• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Spooked a LEO while OCing

hunter45

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Messages
969
Location
Myrtle Beach, SC
You are confusing what a gov't agency can/cannot do with what a citizen can/cannot do.

Govt's can only do what the law grants them the authority to do.

Citizens can do anything that the law does not outlaw.

You have much to learn grasshopper.


You're right. My point is - he's wrong. lol.
 

The Truth

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
1,972
Location
Henrico
Cop goes on alert when he sees an OCer, which is absolutely protected by Federal Case Law as NOT RAS that a crime is being committed (Black v. US), and proceeds to do recon on the OCer using his license plate, which has nothing to do with carrying a pistol except that for some stupid reason the database for CHPs is attached via the DMV database.

And you think the wife was not warranted in saying there might be trouble? HAH!
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
WOW! I have not heard THAT line for a long time. You are showing your age, Grape!
Like red badge of courage, I wear my heart on my sleeve.

Either that or I watch a lot of oldies but goodies.:)


Remember the flea races when the station was off of the air?
 
Last edited:

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
It's not wrong. Your plate gets run all the time. Probably every time a police officer is sitting behind you at a red light.

It's not wrong because it's done all the time? What kind of justification is that?
It's not punishable or criminal, but it is wrong.
 

JoeSparky

Centurion
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,621
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
There are eight million stories in the naked city; this has been one of them.

Agree that he was likely checking for a CHP, BUT since carry a gun does not require a CHP AND that simply having a gun is not RAS of a crime, this is a waste of LEA resources.

Now Grape, when you first heard that line it was "four million stories"--- I heard it 10 years later for the first time at "eight million"!

And on to the OP topic now----

Unless he saw you exit the driver's position on the vehicle he is making a "leap of faith" that it was the vehicle you actually arrived in.... after all, You could have simply been a pedestrian walking past that occupied vehicle before you passed by him!
 
Last edited:

XD40sc

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2013
Messages
402
Location
NC
It sounds like the only person "spooked" was the wife sitting in the car outside the drug store.
 

hafnhaf

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
230
Location
Williamsburg, VA
it doesnt matter if he ran the plates or not. it doesnt matter if the cars owner (maybe not the driver) came back as a CHP "owner". the person in the car MIGHT have a gun. or a rubber chicken. there is no way to tell. unless the rubber chicken is in plain sight. and then it might not be a real rubber chicken. if the beak is painted orange it MIGHT be a toy. or not.

as long as its not an assault rubber chicken we are all safe...

go ahead, run the plates. if the car is stolen, the owner says thanks. if the owner comes back with a warrant, just make sure someone in the car is the owner before you start shooting. unless he throws a rubber chicken...
 

Jon34511

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
38
Location
Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA
The courts have ruled several times that police can run license plates without any RAS even if the vehicle is parked on private property.

Us V Ellison 6th circuit court of appeals is one such case.
 

Jeff. State

Banned
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Messages
650
Location
usa
If there was an over reaction, it was the wife's assumption that this meant trouble.


NOT an overreaction.

Any interaction with police in Amerika today by "law abiding" Citizens, can end VERY badly. Based simply on the LEO's state of mind.
 

rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
The courts have ruled several times that police can run license plates without any RAS even if the vehicle is parked on private property.

Us V Ellison 6th circuit court of appeals is one such case.

Then they've contracted themselves

The government may not detain an individual even momentarily without reasonable and articulable suspicion, with a few exceptions. In Delaware v. Prouse (1979), the Court ruled an officer has made an illegal seizure when he stops an automobile and detains the driver in order to check his driver's license and the registration of the automobile, unless the officer has articulable and reasonable suspicion that a motorist is unlicensed or that an automobile is not registered, or either the vehicle or an occupant is otherwise subject to seizure for violation of law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
 

JamesCanby

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,480
Location
Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
It's not wrong. Your plate gets run all the time. Probably every time a police officer is sitting behind you at a red light.

In Alexandria City (and, I suspect, in some other Virginia jurisdictions), several police cars are equipped with cameras that automatically capture license plate images which are then automatically checked against a database of stolen vehicles and if there's a hit, the officer is notified. I don't know if there are other databases against which the plate is checked, e.g., registered to a person with a warrant. There was some recent controversy in Alexandria City as to how long the plate images are stored. If they are stored for ANY length of time, IMO, then they are building a "who was where" database that could be used to track citizens, which seems counter to the original purpose.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
In Alexandria City (and, I suspect, in some other Virginia jurisdictions), several police cars are equipped with cameras that automatically capture license plate images which are then automatically checked against a database of stolen vehicles and if there's a hit, the officer is notified. I don't know if there are other databases against which the plate is checked, e.g., registered to a person with a warrant. There was some recent controversy in Alexandria City as to how long the plate images are stored. If they are stored for ANY length of time, IMO, then they are building a "who was where" database that could be used to track citizens, which seems counter to the original purpose.

The state police were scanning every car in the parking lots at the state fair this year.
 

Jon34511

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
38
Location
Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA

rightwinglibertarian

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Seattle WA
The prouse case basically prevents the police from stopping cars randomly and without suspicion. Running a license plate is not the same as conducting a traffic stop. If the police can see your license plate they can run it and use the information garnered from the query as a basis for RAS to detain.

in other words as the licence plate is in plain site, it's fair game?
 

Baked on Grease

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Messages
629
Location
Sterling, Va.
The prouse case basically prevents the police from stopping cars randomly and without suspicion. Running a license plate is not the same as conducting a traffic stop. If the police can see your license plate they can run it and use the information garnered from the query as a basis for RAS to detain.
Question though... the cop repositioned his car to flood the OP'S car with his headlights. .. did the cop block him in the spot so he couldn't freely leave if he wanted to?

I would consider that a seizure. He is not free to leave...
 
Top