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Thread: WA state sheriff deputy "We have a lot of Constitutionalists" to justify MRAP use.

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    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
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    WA state sheriff deputy "We have a lot of Constitutionalists" to justify MRAP use.

    How much longer are we going to sit in our comfy, warm pot of warm water? Don't wait until it boils or it will be too late.

    This sheriff deputy should be fired for violating his oath to Defend The Constitution and law abiding, Constitution loving Americans.

    I will be at the rally this Saturday to support the 2nd Amendment.

    http://patriotaction.net/profiles/bl...saying-mrap-ve

    From web site above:
    "Thalen said a local resident asked two deputies why vehicles designed for combat in places like Iraq and Afghanistan would be needed. The deputy responded by saying there are "a lot of constitutionalists and a lot of people that stockpile weapons, lots of ammunition."

    “They have weapons here locally," the deputy added. Thalen said the shocking admission indicates that law-abiding gun owners who support the Constitution are under surveillance by local authorities and it solidifies concerns by many that conservatives are being targeted by law enforcement agencies."

    Wake up America and stand up for your rights!
    Last edited by SovereigntyOrDeath; 12-17-2014 at 07:42 AM.

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    And you just make more constitutionalists by getting your MRAD that is easily taken out of commission.

    Good job !

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    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    And you just make more constitutionalists by getting your MRAD that is easily taken out of commission.

    Good job !
    Thanks for pointing out they are vulnerable, and more so than I imagined:

    http://westernrifleshooters.wordpres...bility-points/

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    Everyone should know how to knock one out of commission.

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereigntyOrDeath View Post
    How much longer are we going to sit in our comfy, warm pot of warm water? Don't wait until it boils or it will be too late.

    This sheriff deputy should be fired for violating his oath to Defend The Constitution and law abiding, Constitution loving Americans.

    I will be at the rally this Saturday to support the 2nd Amendment.

    http://patriotaction.net/profiles/bl...saying-mrap-ve

    From web site above:
    "Thalen said a local resident asked two deputies why vehicles designed for combat in places like Iraq and Afghanistan would be needed. The deputy responded by saying there are "a lot of constitutionalists and a lot of people that stockpile weapons, lots of ammunition."

    “They have weapons here locally," the deputy added. Thalen said the shocking admission indicates that law-abiding gun owners who support the Constitution are under surveillance by local authorities and it solidifies concerns by many that conservatives are being targeted by law enforcement agencies."

    Wake up America and stand up for your rights!

    Disgusting, but not too surprising. Government = a revolving door of ruling elite, and those elite want to be the only ones with power and guns.

    If I were to take a napkin and write on it, "Thou shalt not violate human rights", would it solve anything? You can take your Constitution or my napkin and throw it in their face all you want and it won't solve anything. Constitutionalism is proving to be a very weak protection for the people of America. You're going to have to go deeper than this piece of paper. America did not invent rights. Natural rights have existed forever. It's time that we not be afraid to vocalize that our rights were not granted by our government. In fact, by very definition, government violates rights. If a monarchy violates rights, then a minarchy just violates less rights. Therefore, a minarchy is destined for failure. Voluntarism, on the other hand...
    Last edited by independence; 12-18-2014 at 01:38 AM.
    Open means open...

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    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    Disgusting, but not too surprising. Government = a revolving door of ruling elite, and those elite want to be the only ones with power and guns.

    If I were to take a napkin and write on it, "Thou shalt not violate human rights", would it solve anything? You can take your Constitution or my napkin and throw it in their face all you want and it won't solve anything. Constitutionalism is proving to be a very weak protection for the people of America. You're going to have to go deeper than this piece of paper. America did not invent rights. Natural rights have existed forever. It's time that we not be afraid to vocalize that our rights were not granted by our government. In fact, by very definition, government violates rights. If a monarchy violates rights, then a minarchy just violates less rights. Therefore, a minarchy is destined for failure. Voluntarism, on the other hand...
    The Constitution of the United states of America is the ultimate law of this great land. Without it's constraints on government, one could only imagine the nightmare we would be living now.

    That said, our inalienable rights do not derive from the document. The document was intended to shackle the men in power. They all must swear an oath to it, and to uphold it's principles. Not that they do, however, it is our responsibility to ultimately be vigilant and hold them accountable. We the people hired them and we can fire them.

