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    Regular Member KingCharlemagne's Avatar
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    Advice for a new comer

    Turning 19 in 3 weeks. I plan on getting my CCW as soon as possible. I have open carried since June, any advice for a new comer to concealed carry?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO, KingCharlemagne.

    Took the liberty of moving your post to a new thread - you will get a better response this way.

    You were off-topic for where you previously posted.

    BTW - double posting (even to different threads) the same information/question etc. is frowned upon, even considered spamming.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-23-2014 at 07:07 PM. Reason: Added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingCharlemagne View Post
    Turning 19 in 3 weeks. I plan on getting my CCW as soon as possible. I have open carried since June, any advice for a new comer to concealed carry?
    Welcome to OCDO, which stands for OPEN CARRY dot ORG. While you may find some discussion points regarding concealed carry on this board, it is not our forte'. You might get better advice from a concealed carry forum.

    As one bit of advice, however, I suggest you thoroughly investigate the firearms statutes regarding concealed carry in your home state, such as where you may carry concealed and where that is prohibited. Knowing the law is very important if you wish to remain free.
    Last edited by JamesCanby; 12-23-2014 at 07:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingCharlemagne View Post
    Turning 19 in 3 weeks. I plan on getting my CCW as soon as possible. I have open carried since June, any advice for a new comer to concealed carry?
    Some advice:

    1-Get a lawyer; a criminal defense lawyer, and ideally one that deals with gun cases. There is a world of difference between the guy who writes up wills or business contracts and they guy who handles criminal cases. There is another, important difference between lawyers who generally deal with men who are guilty vs those who defend innocent men against bad laws or bad charges. You don't have to put him on retainer, but have his card in your wallet and/or his contact in your smart phone.

    Odds are you will never need him. But in the rare and horrible event you actually have to use your gun to defend your life or limb, 2:00 in the morning with cops starting to ask you questions is not the best time to start going through the yellow pages looking for a lawyer.

    2-Learn the laws of your State and anywhere else you are going to carry. Know them. Even keep a copy of the most important ones printed out in your wallet or your car. Internet boards can be very useful for gathering data. But "I read on the Internet" is not a defense in court. Understand very carefully what the law says, vs what you or someone else thinks it should say. Knowing these things will dramatically reduce the odds that you ever have to contribute to the income of that lawyer you found in step #1. It also increases your confidence and ability to calmly, civility, and appropriately interact with (the rare) police officer or private citizen who take exception to your lawful exercise of your rights to an effective self defense.

    3-Get appropriate training.

    4-Get and maintain the proper mindset. An unarmed man might get away with exchanging words with some hothead, or even doing a little shoving. An armed man must conduct himself in the highest standards since any encounter has the potential to turn deadly. Having exercised the right to bear arms, I believe we accept the responsibility to walk away from insults, to de-escalate. An associate has suggested this simple rule: He will never use his gun unless not using his gun is worse than being killed or going to prison. By this rule he expects to avoid ever being killed or going to prison, and if he should end up dead or in prison he will have the solace of knowing the alternative was worse.

    5-Get involved in your local politics. Find a local (and if possible a national) pro-RKBA organization you can support. Work to get pro-RKBA candidates elected and to defeat gun grabbers. Be willing to work with those who disagree with you on any other issue so long as you can agree on RKBA.

    6-Find the right balance between patience and demand for change. You come of age at an amazing time for RKBA. As little as 20 years ago it was very difficult to legally carry a gun for self-defense in most of this nation, especially in many urban areas. Twenty years ago after finishing college I returned to my home State very shortly after our laws changed from discriminatory to shall issue for permits to carry. Some great men spent a lot of time away from family, work, and hobbies to get that change in law made. I've tried to do my part for the past 20 years to build upon the work they did. I've had a small part of advancing our laws to better respect RKBA than it did when I arrived home. I'll spend the next 20 years contributing to advance further. I encourage you to do your part, in your community and State and the nation, to advance legal respect for RKBA. Push for needed changes while recognizing our entire system of government is designed to make change slow and difficult. Don't get frustrated if it takes a couple of years to make what seem like small changes. Small changes build upon each other and when you hit 40 you'll look back, wonder where the time has gone, and be amazed at how much you've managed to accomplish.

    Welcome aboard and best of luck.

    Charles

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    Welcome KC. I will not harass you on your first thread.

    Any problems with OCing?

    Civility is what we are all about.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 12-23-2014 at 09:28 PM.

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    Regular Member KingCharlemagne's Avatar
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    Thank you very much sir!

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    Regular Member KingCharlemagne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Welcome to OCDO, which stands for OPEN CARRY dot ORG. While you may find some discussion points regarding concealed carry on this board, it is not our forte'. You might get better advice from a concealed carry forum.

