• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

The police claims that this video exonerates them .... what do you think?

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,462
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
For the life of me I couldn't count how many shots were fired, what with there being 3 guns trained on him, but I'm fairly certain there were at least 10-15. At that range, a lot of those had to have hit their mark. Then one of the cops says after "He's got blood on him." Really? Ya don't say? Not sure how that's supposed to prove that he stabbed anybody. I mean, yeah if you stabbed someone, you're probably going to have blood on you. But last I checked, having 3 people that supposedly train in the accurate use of a firearm do a mag dump on you will probably produce some blood, too.

I want to say the video quality is too poor to draw any kind of armchair lawyer conclusions, but I'm having a hard time even conceding that, given what you can see. But, since I don't know the whole story, I'm still not comfortable letting myself form an opinion one way or the other. Either way, though, he did look compliant, and it'd be nice to have seen him get his due process.

Or you have just been skinning your hunting harvest, slaughtering chickens, skinning rabbit, or any number of meat related activities. Or he could have just been shot by the police and they noticed that their bullets flying into him caused his blood to leak out.
 

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
Well the black guy didn't immediately obey the cops commands and that IS a justification for them to murder you. So yes.
This mindset is appalling. Absolutely sick.

Clearly you guys are very serious since no smiley faces nor label as sarcasm.

This is why the country is going down the tubes. Mindsets like this.
He was a disgusting criminal, which have no right to due process, he deserved to be sentenced and executed on sight.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
This mindset is appalling. Absolutely sick.
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by twoskinsonemanns
Well the black guy didn't immediately obey the cops commands and that IS a justification for them to murder you. So yes.


This mindset is appalling. Absolutely sick.

Clearly you guys are very serious since no smiley faces nor label as sarcasm.

This is why the country is going down the tubes. Mindsets like this.
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by WalkingWolf

He was a disgusting criminal, which have no right to due process, he deserved to be sentenced and executed on sight.
I think you know better than that, at least you should. Sometimes emoticons/smilies or reference to sarcasm just isn't necessary - we've traveled down this road so often that we can navigate it blindfolded, reach our destination, and get our point across w/o breaking our stride.
 

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
This mindset is appalling. Absolutely sick.



This mindset is appalling. Absolutely sick.
<snip>

I think that the mindset is a result of continual disregard of the justice system when it looks at cops as they cannot do anything wrong. Its not true, only half-true IMO ... but its leaning towards a totalitarian view of gov't actions against individuals.

I hardly think its "sick" at all.

I see strong resemblance of US LEO's actions to those in Ireland years ago...this and the speech of public officials trying to intimidate citizens by their various words and deeds may lead to bombings of police stations and other public buildings. The LEO world should know that this is a real possibility and wake up and stop the path which they are embarking upon.
 
Last edited:

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
It is simple, is due process a constitutional right or is it not? I get so tired of hearing how this person or that person deserved to die, we have a justice system that would work if used. Especially in this case.

From what I saw of the video it looked like an execution. I have had knives pulled on me several times, and not once did I need to shoot the offender. The 21 foot rule is for a holstered weapon, theirs were drawn and pointed at the suspect. They had leeway, they instead decided to shoot. It will be ruled justified, but just remember it could happen to YOUR family member if they are mistaken for somebody else. We have seen this in too many cases to count.

Respect law enforcement when they do the job professionally and when they are serving the public and justice system. IMO it is an embarrassment to good officers when some officers decide they are god and decide justice instead of the courts.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
davidmcbeth said:
I think that the mindset is a result of continual disregard of the justice system when it looks at cops as they cannot do anything wrong. Its not true, only half-true IMO ... but its leaning towards a totalitarian view of gov't actions against individuals.

I hardly think its "sick" at all.

I see strong resemblance of US LEO's actions to those in Ireland years ago...this and the speech of public officials trying to intimidate citizens by their various words and deeds may lead to bombings of police stations and other public buildings. The LEO world should know that this is a real possibility and wake up and stop the path which they are embarking upon.

A cop that does not respect the people S/he serves and thinks that because they believe a person is bad gives them license to kill and maim are POS. They are an embarrassment to the rest of LE. I hope that officers wake up before it is too late and start holding fellow officers to the same light as the public.
 
Last edited:

Logan 5

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
696
Location
Utah
This mindset is appalling. Absolutely sick.



This mindset is appalling. Absolutely sick.

Clearly you guys are very serious since no smiley faces nor label as sarcasm.