    Most sheeple just like to make excuses. Everything from "you can't fight city hall" to they have the military and police on "their" side. Most sheeple do not stand up for their rights. I personally chose to go to jail instead of turning over "my papers" to a cop who had no reason to ask other than the time of night I was walking home. (my opinion) I was even wrongfully accused of resisting arrest. Thanks "Patriot Act". Your papers please! For walking down the sidewalk! Charges eventually dropped. Arrest expunged.

    I have also fought and beat traffic tickets because "vehicle codes" are nothing but revenue generating mechanisms for the state and local governments. I have won!

    I open carry to protect myself and my family. To preserve my 2nd Amendment rights. Our rights need to be excersized or they can be taken away.

    Actions by ordinary people not putting up with the tyranny is what will right the path of this country, not napkins or parchments. Action.

    We live in veiled police state. "On December 31, 2011, Obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) codifying indefinite military detention without charge or trial into law. It makes the entire USA to be a ”battleground” upon which U.S. military forces can operate with impunity, overriding Posse Comitatus and granting the military the unchecked power to arrest, detain, interrogate and even assassinate U.S. citizens with impunity." Mike Adams

    So, Open Carry everywhere you can and as often as you will. Stand up and say "NO! I will not comply with your unconstitutional order"

    The people are the Sovereign.

    Sovereignty or Death! One must ask themselves, am I willing to give my life for what I believe?

    "Give me Liberty or give me death!" Patrick Henry

    "My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country!" John F. Kennedy

    "What ar you willing to do boy?" Sean Connery as Jim Malone asking Elliot Ness in The Untouchables

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereigntyOrDeath View Post
    The Constitution of the United states of America is the ultimate law of this great land. Without it's constraints on government, one could only imagine the nightmare we would be living now. ...
    Bold restatements.

    Are you willing to give your family unto Caesar? It is easy to say that you will gladly give yourself unto Caesar, it is another to condemn your family to that fate.

    A mix of "use the system against the system" and "eff-em", to be sure.

    Not disagreeing with your premise...though, the dead achieve no redress.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereigntyOrDeath View Post
    The Constitution of the United states of America is the ultimate law of this great land. Without it's constraints on government, one could only imagine the nightmare we would be living now.

    That said, our inalienable rights do not derive from the document. The document was intended to shackle the men in power. They all must swear an oath to it, and to uphold it's principles. Not that they do, however, it is our responsibility to ultimately be vigilant and hold them accountable. We the people hired them and we can fire them.

    Most sheeple just like to make excuses. Everything from "you can't fight city hall" to they have the military and police on "their" side. Most sheeple do not stand up for their rights. I personally chose to go to jail instead of turning over "my papers" to a cop who had no reason to ask other than the time of night I was walking home. (my opinion) I was even wrongfully accused of resisting arrest. Thanks "Patriot Act". Your papers please! For walking down the sidewalk! Charges eventually dropped. Arrest expunged.

    I have also fought and beat traffic tickets because "vehicle codes" are nothing but revenue generating mechanisms for the state and local governments. I have won!

    I open carry to protect myself and my family. To preserve my 2nd Amendment rights. Our rights need to be excersized or they can be taken away.

    Actions by ordinary people not putting up with the tyranny is what will right the path of this country, not napkins or parchments. Action.

    We live in veiled police state. "On December 31, 2011, Obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) codifying indefinite military detention without charge or trial into law. It makes the entire USA to be a ”battleground” upon which U.S. military forces can operate with impunity, overriding Posse Comitatus and granting the military the unchecked power to arrest, detain, interrogate and even assassinate U.S. citizens with impunity." Mike Adams

    So, Open Carry everywhere you can and as often as you will. Stand up and say "NO! I will not comply with your unconstitutional order"

    The people are the Sovereign.

    Sovereignty or Death! One must ask themselves, am I willing to give my life for what I believe?

    "Give me Liberty or give me death!" Patrick Henry

    "My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country!" John F. Kennedy

    "What ar you willing to do boy?" Sean Connery as Jim Malone asking Elliot Ness in The Untouchables

    That's a heavy religion right there. The Holy Oracle swears on some sacred scrolls?

    I like it.

    Gnarly!

