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Thread: open carry when pulled over - informing / not informing the officer - advice wanted

  1. #1
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    open carry when pulled over - informing / not informing the officer - advice wanted

    To make this short and as factual as possible....

    I was pulled over this past weekend while driving.

    Turned truck off, rolled window down, dome light on before the officer even got out of his car.

    The officer informed me the reason for his stop was that I had a headlight out and asked for DL and Insurance. He questioned if I had "anything in the vehicle he needed to be aware about".

    At this point I found myself wondering the following questions:

    Do you have to inform an LEO of open carrying in a vehicle if they do not ask?

    Do you have to tell them there is a firearm in the vehicle if they do ask?

    I informed him I value my privacy and that the contents of what is in my vehicle are not any of his concern. He seemed agitated by this remark response. (sorry but that's his problem).

    He asked a second time.

    Now, keep in mind he didn't ask about a firearm just the "anything that he needed to be aware of/about", but at this point I went ahead and did inform him I was carrying openly on my hip.

    He asked again about anything else, to which I informed him, "no".

    When he returned, he informed me that "it is a lawful request by an LEO, and that you have to tell them if you have a firearm or not in your vehicle" (not going to argue vernacular on this) so I said "ok".

    The stop was without any further problems, rather quick, and no citations issued.

    Please keep in mind that I was professional and respectful to the officer / but not the warm, gonna give him a hug, nice either... LOL


    I'm not "bashing" the officer or anything like that, I just found it odd with the "lawful request" statement he made.

    My own ignorance on the situation, made me think about the above two questions.

    I am not asking for "legal advice" but if someone could point me in the right direction, or to the law stating this matter, I would greatly appreciate it.

    Thanks,
    Last edited by bmhenry; 12-15-2014 at 11:34 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmhenry View Post
    Do you have to inform an LEO of open carrying in a vehicle if they do not ask?
    Do you have to tell them there is a firearm in the vehicle if they do ask?
    Just an out-of-stater's opinion....
    MO Rev Stat 571.121. 1. Any person issued a concealed carry permit pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall carry the concealed carry permit at all times the person is carrying a concealed firearm and shall display the concealed carry permit upon the request of any peace officer. Failure to comply with this subsection shall not be a criminal offense but the concealed carry permit holder may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed thirty-five dollars.
    If you were openly carrying then the above does not apply.

    When he returned, he informed me that "it is a lawful request by an LEO, and that you have to tell them if you have a firearm or not in your vehicle" (not going to argue vernacular on this) so I said "ok".
    Well, of course it was a 'lawful request'; the alternative is he asked you to do something unlawful. That doesn't mean you are required to obey nor act upon it. It's a 'lawful request' that you pass the ketchup, that doesn't mean you have to.
    If he had asked you to display your concealed carry permit, then you would have been lawfully required to comply.... but he didn't.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 12-15-2014 at 12:08 PM.

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    No permit required for a gun in your car.

    No duty to inform.

    You don't have to answer any questions.

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    Fallschirmjäger,

    See that is where I'm "hung up" so to speak. I do have CCW, but was not carrying concealed. Soooo, what is it that I am required by law to do?

    The whole "lawful request" and "have to tell them" thing is a big grey area for me.

    Thanks for your response and take on the matter.



    MO... Thank you for your response as well. That is along with what I was thinking. Is there a link or anything you can provide me with info on the "duty to inform" or is it a case of, there isn't such stated in the RSMO therefore it is not required?

    MO, what response would you have given to his question about "anything he should know about"?? .. response: "I like the cardinals too".. LOL.. just making light fun, but seriously I would like your suggestion.
    Last edited by bmhenry; 12-15-2014 at 12:24 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmhenry View Post
    To make this short and as factual as possible....

    I was pulled over this past weekend while driving.

    Turned truck off, rolled window down, dome light on before the officer even got out of his car.

    The officer informed me the reason for his stop was that I had a headlight out and asked for DL and Insurance. He questioned if I had "anything in the vehicle he needed to be aware about".

