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Thread: The police claims that this video exonerates them .... what do you think?

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    The police claims that this video exonerates them .... what do you think?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2t_JMjtYUQ

    Wish I had a 1080 vid.

    But the guy shot is alleged to have just stabbed someone to death.

    So, do cameras help?
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 12-09-2014 at 05:09 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2t_JMjtYUQ

    Wish I had a 1080 vid.

    But the guy shot is alleged to have just stabbed someone to death.

    So, do cameras help?
    No knee jerk here.
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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    If I'm not mistaken, the guy had his hands up. I didn't see any threatening movement either.

    Probably another victim of the "Tueller Rule." Guy stabs someone to death. Guy comes back to the crime scene apparently to turn himself in. Guy is within 21 feet and is known to have had a knife, although I don't see one in his hands. Guy is asked to get on the ground. Guy stands there afraid to move with his hands up and is adequately ventilated by local PD for not following directions.

    Probably justified in the eyes of a GJ.
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    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    While the guy killed took a life, punishment should be dealt out by due process. It would been a big awww poop if the cops had shot the wrong man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, the guy had his hands up. I didn't see any threatening movement either.

    Probably another victim of the "Tueller Rule." Guy stabs someone to death. Guy comes back to the crime scene apparently to turn himself in. Guy is within 21 feet and is known to have had a knife, although I don't see one in his hands. Guy is asked to get on the ground. Guy stands there afraid to move with his hands up and is adequately ventilated by local PD for not following directions.

    Probably justified in the eyes of a GJ.
    Ventilation complete !

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    Just one more cold blooded murder caught on tape that NOONE will be held accountable for.

    Here is another from Yesterday in NYC. Dude puts down the knife and the cops play with themselves until he decides to pick it up again. COMPLETE incompetence on the part of the NYPD "officers" in this video. WTF were they doing after he put down the knife?????? It's like they wanted him to pick it up again.


    NYPD Cops Shoot Synagogue Attacker
    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=761_1418120912

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    Regular Member BlueSquid's Avatar
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    For the life of me I couldn't count how many shots were fired, what with there being 3 guns trained on him, but I'm fairly certain there were at least 10-15. At that range, a lot of those had to have hit their mark. Then one of the cops says after "He's got blood on him." Really? Ya don't say? Not sure how that's supposed to prove that he stabbed anybody. I mean, yeah if you stabbed someone, you're probably going to have blood on you. But last I checked, having 3 people that supposedly train in the accurate use of a firearm do a mag dump on you will probably produce some blood, too.

    I want to say the video quality is too poor to draw any kind of armchair lawyer conclusions, but I'm having a hard time even conceding that, given what you can see. But, since I don't know the whole story, I'm still not comfortable letting myself form an opinion one way or the other. Either way, though, he did look compliant, and it'd be nice to have seen him get his due process.

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    The magdump is just classic. Guy dropped after the first shot from what I saw. Give those brave heroes medals!
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    The magdump is just classic.
    Trained "Professionals".............................

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    The magdump is just classic. Guy dropped after the first shot from what I saw. Give those brave heroes medals!
    Why did you shoot the guy FIFTEEN times?

    Urrr, we ran outta bullets boss.

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    When I went through Glock transition instructor training the Glock factory instructor team Basically was teaching mag dumps. If the suspect didn't drop immediately.

    That was directly opposite what we had been teaching for decades fire a few rounds a quick evaluation then shoot some more if needed.

    But one has to remember that many rounds can be fired in a very short time period even with a quick evaluation with 3 shooters even more so.

    If shooting is justifiable the number of rounds fired isn't important as long as the firing stops when the threat stops and innocents are not hit.

    I don't think any body here wants to be held to the standard of firing one or two rounds then having to wait certain time period to see if their rounds were effective.

    For those that haven't done any force on force training with sim rounds or air soft they really should it is a real eye opener. Not only in the number of rounds one fires but in general firearms handing when the adrenalin is up.

    For those wondering I wasn't able to watch this video computer problems. But in general in most shootings the thoughts above should apply.
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    I was able to pull the video up and after stopping the action many times one can see that they start issuing commands at 650 at 700 the suspects starts movements at 703 the shooting starts at 704 the suspect falls out of sight.

    The officers continue to shoot until 707 4 seconds of shooting one can not tell what the suspect is doing on the ground is he just laying there or trying to get up?

    So we have a armed suspect not listening to commands starts movements while still armed and gets shot.

    So after 13 seconds of being told to drop the knife or weapon he moves and gets shot.

    The question remains how long does one wait before defending one self.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    I was able to pull the video up and after stopping the action many times one can see that they start issuing commands at 650 at 700 the suspects starts movements at 703 the shooting starts at 704 the suspect falls out of sight.

    The officers continue to shoot until 707 4 seconds of shooting one can not tell what the suspect is doing on the ground is he just laying there or trying to get up?

    So we have a armed suspect not listening to commands starts movements while still armed and gets shot.

    So after 13 seconds of being told to drop the knife or weapon he moves and gets shot.

    The question remains how long does one wait before defending one self.
    Precisely AND w/only that singular perspective (grainy video) is why no knee jerk response warranted IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Precisely AND w/only that singular perspective (grainy video) is why no knee jerk response warranted IMO.
    The grainy video was provide by the state-they could have provided a 1080 one but if they did, I cannot find it.

    also, its likely the only evidence that does not have an interest in the case as opposed to statements of people

    so folks are free to make judgments

    and this was released by the state (gov't) meaning its the best evidence they got to support the killing. If that's the best, I'll have to say its murder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post

    and this was released by the state (gov't) meaning its the best evidence they got to support the killing. If that's the best, I'll have to say its murder.
    No it means it released the video not that it is there only evidence.
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    I watched the video, and while in the video I see the man holding his hands up, the video does not include a lot of important info we fail to see.