    But you shouldn't be under any illusion that you control these priests of your minarchy. They actually control you, I hate to tell you. Sure, you can choose *who* controls you every few years, but you can't choose *whether* they will control you.

    Nice quote on collectivism from Kennedy, thanks for that. Also, nice of you to provide a quote associated with the warrior against the evils of all alcohol. If only he was here today to shoot us all for for drinking that evil substance! Oh that he could oppress us! We would be the better for it, would we not?
    Open means open...

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    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    That's a heavy religion right there. The Holy Oracle swears on some sacred scrolls?

    I like it.

    Gnarly!

    But you shouldn't be under any illusion that you control these priests of your minarchy. They actually control you, I hate to tell you. Sure, you can choose *who* controls you every few years, but you can't choose *whether* they will control you.

    Nice quote on collectivism from Kennedy, thanks for that. Also, nice of you to provide a quote associated with the warrior against the evils of all alcohol. If only he was here today to shoot us all for for drinking that evil substance! Oh that he could oppress us! We would be the better for it, would we not?
    It's not the talk that makes the man, it's the action he takes.

    That said, what have you done lately to change things back to a Constitutional Republic?

    That has to be the most pathetic thing about forums. All type, no action.....

    "What are you prepared to do boy?"........
    Last edited by SovereigntyOrDeath; 12-18-2014 at 05:16 PM. Reason: emphasis added

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    Disgusting, but not too surprising. Government = a revolving door of ruling elite, and those elite want to be the only ones with power and guns.

    If I were to take a napkin and write on it, "Thou shalt not violate human rights", would it solve anything? You can take your Constitution or my napkin and throw it in their face all you want and it won't solve anything. Constitutionalism is proving to be a very weak protection for the people of America. You're going to have to go deeper than this piece of paper. America did not invent rights. Natural rights have existed forever. It's time that we not be afraid to vocalize that our rights were not granted by our government. In fact, by very definition, government violates rights. If a monarchy violates rights, then a minarchy just violates less rights. Therefore, a minarchy is destined for failure. Voluntarism, on the other hand...
    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    That's a heavy religion right there. The Holy Oracle swears on some sacred scrolls?

    I like it.

    Gnarly!

    But you shouldn't be under any illusion that you control these priests of your minarchy. They actually control you, I hate to tell you. Sure, you can choose *who* controls you every few years, but you can't choose *whether* they will control you.

    Nice quote on collectivism from Kennedy, thanks for that. Also, nice of you to provide a quote associated with the warrior against the evils of all alcohol. If only he was here today to shoot us all for for drinking that evil substance! Oh that he could oppress us! We would be the better for it, would we not?
    Quote Originally Posted by SovereigntyOrDeath View Post
    It's not the talk that makes the man, it's the action he takes.

    That said, what have you done lately to change things back to a Constitutional Republic?

    That has to be the most pathetic thing about forums. All type, no action.....

    "What are you prepared to do boy?"........

    Your response reads as though you haven't read and comprehended the things I said. I'm not interested in a Constitutional Republic. I'm interested in Voluntarism.
    Last edited by independence; 12-19-2014 at 12:56 AM.
    Open means open...

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    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    Your response reads as though you have't read and comprehended the things I said. I'm not interested in a Constitutional Republic. I'm interested in Voluntarism.
    OK. Voluntarism. In what respect?

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereigntyOrDeath View Post
    OK. Voluntarism. In what respect?
    All interactions between humans should be voluntary. Voting to violate others' rights is unethical. Coercion by proxy of the government is wrong. Initiation of force is wrong. The only valid law is natural law, the law that prohibits the intiation of force and allows for using force only in self defense. Such law does not allow for extortion (taxation). For that reason, all government is slavery. And slavery is wrong.

    You can read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntaryism

    Or, if you're more the video type: http://youtu.be/wg0SrGzpX-0

    Anyway, I appreciate you sharing the video in your original post, because it shows how hypocritcal the United States has become.
    Open means open...

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    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    All interactions between humans should be voluntary. Voting to violate others' rights is unethical. Coercion by proxy of the government is wrong. Initiation of force is wrong. The only valid law is natural law, the law that prohibits the intiation of force and allows for using force only in self defense. Such law does not allow for extortion (taxation). For that reason, all government is slavery. And slavery is wrong.

