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Thread: Gilbert Council changes policy, allows guns in public buildings

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    Regular Member The Trickster's Avatar
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    Gilbert Council changes policy, allows guns in public buildings

    Gilbert Council changes policy, allows guns in public buildings

    Jonathan Reid, The Republic | azcentral.com 10:39 a.m. MST December 22, 2014

    Gun owners with a state permit can now carry a concealed firearm inside all Gilbert public buildings, reversing a previous policy that made such deadly weapons illegal.

    But those without a concealed-carry weapon permit can be asked by a police officer to place their firearms in a gun locker, according to an ordinance approved last week by the Gilbert Council.

    The town council updated the code so it reflects a 2006 state law, which requires public establishments to offer gun lockers in places where individuals without permits are banned from carrying their weapons. Firearms had previously been banned in all public buildings, but the code did not specify for them to placed in a locker.

    Town staff had proposed an ordinance that would keep firearms illegal, but it was amended by Councilman Victor Petersen to make an exception for concealed-carry permit holders.

    "In my view the current proposal that staff has provided is a violation of Second Amendment rights," Petersen said during the Dec. 18 meeting. "It maintains the same bad honor system, gun free zone policy of the past."

    Petersen added another amendment making it so only police officers can ask those carrying a firearm to put it in a gun locker. The original proposal would have allowed town staff to ask as well.

    Vice Mayor Eddie Cook, who has been more apprehensive about allowing guns in public buildings, called it a "good compromise," saying that a permit holder "is probably the type of person that would be honest and law-abiding."

    "That individual who gets a permit has been given some training that's been sanctioned, they are fingerprinted and also have a criminal background check," Cook said.

    Before voting for the ordinance, Mayor John Lewis voiced concerns among town staff about allowing firearms in public buildings.

    "Some said they would be fearful and it would cause a tremendous amount of stress for them if someone walked in with a weapon," Lewis said.

    Council members first discussed updating the town's weapon policy in June 2013, but were unable to find a compromise.

    Petersen and Councilman Jared Taylor wanted to make guns legal in all public buildings, but could not garner enough support from the rest of council.

    In August 2013, the council voted to keep firearms illegal, but it was reversed when Cook had a change of heart the following month, and no further action was taken.

    Although he voted for the most recent ordinance last week, Cook wants town staff to look further into the policies of neighboring cities.

    Last week's measure was approved 6-1, with Councilman Ben Cooper voting in dissent. Cooper, whose term ends in January, did not seek reelection.

    http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...ings/20762981/

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trickster View Post
    The town council updated the code so it reflects a 2006 state law, which requires public establishments to offer gun lockers in places where individuals without permits are banned from carrying their weapons. Firearms had previously been banned in all public buildings, but the code did not specify for them to placed in a locker.

    SNIP...

    Vice Mayor Eddie Cook, who has been more apprehensive about allowing guns in public buildings, called it a "good compromise," saying that a permit holder "is probably the type of person that would be honest and law-abiding."

    "That individual who gets a permit has been given some training that's been sanctioned, they are fingerprinted and also have a criminal background check," Cook said.

    Before voting for the ordinance, Mayor John Lewis voiced concerns among town staff about allowing firearms in public buildings.

    "Some said they would be fearful and it would cause a tremendous amount of stress for them if someone walked in with a weapon," Lewis said.
    SNIP...
    While the policy still makes the ASSumption that criminals will decide not to ILLEGALLY enter with their (likely) ILLEGALLY-possessed weapon that is (even more likely) ILLEGALLY-concealed on their person, it is a tiny step in the right direction.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    It's a start. As it's a public building it was allowed anyway. You just have to get the local powers that be to recognize it. Next step is Open Carry
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trickster View Post
    ......The original proposal would have allowed town staff to ask as well.
    .....

    Before voting for the ordinance, Mayor John Lewis voiced concerns among town staff about allowing firearms in public buildings.

    "Some said they would be fearful and it would cause a tremendous amount of stress for them if someone walked in with a weapon," Lewis said.
    So how many fearful town staff have quit their cushy jobs w taxpayer paid healthcare, sick leave, and pensions?

