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Thread: New Hampshire moves to allow guns in state house of representatives

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    New Hampshire moves to allow guns in state house of representatives

    http://www.wmur.com/politics/lawmake...house/30303444

    SNIP

    "Guns are allowed back in the State House in Concord after a rule change made by a joint committee of state representatives and senators Thursday afternoon."

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    Regular Member fjpro2a's Avatar
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    Open Carry

    Mike,
    Did I hear at the end that open carry was still not allowed, only concealed?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fjpro2a View Post
    Mike,
    Did I hear at the end that open carry was still not allowed, only concealed?
    Confirmed - I heard the same thing.

    Worse it was reported that OC was akin to brandishing.......what ?? I think not !!

    Virginia has a similar Joint Rules Committee "rule." We can carry with a CHP (CC or OC) anywhere except the Senate gallary (their rule).
    No CHP = no carry. IMO that needs to be fixed.

    To quote a Virginia member of the General Assembly, "It is the people's house." So too it is in New Hampshire.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post

    Worse it was reported that OC was akin to brandishing.......what ?? I think not !!
    I thought it treated open carry and brandishing as separate issues.

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    When looking to pass new laws or repeal old laws it can be useful to point out the experience in other States.

    So far as I know, Utah has never had a law nor rules banning the possession of guns in our State capital. Certainly for the last 20 years that I've been involved in the RKBA community here, no such laws nor rules. We have several members of our legislature who are well known to CC daily. It is not at all unusual to see OC or very casual CC in our State capital including in the Senate and House galleries that look down on the floors of the respective chambers. These balconies are open down to the floor, no glass separations.

    Utah does not have a State Police force per se. Rather, our Highway Patrol is responsible for security at the Capital and for protecting our governor, Lt. Gov. etc. Those assigned to the capital or to protective duty are well versed in the law and are utterly professional and courteous in their interactions with gun carriers. And as you'd expect, our gun carriers have been, without exception of which I'm aware, courteous and appropriate in their conduct.

    I am not aware of any incidents at our capital involving either CC (requires permit) or OC. I'm trying to recall if there was a criminal incident a few years back, but can't find anything at the moment.

    In brief, no restrictions to speak of at the Utah State capital and no issues with that in the last 20 years.

    I wish you the best of luck in winning expanded statutory and rule recognition for your RKBA.

    One thing we found very useful in Utah was for a pro-gun legislator to invite his colleagues (pro and anti-RKBA) to attend a Utah permit class that a couple of instructors would present to legislators and their spouses for free. Since our class focuses mostly on use of deadly force and other laws related to guns, it provides some very good instruction and reality for legislators, most of whom know very little of what gun laws actually say. I won't say we've turned any antis into allies, but we've sure seen a positive change in attitude toward RKBA in the legislature since this started.

    Charles
    Last edited by utbagpiper; 12-22-2014 at 12:18 AM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    --snipped--

    One thing we found very useful in Utah was for a pro-gun legislator to invite his colleagues (pro and anti-RKBA) to attend a Utah permit class that a couple of instructors would present to legislators and their spouses for free. Since our class focuses mostly on use of deadly force and other laws related to guns, it provides some very good instruction and reality for legislators, most of whom know very little of what gun laws actually say. I won't say we've turned any antis into allies, but we've sure seen a positive change in attitude toward RKBA in the legislature since this started.

    Charles
    That is a heck of a good and novel thought, but it ignores unlicensed OC which we enjoy in VA. Would fight tooth and nail to avoid losing that.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    That is a heck of a good and novel thought, but it ignores unlicensed OC which we enjoy in VA. Would fight tooth and nail to avoid losing that.
    Our permit classes generally do a fine job of covering State and federal laws regarding unlicensed OC. And obviously, those who volunteer to teach a class to legislators make sure to cover everything they can, whether required by the course or not. The goal is not for legislators to get a permit and start carrying guns. The goal is for them to get well educated as to what current law is, some basics of firearm technology/terminology, and perhaps even have a positive experience with a firearm.

    Maybe your experience is different. But we used to spend altogether too much time countering really bad bills based on even worse misunderstandings of the law. We do a lot less of that now. While there are some truly evil, dishonest politicians out there, at least here in Utah, we find very few legislators willing to introduce bills that attack our RKBA based on entirely false premises once they know the premises are false.

    Our legislators know there is no "gun show loophole"; they have been educated about the laws governing private sales and how FFLs doing business at gun shows are bound by the same paperwork and background check laws as at their stores. There are still those legislators who want to shut down gun shows. But they lack the benefit of ignorance about any "gun show loophole" and are more or less compelled to admit they would target all private transfers.

    On the other hand, we have a lot of legislators who are nominally pro-RKBA but who were ignorant. A little education helps reduce the number of mistakes they make as well. A free permit class, with some time on the range, is just a really good way to get most of them to accept that education. It has worked so well for us, that I highly recommend it to every other State.

    As I noted, one key to getting high participation is to have a legislator or two extend the invitations to his colleagues.

    Charles

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