This is why the country is going down the tubes. Mindsets like this.

Uh, some of the people here train cops to behave in that manner as it is, so it's a losing battle when you have the enemy within the gates.

IMO we should give unto those that give unto us. If they are nice and polite and respectful, give it back like that. If the cop drags you out of your car and beats you just for asking "why", do the same to him.
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
I think you know better than that, at least you should. Sometimes emoticons/smilies or reference to sarcasm just isn't necessary - we've traveled down this road so often that we can navigate it blindfolded, reach our destination, and get our point across w/o breaking our stride.

:D
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
QUOTE=Logan 5;2114811]
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Grapeshot

<snip> If they are nice and polite and respectful, give it back like that. If the cop drags you out of your car and beats you just for asking "why", do the same to him.
Unless u are breaking the law, the cops should never even talk to you...


I DID NOT make the statement you attribute to me. That was made by Logan 5 and I totally disagree.

(16) NO FALSE ATTRIBUTIONS: Editing quoted posts by another member to make it appear as if they said something other than what they intended will NOT be tolerated!


I have no problem having general conversations with LEOs, firemen, auto mechanics - people from all walks of life. I do so everyday.
 
Last edited:

davidmcbeth

Banned
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,167
Location
earth's crust
I DID NOT make the statement you attribute to me. That was made by Logan 5 and I totally disagree.

(16) NO FALSE ATTRIBUTIONS: Editing quoted posts by another member to make it appear as if they said something other than what they intended will NOT be tolerated!


I have no problem having general conversations with LEOs, firemen, auto mechanics - people from all walks of life. I do so everyday.

Ha, you are correct and it was logan 5's quote.


Seems to have been a remnant that attributed it to you. Simple error.
 

Firearms Iinstuctor

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
3,428
Location
northern wis
From what I saw of the video it looked like an execution. I have had knives pulled on me several times, and not once did I need to shoot the offender. The 21 foot rule is for a holstered weapon, theirs were drawn and pointed at the suspect. They had leeway, they instead decided to shoot. It will be ruled justified, but just remember it could happen to YOUR family member if they are mistaken for somebody else. We have seen this in too many cases to count.

Respect law enforcement when they do the job professionally and when they are serving the public and justice system. IMO it is an embarrassment to good officers when some officers decide they are god and decide justice instead of the courts.

I too had during my career have had one person actual pull a knife he thought better of his actions while looking at my 357.

I would have shot him if he hadn't dropped it right now at my first command he was a lot less the 21 feet

One person who tried very hard to get his folding buck knife out of it's case as I was trying to hand cuff him he sustained injuries before he stopped.

I can't remember how many stupide ones threatened or said they had weapons when they actual didn't and wisely thought better of it. A couple of them came with in split seconds of being shot if they hadn't obeyed.

Threating people who have firearms pointed at you while you have weapon or saying you do can and could very well result in you being shot.

What I see in the video is a armed person not obeying commands who decided not to drop his weapon he had plenty of opportunity to do so.

What I can't see his is legs and feet did he start to take a step forward. He fell towards the officers could very well indicate he started moving towards them. What I can't hear is any thing that he was saying his words could very well have a lot to do with why they shot. What I can't see is what he is doing after he fell just laying there or trying to get up and continue.

What I don't know is all the information that the officers knew before hand.

What I can't see is indications of drugs or alcohol both could have been clouding his reasoning. Dopers, drunks and crazy people do not always do the smartest things and tend to do some really stupide things. Again threating people and not obeying commands who have firearms pointed at you is one of them.

What I didn't see is a unarmed man blind folded placed up against a wall and shot execution style.

One can not conclude every thing by just watching the video there is just to much information left out.

Dealing with armed people is very much a situation by situation thing, One could in a career never have to pull the trigger because they handled 999 out of 1000 people that did the right thing and didn't have to be shot. Or they ran into the 1000th the first day on the job and had to shoot them.


Kind of like dealing with bears, saying bears never attack because all the ones I have ran into have not.

But the truth is the next one might or might not ask Timothy Treadwell oh you can't he was killed by one of his friendly bears.

As it happening to a family member depends on ones family I come from a large family I can think of only one and that if he was been drinking and doping who dumb enough to not to obey people who are pointing guns at you in a situation like this.


But again no situation well ever have the same facts some things well be different.


Conclusion there is not enough information just by watching the video to decide if the shooting was justifiable or not.
 
Top