    You can read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntaryism

    Or, if you're more the video type: http://youtu.be/wg0SrGzpX-0

    Anyway, I appreciate you sharing the video in your original post, because it shows how hypocritcal the United States has become.
    Ok, so my question still stands.

    What have you done lately to further the Voluntaryism cause?

    Do you open carry to defend yourself?

    What are you doing to eliminate the IRS and taxes?

    Action, Action, Action.

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereigntyOrDeath View Post
    Ok, so my question still stands.

    What have you done lately to further the Voluntaryism cause?

    Do you open carry to defend yourself?

    What are you doing to eliminate the IRS and taxes?

    Action, Action, Action.

    Good challenge, thank you. Let me see if I pass the test:

    -I open carry every single day
    -I have determined the main problem is the people, not the imaginary government. For that reason, I talk to people and try to convince them. Constantly. Every day.
    -I have lost close friends over open carry/self stewardship
    -I have lost contracts/revenue due to open carry which I practiced in a business environment
    -I do pro-life activism

    Have I passed the test of not just being a keyboard commando? Anyhow, thanks for listening, and thanks for sharing the link. I promise to read over what you wrote in this thread again thoughtfully. I ask that you also read over what I wrote again thoughtfully. Perhaps we can learn something from one another.
    Open means open...

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    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    Good challenge, thank you. Let me see if I pass the test:

    -I open carry every single day
    -I have determined the main problem is the people, not the imaginary government. For that reason, I talk to people and try to convince them. Constantly. Every day.
    -I have lost close friends over open carry/self stewardship
    -I have lost contracts/revenue due to open carry which I practiced in a business environment
    -I do pro-life activism

    Have I passed the test of not just being a keyboard commando? Anyhow, thanks for listening, and thanks for sharing the link. I promise to read over what you wrote in this thread again thoughtfully. I ask that you also read over what I wrote again thoughtfully. Perhaps we can learn something from one another.
    Not a test and my question was rhetorical. Nobody knows what is in a man's heart.

    I do believe in a lot of Libertarian principles, so I related to what I read for the most part in principle at least.

    I have a question about government. What would you put in place of a limited government like the Founding Fathers had envisioned? A Republic.
    "Nullification is the rightful remedy" Thomas Jefferson
    http://tracking.tenthamendmentcenter...-preservation/

    "Constitutional Carry is not an oxymoron"
    A Sovereign

    "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereigntyOrDeath View Post
    It's not the talk that makes the man, it's the action he takes.

    That said, what have you done lately to change things back to a Constitutional Republic?

    That has to be the most pathetic thing about forums. All type, no action.....

    "What are you prepared to do boy?"........
    To what do we owe his majesty and how much, for such wisdom couldn't possibly be free.

    JK Who are you?
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

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    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
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    Take some action. Join us for some fellowship this Saturday @ 2pm

    "Scott Maclay, president of the Rattlesnakes Motorcycle Club, responded to the video by organizing a protest which is set to take place this Saturday outside the Spokane Valley Police Department on East Sprague Avenue. Rep. Matt Shea is also expected to attend the event."

    “Protesters will barbecue food in the parking lot, openly carry firearms and erect a Christmas tree to leave letters of complaint directed at the Sheriff’s Office in its branches,”

    reports the Spokesman-Review.

    Here is the address: 2pm start time

    Spokane Valley Police Precinct
    12710 E. Sprague Avenue
    Spokane Valley, WA
    "Nullification is the rightful remedy" Thomas Jefferson
    http://tracking.tenthamendmentcenter...-preservation/

    "Constitutional Carry is not an oxymoron"
    A Sovereign

    "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereigntyOrDeath View Post
    I do believe in a lot of Libertarian principles, so I related to what I read for the most part in principle at least.

    I have a question about government. What would you put in place of a limited government like the Founding Fathers had envisioned? A Republic.
    None.

    No government.

    That's right.

    None.

    A totally voluntary society.

    Logistical issues would be solved by anarcho-capitalism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism
    Open means open...

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    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    None.

    No government.

    That's right.

    None.

    A totally voluntary society.

    Logistical issues would be solved by anarcho-capitalism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism
    Sounds like I would need a MRAP or M1 Abrahms more like it. It sounds too much like Anarchy. It sounds good in theory.

    Privately funded courts and law enforcement sounds like the super rich would rule since they are paying the bills.