    As one bit of advice, however, I suggest you thoroughly investigate the firearms statutes regarding concealed carry in your home state, such as where you may carry concealed and where that is prohibited. Knowing the law is very important if you wish to remain free.
    Thank you sir. I also have a lot of interesting OC stories too. I had someone request I post them, where is the appropriate thread for that

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingCharlemagne View Post
    Thank you sir. I also have a lot of interesting OC stories too. I had someone request I post them, where is the appropriate thread for that
    While some state sub-forums do have long standing threads on OC experiences, Missouri does not seem to have one......yet.

    Suggest that you might start one with a title similar to "OC Experiences in Missouri."

    You could of course make the title more limiting geographically if you chose.

    VA has 4 area threads going - NoVa, Greater Richmond, Tidewater, and Hampton Roads.

    Day in and day out the experiences (where you went and what happened) are ho hum - just the way we like it. Every now and then though, there are some very funny things. Extremely, again extremely, few strongly negative happenings.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member KingCharlemagne's Avatar
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    Because I of my age, I tend to have more negative experiences than positive ones. While Missouri permits those 18 years of age or older to open carry a handgun or long gun, I may be the only 18 year old who actually does. Most of my experiences aren't pleasant but they are humorous.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingCharlemagne View Post
    Because I of my age, I tend to have more negative experiences than positive ones. While Missouri permits those 18 years of age or older to open carry a handgun or long gun, I may be the only 18 year old who actually does. Most of my experiences aren't pleasant but they are humorous.
    I can see that possibility, particularly in a state really just moving into that arena.

    Caution though - it is not a wise choice to "hold court" with authority on the street or on another's property. Best to leave as intact as possible and straighten it out from the comfort of your home or attorney's office.

    Regarding stops by LE, after complying to any demands only to the limit of the law, one of my favorite attorneys advises us to KYBMS (Keep Your Big Mouth Shut) - don't say anything - it can be twisted to harm you.

    Am I free to go?

    Am I being detained? If Yes, you are under arrest.....KYBMS until your attorney arrives or you are released to leave, then contact your attorney.

    You do carry a digital recorder do you not?
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-23-2014 at 11:31 PM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member KingCharlemagne's Avatar
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    Most of LE encounters end with the other party being informed of my actions being legal. My local sheriffs office are well aware of me and have my contact info so they can reach if they receive a complaint about "a kid with a gun" outside of my local area I do have a video camera on my phone and if ever necessary I will use it.

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    This ain't you is it ?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIa4NkQXm8Y


    Ahhhh, kidding. I kid. Joke. Ha ha funny.

    If people come up to you and complain just tell them if they are that worried about it that they should carry too.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I can see that possibility, particularly in a state really just moving into that arena.

    Caution though - it is not a wise choice to "hold court" with authority on the street or on another's property. Best to leave as intact as possible and straighten it out from the comfort of your home or attorney's office.

    Regarding stops by LE, after complying to any demands only to the limit of the law, one of my favorite attorneys advises us to KYBMS (Keep Your Big Mouth Shut) - don't say anything - it can be twisted to harm you.

    Am I free to go?

    Am I being detained? If Yes, you are under arrest.....KYBMS until your attorney arrives or you are released to leave, then contact your attorney.

    You do carry a digital recorder do you not?
    Welcome KC!

    My son, also 18, has been OCing around......mainly with me.....he is still getting comfortable.

    GS makes some good points above.....take note.

    As for CCW....study Chapter 571.

    Enjoy...Be Safe.....Be Smart!
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingCharlemagne View Post
    Because I of my age, I tend to have more negative experiences than positive ones. While Missouri permits those 18 years of age or older to open carry a handgun or long gun, I may be the only 18 year old who actually does. Most of my experiences aren't pleasant but they are humorous.
    Must be your state. Nobody would bat an eye at an 18 year-old OCing here.

    Although I didn't start until 21 myself.

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    Regular Member KingCharlemagne's Avatar
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    Missouri just moved the CCW age to 19. Also, you can buy a handgun from a licensed dealer at 18, at the beginning of the year it was 21 but you could still possess a handgun and open carry at 18. Most people assumed you had to be 21 for OC which wasn't true. Aside from the occasional fellow civilian I run into whom is also OCing, it would seem that only LE is aware of the state OC laws.

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    Regular Member JEStucker's Avatar
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    Just in case of a worst case scenario, here's some important contact information for you. Granted, he's a major advocate for concealed carry, but as far as Missouri state laws regarding the second amendment and citizens, his knowledge is on par with the best of them.

    Kevin L. Jamison
    Attorney At Law
    2614 NE 56th Terrace
    Gladstone, Missouri 64119-2311

    816-455-2669
    KLJamisonLaw@earthlink.net
    http://www.kljamisonlaw.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I can see that possibility, particularly in a state really just moving into that arena.