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    I am confused here--- I thought that one could legally conceal in AZ subject to age limitations without getting a permit! But, Gilbert City Council only allows those with a permit to conceal carry----- you know, that permit the State doesn't require one to have?
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    I am confused here--- I thought that one could legally conceal in AZ subject to age limitations without getting a permit! But, Gilbert City Council only allows those with a permit to conceal carry in public buildings----- you know, that permit the State doesn't require one to have?
    FIFY.

    While AZ public buildings are supposed to either allow carry or have storage lockers for lawfully-carried sidearms, the law itself has no teeth, allowing cities like Tucson (where I currently am; "behind enemy lines, so to speak) to pass ordinances that prohibit OC in public parks, etc.

    As others have said, this is a step in the Right direction, pun intended, but is by no means an equitable solution.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 12-22-2014 at 08:16 PM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    FIFY.

    While AZ public buildings are supposed to either allow carry or have storage lockers for lawfully-carried sidearms, the law itself has no teeth, allowing cities like Tucson (where I currently am; "behind enemy lines, so to speak) to pass ordinances that prohibit OC in public parks, etc.

    As others have said, this is a step in the Right direction, pun intended, but is by no means an equitable solution.
    oohhh........ *groans* You think you're punny don't you? *throws you a better one*
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    the law itself has no teeth, allowing cities like Tucson (where I currently am; "behind enemy lines, so to speak) to pass ordinances that prohibit OC in public parks, etc.
    Years ago weaker state preemption laws allowed Tucson to ban guns in parks. State law (thanks to AzCDL) no longer allows Tucson any exemption for their parks. Tucson never repealed their local ordinance on carrying in parks, but it's unenforceable.

    And, yes, there is no punishment for local municipalities ignoring the law. There is a big reluctance at the Legislature to punish one of their own via legislation.

    Fred

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    you dont need a permit to carry a AR, right? So why not just bring in your case?

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    you dont need a permit to carry a AR, right? So why not just bring in your case?
    State law allows municipalities to ban guns in "public" (government owned) buildings but they must provide storage.

    Gilbert passed a city ordinance allowing anyone with a CCW permit to carry discreetly (i.e. "concealed") in their buildings. I suppose if you have a CCW permit and carried a cased up AR, you would meet the requirement. However, most likely the end result would be Gilbert passing a new ordinance either repealing the old one totally or banning long guns.

    Too many times I've seen where proving a point works against us. Football games are won by "moving the chain." Same with restoring our right to keep and bear arms. In Virginia, where I lived before moving to Arizona, they first allowed CCW permit holders to carry in all public buildings. A few years later, state law changed to allow ALL gun owners to carry in public buildings. They even set up an express lane around the metal detectors for those who declared they were carrying a gun.

    Please! Think before acting.

    Fred

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    Do they still have to provide lockers for OCers?

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterNSteinmetz View Post
    Do they still have to provide lockers for OCers?
    Peter - I assume you are asking about Gilbert? My impression from reading the article is that yes they still provide lockers for OCers and those without CCW permits.

    As an FYI....Aside from the looming "expanded background check" ballot measure coming to Arizona, improving the ability to carry in public buildings is a top legislative priority with AzCDL.

    What will help us is contacting legislators when we ask via our alerts.

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 01-01-2015 at 12:13 PM.

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    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    I'm confused.

    I've looked this up and Ordinance 2515 signed on 12/18/14 is shown on their website. The muni code hasn't yet been updated as it is done quarterly, leaving you to go read the ordinance until the next quarterly update.

    Sooooooo...... The ordinance I read on their site makes no mention of prohibiting anything, it simply REPEALS the ENTIRE section 42-114. This doesn't seem to fit with the discussion, nor the article.

    It seems there are NO local restrictions.

    Link to Ordinance (click on Ordinance 2515):
    https://www.municode.com/library/az/..._of_ordinances
    Last edited by We-the-People; 01-24-2015 at 09:05 PM. Reason: Add link to ordinance
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
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    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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