webmail. Click here:

    http://request.alexandriava.gov/CCC/#tab...rvice=CNC_GROUP

    or

    http://tinyurl.com/lglaus8

    Suggested comment:

    The Alexandria police are providing false, misleading, and inflammatory flyers to businesses about gun owners openly carrying handguns. It is not the role of the police to foment public bias against gun owners. Direct the police department to stop handing out the offending flyers and spend their time looking for criminals instead of encouraging unnecessary confrontations with law-abiding citizens who are doing nothing more than exercising an important civil right.

    --

    If you are planning on attending the City Council hearing, respond to this and let me know. Thanks!
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    When I read that Marco the first thing I wanted t do was FOIA the flyer or card they were giving out. There simply isn't enough information to tell th PD what I'm after. They're famous for just saying they can't locate it.

    Then I thought about the planned demonstration on the 13th. Why the hurry?
    These demonstrations need a lot of participation and historically, short notice yields low attendance.

    A large showing would be great and send a message from angry, responsible gun owners.

    A small crowd will only be looked at as a handful of nuts.

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    When South Carolina's Law Abiding Citizens Self Defense Act of 1996 was new, gun carry made legal for the first time in the modern era, the state chamber of commerce presented itself as quasi-governmental and passed out gun busters with the warning of liability without one. SC LAC had to put up with it until legislation demanding precise signage could be enacted, signage intended to not be easily reproduced.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Looks like Philip went into more detail today.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    When I read that Marco the first thing I wanted t do was FOIA the flyer or card they were giving out. There simply isn't enough information to tell th PD what I'm after. They're famous for just saying they can't locate it.

    Then I thought about the planned demonstration on the 13th. Why the hurry?
    These demonstrations need a lot of participation and historically, short notice yields low attendance.

    A large showing would be great and send a message from angry, responsible gun owners.

    A small crowd will only be looked at as a handful of nuts.

    AGREED.
    That is why I posted on here and VAGT, hoping to get folks that don't receive the ALERTS.
    Looks like the kids and I'll be in NOVA all day Saturday, first for these fools and Fredericksburg for the gun buying.








    __________________________________________________ _______________________________

    VA-ALERT: VCDL Update 12/8/14‏
    **************************************************
    2. More on Alexandria
    **************************************************

    So far we have 21 people who said they are coming to the Alexandria City Council hearing on Saturday. Not bad considering the alert went out on Saturday at 10 PM. Hopefully we can get more to come as the date nears.

    BTW, here is a link to a copy of the incendiary flyer directly from the Alexandria Police Department's web site (thanks to member Charles Winkler for the link):

    http://alexandriava.gov/uploadedFiles/police/info/OPEN%20CARRY%20VA.pdf

    The Alexandria PD responded with an attempt to cover their exposed derrière:

    "This flyer was provided to businesses in the area of a possible open carry demonstration to inform people of Virginia Law regarding open carry, and it summaries (sic) open carry in the Commonwealth. The flyer actually widens the number of people who now know about Virginia open carry so they are not alarmed about the sight of firearms in public. APD advocates that if anyone is concerned about any situation they call the non-emergency number."

    NO. Thanks to those flyers, the number of people who are now MISINFORMED about Virginia gun laws has INCREASED! Those who read it are now less knowledgeable for having done so.

    And what did open carry education have to do with shooting guns into a building?

    Oh, and we have another issue which is now being pursued: the Alexandria Police Department's headquarters has an illegal "no guns" sign! Stay tuned...
    Last edited by Marco; 12-08-2014 at 11:39 AM. Reason: additonal info
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    The short notice is because that's the date of their next available public hearing, and the only one before January 24. As of this morning, nearly 2 dozen people have indicated intent. I'd be there but for another VCDL commitment that day. I'm sure there will be plenty to get notice.

    People have also been e-mailing and using the facebook page.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Will the cops use really big cuffs for the larger businesses that they arrest?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Perhaps there are some gun friendly restaurants in Alexandria where we could start having open carry breakfast/lunch/dinners.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markand View Post
    Perhaps there are some gun friendly restaurants in Alexandria where we could start having open carry breakfast/lunch/dinners.
    A vast majority are - build it and they will come.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    VA-ALERT: Alexandria PD doubles-down on illegal "no guns" sign‏

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    I'll say this, VCDL, you certainly got Alexandria's attention with the hundreds (the value they used) of phone calls and emails!

    But there's good news and bad news relative to the City of Alexandria and WE STILL NEED TO BE AT THE HEARING on Saturday morning.