    At this point I found myself wondering the following questions:

    Do you have to inform an LEO of open carrying in a vehicle if they do not ask?

    Do you have to tell them there is a firearm in the vehicle if they do ask?

    I informed him I value my privacy and that the contents of what is in my vehicle are not any of his concern. He seemed agitated by this remark response. (sorry but that's his problem).

    He asked a second time.

    Now, keep in mind he didn't ask about a firearm just the "anything that he needed to be aware of/about", but at this point I went ahead and did inform him I was carrying openly on my hip.

    He asked again about anything else, to which I informed him, "no".

    When he returned, he informed me that "it is a lawful request by an LEO, and that you have to tell them if you have a firearm or not in your vehicle" (not going to argue vernacular on this) so I said "ok".

    The stop was without any further problems, rather quick, and no citations issued.

    Please keep in mind that I was professional and respectful to the officer / but not the warm, gonna give him a hug, nice either... LOL


    I'm not "bashing" the officer or anything like that, I just found it odd with the "lawful request" statement he made.

    My own ignorance on the situation, made me think about the above two questions.

    I am not asking for "legal advice" but if someone could point me in the right direction, or to the law stating this matter, I would greatly appreciate it.

    Thanks,
    No, you do not have to inform. The RSMo cited above applies only when you are CC. Being in a vehicle in MO, with a firearm is not CC. Keep the cop focused on the reason for the stop. Your silence does this to a T.

    That cop lied.

    Silent compliance is not unlawful in MO.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    No, you do not have to inform. The RSMo cited above applies only when you are CC. Being in a vehicle in MO, with a firearm is not CC. Keep the cop focused on the reason for the stop. Your silence does this to a T.

    That cop lied.

    Silent compliance is not unlawful in MO.
    Spot on. And this "Do you have anything I need to know about?" is just him fishing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmhenry View Post


    MO... Thank you for your response as well. That is along with what I was thinking. Is there a link or anything you can provide me with info on the "duty to inform" or is it a case of, there isn't such stated in the RSMO therefore it is not required?

    MO, what response would you have given to his question about "anything he should know about"?? .. response: "I like the cardinals too".. LOL.. just making light fun, but seriously I would like your suggestion.
    You're carrying in a completely legal matter, so just just answer no. Again, he asked a very vague question and he was fishing.

    And yes, since RSMO doesn't require informing, you're good to go.

    And I'm glad you chimed in on this forum and welcome. A lot of the other gun forums are full of boot lickers that think talking to police and surrendering rights make them good little citzens.

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    Perfect!! Thanks everyone for your contributions...

    I don't try to be "difficult or fall on my sword" on matters. But then again, it's darn dark out in December at 8 pm; Of course I know my headlight is out, and the "lamp out" on the dash confirmed as such.

    And yes, it just happened a few days ago. Yes, it has been replaced.

    I managed to find this thread in continuing my search.. Whish I would have found it sooner..

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...do-you-any-way
    Last edited by bmhenry; 12-15-2014 at 01:04 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmhenry View Post
    Perfect!! Thanks everyone for your contributions...

    I don't try to be "difficult or fall on my sword" on matters. But then again, it's darn dark out in December at 8 pm; Of course I know my headlight is out, and the "lamp out" on the dash confirmed as such.

    And yes, it just happened a few days ago. Yes, it has been replaced.

    I managed to find this thread in continuing my search.. Whish I would have found it sooner..

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...do-you-any-way
    Changes were made to RSMo571.121 and the wording could be improved. It states that you must present your CCW endorsement/permit and a ID then uses or calling for a CCW endorsement/permit only.

    http://moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/stathtml/57100001211.html

    If you're driving ya gotta give the cop your ID anyway. If you are OCing it is none of his business whether or not you are armed.

    Your choice to make and the exact tone and tenor of the cop's questions should guide your interaction with him. Always have a recording device running to be sure that the facts are available if they are needed later.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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