    Until it is tried on a large scale, I guess we won't know.
    "Nullification is the rightful remedy" Thomas Jefferson
    http://tracking.tenthamendmentcenter...-preservation/

    "Constitutional Carry is not an oxymoron"
    A Sovereign

    "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." Thomas Jefferson

  20. #20
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Dang Pinkerton man...we did it for Dixie!
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereigntyOrDeath View Post
    Sounds like I would need a MRAP or M1 Abrahms more like it. It sounds too much like Anarchy. It sounds good in theory.

    Privately funded courts and law enforcement sounds like the super rich would rule since they are paying the bills.

    Until it is tried on a large scale, I guess we won't know.

    Arbitration would be paid for by those who require arbitration. Not just the rich. Capitalism.

    If you think it through, what _currently_ happens is that the rich pay for the courts. Then, the court system is imposed on people who didn't want it and didn't pay for it. They are imprisoned by this very system for doing something that hurt no one but themselves. For instance, a drug addict is hurting no one but themself and is dragged into the court system. Who paid for this court system? Certainly not the drug addict who has no job and is wasting their life away. Instead, those who earn their money by working hard are paying for it. You can call them the rich, if you like, though not all rich fit in that category. The rich are paying for a court system that imprisons people for doing things that hurt no one.

    It shouldn't suprise us when cops like the guy in the video think constitutionalists are a threat to safety. After all, he has likely been educated by the ruling elite in their brainwashing facilities (public schools) since childhood. Which is why we should banish all government controlled schooling. Under anarcho-capitalism, private schools and home education will thrive. Parents can send their kids to whichever school they like. Currently, those who choose private school pay for it twice: Once through taxes and once through tuition. And those who have no children at all must pay for other people's children's schooling!
    Last edited by independence; 12-19-2014 at 10:00 AM.
    Open means open...

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Well, where do I start.

    This clown of a LEO is in MY State.



    Quote Originally Posted by SovereigntyOrDeath View Post
    Thanks for pointing out they are vulnerable, and more so than I imagined
    Going up against a vehicle like this takes heavy firepower. If attempting to disable.......blind the vehicle first with small bottles of paint thrown from a safe distance. Once blinded, the "individuals" inside will exit and can be dealt with singly. I would recommend handing each one a copy of the Constitution as the exit the Mrap.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Everyone should know how to knock one out of commission.
    A morsel of Truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    And those who have no children at all must pay for other people's children's schooling!
    The alternative is to raise a generation of selfish, self absorbed fools. Oh.....wait.....we may be doing that already.



    Citizenship is a VERB and quite a few of the People on this forum are Activists. This is because they actually do something besides type.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  23. #23
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I gladly pay for a justice system that I hope to never use.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  24. #24
    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I gladly pay for a justice system that I hope to never use.
    I think that is great. You should have a right to do so. Sounds like something completely voluntary on your part and I have no problem with that.

    What I have a problem with, is making someone else partake. What if they don't gladly pay for this justice system, as you do? Then you send the government after them with a gun. Then you imprison them for not partaking in your master plan for society. Then you club them to the floor for not agreeing to pay the extortion money.

    This is wrong.
    Open means open...

  25. #25
    Regular Member SovereigntyOrDeath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    I think that is great. You should have a right to do so. Sounds like something completely voluntary on your part and I have no problem with that.

    What I have a problem with, is making someone else partake. What if they don't gladly pay for this justice system, as you do? Then you send the government after them with a gun. Then you imprison them for not partaking in your master plan for society. Then you club them to the floor for not agreeing to pay the extortion money.

    This is wrong.
    I get what you are saying about not paying for stuff I don't agree with.

    Getting back to the original post, I would think MRAP type of acquisition by police departments around the country would not be happening. The military would not be just giving equipment away. They would sell it or hold on to it because acquisitions on there part would be more strategic and prudent.

    On the flip side, National Defense would be hurt because too many people would not want to pay billions of dollars for the Industrial Military Complex.

    We need a limited government with limited income. No Printing Press!!!!! No Income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes. Excise taxes were the norm in the founding era.
    "Nullification is the rightful remedy" Thomas Jefferson
    http://tracking.tenthamendmentcenter...-preservation/

    "Constitutional Carry is not an oxymoron"
    A Sovereign

    "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." Thomas Jefferson

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