    THE GOOD NEWS FIRST

    The Alexandria Police Department has accepted responsibility and totally redone their flyer, providing this explanation:

    -

    OPEN CARRY :: Last week, the Alexandria Police Department distributed a
    flyer regarding open carry laws in the Commonwealth of Virginia. The flyer
    was developed to inform Alexandria residents about the rights of people to
    open carry in Virginia. It was also developed to alleviate concerns that we
    received from the public regarding open carry in Alexandria. APD received
    feedback expressing concern about the original document. After a careful
    review, APD has issued a new flyer to provide awareness to this issue.

    The Alexandria Police Department fully supports people exercising their
    rights under Virginia law and we appreciate the public’s assistance and
    feedback on this issue. Our initial effort in providing accurate information
    fell short of our community’s expectations. We regret having put out
    information that may have confused, misinformed or implied that our department was
    somehow trying to target law-abiding citizens.

    We fully recognize that our success is directly related to the strong
    relationship we have with our community. This instance is a great example of
    the public helping us when we misstep and the Department listening to
    constructive feedback. It is this type of relationship that will elevate the public
    ’s trust in our ability to serve them with objectivity, fairness and
    according to the Constitution and the laws we swore an oath to protect.

    -

    This is their NEW flyer:

    http://alexandriava.gov/uploadedFile...CARRY%20VA.pdf



    NOW THE BAD NEWS

    Two major problems that remain. The first problem is why was the original flyer created in the first place, especially with the inflammatory wording that was used?

    The second problem is that while the police department says (above), "...the Alexandria Police Department fully supports people exercising their rights under Virginia law...," what the PD REALLY means is that they support citizens exercising their right to keep and bear arms as long as it is NOT in THEIR police department buildings!

    Ladies and gentlemen, that "no guns" sign on the PD's door is flat-out ILLEGAL under 15.2-915.

    Here is a link to the sign (thanks to EM Ed Levine for the link):

    http://edsfiles.us/images/cityofalexpd.jpg

    The City Attorney's office is saying the sign is going to stay. Why? Well, because THEY SAY SO, of course, silly!

    Good luck with that, Alexandria.

    Right now we have more than 35 gun owners who have told me they will be at the Alexandria hearing THIS Saturday, December 13, at 9:30 AM.

    We need a good turnout to send these two messages:

    1. Alexandria, we're glad you fixed that horrible flyer. Please make sure that all businesses who received the old flyer get a copy of the new one. Oh, and don't disseminate any more gun-law flyers in the future, please.

    2. The "no guns" sign on the PD door is ILLEGAL. It needs to be removed immediately or VCDL will take the City to court under a violation of Virginia's firearms preemption laws. After we win, the sign will come down anyhow, but the City will end up paying VCDL's legal fees, as provided for under the preemption law.

    For those wishing to attend, here is the address for the hearing again:

    City Hall
    Council Chamber
    301 King Street
    Alexandria, VA 22314

    I plan to be at the hearing early to hand out "Guns Save Lives" stickers to the attending gun owners and to present the City Council with VCDL Carry Cards that CORRECTLY report where one can & cannot carry. We'll initially gather inside the front doors, or if that isn't possible, either outside the hearing room or outside the front doors, worst case. As a local government building, carry is allowed if you so choose.

    NOTE: VCDL provides VCDL Carry Cards FREE to other police departments throughout the Commonwealth. It's a shame that the Alexandria Police Department is not yet on the distribution for these informational cards because it would have saved them a lot of embarrassment over their flawed flyer.

    I look forward to seeing you there Saturday morning.


    -------------------------------------------
    ************************************************** *************************
    VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization
    dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to
    Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

    VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Thanks Marco. I'm watching this and the buyback issue very carefully to see if VCDL has come out of their coma.

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    It is, so sad that so many employed by the People have forgot their place.



    The flyer appears designed to demonize lawful open carry and to confuse and scare the business into calling the police to confront law-abiding gun owners.

    “The carrying of arms in a quiet, peaceable, and orderly manner, concealed on or about the person, is not a breach of the peace. Nor does such an act of itself, lead to a breach of the peace.” (Wharton’s Criminal and Civil Procedure, 12th Ed., Vol.2: Judy v. Lashley, 5 W. Va. 628, 41 S.E. 197).