    What is the environment here? What is going on inside and outside the store? What is going on between the officers?
    Then consider the video is not "right there" at the shooting, but a short distance from it. You're getting video, yes, but it's a third party viewer, not on the man or the officers. So unless there is an audio recording of "right there", we don't know what all was said, just what the car recorder got.
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    The first question I have is did the man have a knife ? It looks to me like he had one in his left hand.

    However, it didn't appear the man made any movements towards police.

    The police will often say "he failed to drop the knife" but I say so what. Until he makes a threatening move he isn't a threat.

    BUT.... the man had just stabbed someone to death and comes back to the scene holding a knife in his hand. For me personally, this is a case where I would give 1 or 2 commands to drop the knife and then shoot.

    I also think this whole 21 foot rule is nonsense. With 3 officers there the guy wouldn't have made it more than 2 feet if he charged.

    Overall verdict...I would say shooting is justified (and I hate police)

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    On one of the other reports on this there was a claim of the man holding the knife moving to within 10-12 feet of the officers---- In my viewing of the linked video, I don't see the man with his hands up moving forward but rather the officers moving toward him. Admitting, a vehicle obscures the man's lower half so one in unable to see his feet but his position relative to the car doesn't change. Any movement toward the officers made by this man is BEFORE they draw on him and long before they open fire!

    ETA: Man in white t-shirt is seen standing at the side of the building on the video at about the 6 min mark, at about 6:51 an officer draws on him and sends another person into the store, near the same time another man obstructs the car video camera view of the man in the white t-shirt for about 4 seconds, about 6:55 a second officer exits store and draws on man at a closer distance than the 1st officer. About 6:57 third officer (seems to be female) exits store and approaches even closer to the man in t-shirt while drawing weapon. Shortly after while many commands seem to be shouted simultaneously all 3 officers seem to do mag dumps on the STATIONARY man. Doesn't seem like much more than 2 seconds elapse between the shouted commands and the shooting begins.

    I see it as this: Man shot was NOT actively approaching the officers, but rather each officer engaging him did so at a closer distance than any of the previous officers. Simultaneous commands and near immediate discharge of weapons did not give him a change to obey the commands (were there conflicting commands given? I don't know but someone could possibly break down all the individual voices on this 10 seconds of video--- I don't have those skills, but someone does!)
    Agreed it was not wise of this man to have a knife in his hand this close to the scene of a stabbing. Was he doing a suicide by cop? I don't know!
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 12-12-2014 at 03:15 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NosePicker View Post
    The first question I have is did the man have a knife ? It looks to me like he had one in his left hand.

    However, it didn't appear the man made any movements towards police.

    The police will often say "he failed to drop the knife" but I say so what. Until he makes a threatening move he isn't a threat.

    BUT.... the man had just stabbed someone to death and comes back to the scene holding a knife in his hand. For me personally, this is a case where I would give 1 or 2 commands to drop the knife and then shoot.

    I also think this whole 21 foot rule is nonsense. With 3 officers there the guy wouldn't have made it more than 2 feet if he charged.

    Overall verdict...I would say shooting is justified (and I hate police)
    Until the guy actually poses a threat beyond not obeying a cop's order I don't see it justified. But that's just me.

    The 21 ft is meaningless, they had their guns ready and would have gotten him well before he got them.

    These cops need to spend some time in my old neighborhood. Get some nerves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NosePicker View Post
    The first question I have is did the man have a knife ? It looks to me like he had one in his left hand.

    However, it didn't appear the man made any movements towards police.

    The police will often say "he failed to drop the knife" but I say so what. Until he makes a threatening move he isn't a threat.

    BUT.... the man had just stabbed someone to death and comes back to the scene holding a knife in his hand. For me personally, this is a case where I would give 1 or 2 commands to drop the knife and then shoot.

    I also think this whole 21 foot rule is nonsense. With 3 officers there the guy wouldn't have made it more than 2 feet if he charged.

    Overall verdict...I would say shooting is justified (and I hate police)
    I agree with you on the 21 foot rule once the OFFICERS HAD DRAWN THEIR WEAPONS which the first on did almost 10 seconds before the shooting began. Please see my previous post for further.
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 12-12-2014 at 03:18 AM.
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    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
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    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Another failure of communication.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSquid View Post
    For the life of me I couldn't count how many shots were fired, what with there being 3 guns trained on him, but I'm fairly certain there were at least 10-15. At that range, a lot of those had to have hit their mark. Then one of the cops says after "He's got blood on him." Really? Ya don't say? Not sure how that's supposed to prove that he stabbed anybody. I mean, yeah if you stabbed someone, you're probably going to have blood on you. But last I checked, having 3 people that supposedly train in the accurate use of a firearm do a mag dump on you will probably produce some blood, too.

    I want to say the video quality is too poor to draw any kind of armchair lawyer conclusions, but I'm having a hard time even conceding that, given what you can see. But, since I don't know the whole story, I'm still not comfortable letting myself form an opinion one way or the other. Either way, though, he did look compliant, and it'd be nice to have seen him get his due process.
    Or you have just been skinning your hunting harvest, slaughtering chickens, skinning rabbit, or any number of meat related activities. Or he could have just been shot by the police and they noticed that their bullets flying into him caused his blood to leak out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    Another failure of communication.
    Punishable by death. I'm really not crying over the guy who got killed but of our constitution that also got injured.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Punishable by death. I'm really not crying over the guy who got killed but of our constitution that also got injured.
    How so?
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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    How so?
    Probably the right to due process, but who the hell cares about that anymore AMIRITE?
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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