    Caution though - it is not a wise choice to "hold court" with authority on the street or on another's property. Best to leave as intact as possible and straighten it out from the comfort of your home or attorney's office.

    Regarding stops by LE, after complying to any demands only to the limit of the law, one of my favorite attorneys advises us to KYBMS (Keep Your Big Mouth Shut) - don't say anything - it can be twisted to harm you.

    Am I free to go?

    Am I being detained? If Yes, you are under arrest.....KYBMS until your attorney arrives or you are released to leave, then contact your attorney.

    You do carry a digital recorder do you not?
    ???Why ask "Am I free to go?" Why not just go? If they don't want you to, they'll speak up I imagine.

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    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingCharlemagne View Post
    Aside from the occasional fellow civilian I run into whom is also OCing, it would seem that only LE is aware of the state OC laws.
    Just because, someone is a LEO, doesn't necessarily mean they know, or enforce, or support, the current firearm laws. I have run into MANY LEO's that don't know the current firearm laws, or could care less, and choose THEIR own laws when encountering a citizen with a firearm. THAT IS A FACT. Keep your video and or audio recorders handy.
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    Regular Member KingCharlemagne's Avatar
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    Thank you, I'll keep that in mind

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingCharlemagne View Post
    Missouri just moved the CCW age to 19. Also, you can buy a handgun from a licensed dealer at 18, at the beginning of the year it was 21 but you could still possess a handgun and open carry at 18. Most people assumed you had to be 21 for OC which wasn't true. Aside from the occasional fellow civilian I run into whom is also OCing, it would seem that only LE is aware of the state OC laws.
    [BOLDED] I believe you are mistaken. You still have to be 21 to purchase a handgun from a licensed dealer, even in MO. If I'm incorrect, please guide me in the direction where it was changed.

    Thx!
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    [BOLDED] I believe you are mistaken. You still have to be 21 to purchase a handgun from a licensed dealer, even in MO. If I'm incorrect, please guide me in the direction where it was changed.

    Thx!
    Good catch Mr. Redbaron007!

    Indeed is it a violaion for an FFL to sell a handgun to someone under 21 years of age.
    Q: Does a customer have to be a certain age to buy firearms or ammunition from a licensee?

    Yes. Under the GCA, long guns and long gun ammunition may be sold only to persons 18 years of age or older. Sales of handguns and ammunition for handguns are limited to persons 21 years of age and older. Although some State and local ordinances have lower age requirements, dealers are bound by the minimum age requirements established by the GCA. If State law or local ordinances establish a higher minimum age, the dealer must observe the higher age requirement.
    [18 U.S.C. 922(b)(1), 27 CFR 478.99(b)]

    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/lic...e-requirements
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I can see that possibility, particularly in a state really just moving into that arena.

    Caution though - it is not a wise choice to "hold court" with authority on the street or on another's property. Best to leave as intact as possible and straighten it out from the comfort of your home or attorney's office.

    Regarding stops by LE, after complying to any demands only to the limit of the law, one of my favorite attorneys advises us to KYBMS (Keep Your Big Mouth Shut) - don't say anything - it can be twisted to harm you.

    Am I free to go?

    Am I being detained? If Yes, you are under arrest.....KYBMS until your attorney arrives or you are released to leave, then contact your attorney.

    You do carry a digital recorder do you not?
    I'd rather like to do a Kokesh on an LEO, but thats just me. Wouldnt suggest an inexperienced person reminding an LEO he's a public servant and we the people are his boss.

    Quote Originally Posted by KingCharlemagne View Post
    Most of LE encounters end with the other party being informed of my actions being legal. My local sheriffs office are well aware of me and have my contact info so they can reach if they receive a complaint about "a kid with a gun" outside of my local area I do have a video camera on my phone and if ever necessary I will use it.
    *shakes head* Bad idea. LEOs are allowed to and do lie. You can OC or CC to your hearts content. Personally I think if you're not OCing, don't bother but thats a whole other debate and quite OT

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    ???Why ask "Am I free to go?" Why not just go? If they don't want you to, they'll speak up I imagine.
    Even this rightwing 'extremist' libertarian knows thats crazy. I may have the legal right but it's not clever as Cops have been known to shoot or taze you in the back. NEVER turn your back on a potential threat
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

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    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth
    ???Why ask "Am I free to go?" Why not just go? If they don't want you to, they'll speak up I imagine.
    Plus, especially when recording, it's important that you ask that question so that you may get an answer from the LEO as to whether or not you are officially being detained. If he gives no answer, maybe walk away. If he says yes, KYBMS and call a lawyer.
    Last edited by The Truth; 12-26-2014 at 01:54 PM.
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    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Some advice:

    1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6...
    Excellent advice.

    And, to add to it: learn about Amendment 5.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Some might wonder where the OP went - all his posts in a 2 day window - then crickets.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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