    “Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).



    http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Regular Member JohnM15A's Avatar
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    I'm not no terribly familiar with the area, looking at Google maps there is street parking and parking under Market Square. Is the parking under market Square open to the public and is it usually open?
    "Just because I'm paranoid does not mean they are not out to get me"
    NRA Lifetime Member

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnM15A View Post
    I'm not no terribly familiar with the area, looking at Google maps there is street parking and parking under Market Square. Is the parking under market Square open to the public and is it usually open?
    Market Square, 301 King Street. (Map This)
    Saturdays, 7:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. year round.
    Free parking in the Market Square garage Farmers' Market hours
    http://alexandriava.gov/FarmersMarket.html

    The Market Square Garage located underneath Town Hall at 108 N. Fairfax Street. Parking is only $5 all day on Saturdays and Sundays, $5 all evening during the week after 5 p.m., and $2.50 per hour or $10 all day during the week before 5 p.m.Meters accept credit cards and coins at a cost of $1.75/hour. It is generally free after 9 p.m. and on Sundays and holidays.
    http://refreshyogacenter.com/location
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    It is, so sad that so many employed by the People have forgot their place.



    The flyer appears designed to demonize lawful open carry and to confuse and scare the business into calling the police to confront law-abiding gun owners.

    “The carrying of arms in a quiet, peaceable, and orderly manner, concealed on or about the person, is not a breach of the peace. Nor does such an act of itself, lead to a breach of the peace.” (Wharton’s Criminal and Civil Procedure, 12th Ed., Vol.2: Judy v. Lashley, 5 W. Va. 628, 41 S.E. 197).


    “Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).



    http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm
    I'm thinking now, with all this official lawlessness going on, the time has come for the Commonwealth to have a Misconduct in Office law of its own. As an example, please review the statute from Scott Walker's Wisconsin:

    946.12Misconduct in public office. Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:
    (1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer's or employee's office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law; or

    (2) In the officer's or employee's capacity as such officer or employee, does an act which the officer or employee knows is in excess of the officer's or employee's lawful authority or which the officer or employee knows the officer or employee is forbidden by law to do in the officer's or employee's official capacity; or

    (3) Whether by act of commission or omission, in the officer's or employee's capacity as such officer or employee exercises a discretionary power in a manner inconsistent with the duties of the officer's or employee's office or employment or the rights of others and with intent to obtain a dishonest advantage for the officer or employee or another; or

    (4) In the officer's or employee's capacity as such officer or employee, makes an entry in an account or record book or return, certificate, report or statement which in a material respect the officer or employee intentionally falsifies; or

    (5) Under color of the officer's or employee's office or employment, intentionally solicits or accepts for the performance of any service or duty anything of value which the officer or employee knows is greater or less than is fixed by law.
    In another Code section:
    946.18  Misconduct sections apply to all public officers. Sections 946.10 to 946.17 apply to public officers, whether legally constituted or exercising powers as if legally constituted.
    I think we need something like this.

  16. #16
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    I'm thinking now, with all this official lawlessness going on, the time has come for the Commonwealth to have a Misconduct in Office law of its own. As an example, please review the statute from Scott Walker's Wisconsin:

    --snipped--

    I think we need something like this.
    Agree whole heartedly - a penalty with real teeth in it!
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Agree whole heartedly - a penalty with real teeth in it!
    We, the people, need our servants to fear us -- if they betray us:


    Misconduct in Office: A Class 1 Felony

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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    We, the people, need our servants to fear us -- if they betray us:


    Misconduct in Office: A Class 1 Felony
    Never get a conviction under the current statue IMO.

    Now if you can find out that a lawyer approved the "flyer" then you can file a complaint with the bar assoc (or similar grievance agency) against the lawyer .... usually costs nothing.

    Right now, the investigation appears to be in its infancy. Continue on.

  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    FIFY
    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    We, the people, need our servants to fear us -- if so that they won't betray us:


    Misconduct in Office: A Class 1 Felony
    Nice doggy.......nice doggy
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    FIFY


    Nice doggy.......nice doggy
    Ah, much improved!

    Such brilliance -- I need shades

  21. #21
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Never get a conviction under the current statue IMO.
    Under which "statue" will anyone get a conviction? I was not aware that convictions were stored under statues. Is this a Connecticut thing?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Under which "statue" will anyone get a conviction? I was not aware that convictions were stored under statues. Is this a Connecticut thing?
    Never mind...I can't read.....
    Last edited by notalawyer; 12-12-2014 at 05:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Under which "statue" will anyone get a conviction? I was not aware that convictions were stored under statues. Is this a Connecticut thing?
    Whaaaat?

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