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A clean shoot?

Strike

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
53
Location
Washington
This video has been circulating recently and got me thinking about at which point I may have had to protect myself from imminent danger. Especially with my wife or child in the car.

[video=youtube_share;IMd1Cams8kE]http://youtu.be/IMd1Cams8kE[/video]

What would you have done?
 

Alpine

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
671
Location
Idaho
Pretty scary, the truck obviously intentionally hit the person after chasing them at different speeds and across different lanes, then the person got out of the truck and came at them. Not sure what other factors are involved by it certainly looks like their lives could have been in danger.
 

OlGutshotWilly

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
443
Location
Snohomish, WA, ,
This is a perfect example of why we are armed at all times.

Being armed, my response may have been different, but one has to be able to justify that their life is in immediate danger to fire your weapon. (yes, being rammed by a large pickup would probably count )

It looked to me like both her hands were clear when she exited her vehicle, but my gun would have been on her, and I would have likely been out of my car pretty damn fast to take the action away from my family. Utilizing cover is a basic tenant of armed confrontations, but taking the action away from my family would be paramount.

But I am very experienced with dealing with some pretty crazy people.
 

J_dazzle23

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
643
Pit maneuver, drive off, call the cops and video the whole thing like they did. Had she gotten me stopped like that after hitting me with her car purposefully, I would have driven off as soon as possible. Had she made it out of the car like she did, I'd have been out of the car at the low ready no question.

Stuff like this makes me wonder if the perp had some sort of psychotic or other mental disorder. Scary to think there are people out there like that.
 

utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
First of all, one should avoid "rude hand gestures to others." No, getting flipped off doesn't justify physical assault with a truck. But de-escalation and avoiding a confrontation is way better than needlessly risking injury over pride. The cost to repair the car, and hassle of doing it even if insurance covers the dollar cost is way more than a the "cost" of refraining from giving the one finger salute (I assume this is what is meant by "rude hand gesture"). The proper response to being talegated is to move right and let the vehicle pass and be on its way.

I hope the victims rethink their willingness in the future to flip the bird to other drivers. You can't predict who is nuts and there is no benefit to be gained by throwing around insulting gestures. An armed society is polite yada yada....

Assuming that de-escalation doesn't work, there isn't a lot of time in this encounter when I think shooting would be the prudent thing to do. Certainly once the driver exits her truck, is a woman (rather than a 300 pound man) and is not visibly armed, I'd hate to have to defend my use of a gun at that point. In hand, ready? Yes. But I think driving away the better course. I might have considered backing down the emergency lane. I can back faster than most can run and the more distance between her and her truck when I go forward again, the less chance she can catch up to me again.

At the point the truck driver forces them off the road and especially when she hits their car, deadly force would seem to be legally justified, but I wonder how effective at ending the attack in this case. Pretty tough to actually neutralize the threat and as noted, the truck driver is nuts. So no guarantee she'd respond rationally to the presence of a gun. A couple of shots into the radiator as they drove away after being forced off the road would be eminently satisfying, might actually end or at least limit the attack, and in theory should be fully justified. But this was Cali so who knows.

So long as the car is mobile, it provides the greatest protection from the truck and ability to escape the situation. I'd not leave the car unless it was disabled or otherwise unable to move. In that case, the ability to move freely has advantages over being strapped into a seat.

Charles
 
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WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
What bugs me is she claimed to be a cop, this has happened in our state before, women stopped by fake cops. I would never stop for anything that was not a marked patrol car. At most drive slowly to the police station if it is a unmarked, possibly police car. But even then 10 years ago a state police officer was stopping and raping women, he eventually got caught, at that time NC troopers did not have dash cams.
 

The Truth

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
1,972
Location
Henrico
Those is the behaviors of a psychopath.

There's no messing around when it comes to my family.

Think of it this way. Say you try to outrun the assailant instead of stopping the threat and the assailant gets one last police spin maneuver in on you. Your car flips down an embankment and you're either dead or permanently injured. It's not worth it to try and outrun the assailant if you have a firearm handy. When the violent felony is committed it's you or them in a state that has no duty to retreat.
 
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utbagpiper

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
4,061
Location
Utah
Think of it this way. Say you try to outrun the assailant instead of stopping the threat and the assailant gets one last police spin maneuver in on you. Your car flips down an embankment and you're either dead or permanently injured. It's not worth it to try and outrun the assailant if you have a firearm handy. When the violent felony is committed it's you or them in a state that has no duty to retreat.

This is a very good point and something I considered. I'd certainly avoid anything high speed.

But I intend to avoid deadly force whenever and for as long as possible. Heaven help you if the nutcase turns out to be a member of a politically favored category and you are not. George Zimmerman was acquitted. Still very costly. The grand jury declined to indict officer Wilson. Still very costly.

Shooting an "unarmed" (I hate that term as it implies "not dangerous") crazy woman as she advances on me (as a male) has a lot of potential for really unpleasant legal costs. Trying to resist her with my bare hands has significant risks that I don't care to incur. I'm not batman or a cop and I don't carry a belt full of less-than-lethal options around everywhere.

Disabling the truck and driving away may be a better option than shooting the nutcase.

Charles
 

F350

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
941
Location
The High Plains of Wyoming
Running at high speed can get you or someone else killed in any number of ways. Call the cops and exit as soon as possible and stop somewhere you can't get trapped, if the aggressor follows and gets out of their vehicle, as long as no weapon is visible let them get close then drive off, repeat as many times as necessary. Yes my sidearm would be ready for any sign of the aggressor being armed and the window would be down.

I drive a Ford F350, dully 4X4, so someone forcing me off the road is unlikely, if I pull off the road and am approached on foot, that someone would be a minor speed bump.
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
Pit maneuver, drive off, call the cops and video the whole thing like they did. Had she gotten me stopped like that after hitting me with her car purposefully, I would have driven off as soon as possible. Had she made it out of the car like she did, I'd have been out of the car at the low ready no question.

Stuff like this makes me wonder if the perp had some sort of psychotic or other mental disorder. Scary to think there are people out there like that.

IMHO I disagree. In this situation I would pull over and stop the vehicle. The victim broke several traffic laws in panic.
Pull over. make the call. prepare to defend. Do not do anything to escalate.

I hope the victims rethink their willingness in the future to flip the bird to other drivers.

lol you just can't keep from laying some blame on the true victim.
 

J_dazzle23

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
643
IMHO I disagree. In this situation I would pull over and stop the vehicle. The victim broke several traffic laws in panic.
Pull over. make the call. prepare to defend. Do not do anything to escalate.



lol you just can't keep from laying some blame on the true victim.
I guess I should expound.

I'm proficient enough with a vehicle to properly execute a pit maneuver, and likely do it with no risk of harm to any party. I'd rather that than have to defend myself on the side of the road with any gun. Once I feel my safety or my families safety is at stake, I'm ok with breaking a few traffic laws to end the situation as safely as possible.

That being said, it's easy for me to armchair qb this thing. I definitely can see the wisdom in doing it the way you say.
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
I guess I should expound.

I'm proficient enough with a vehicle to properly execute a pit maneuver, and likely do it with no risk of harm to any party. I'd rather that than have to defend myself on the side of the road with any gun. Once I feel my safety or my families safety is at stake, I'm ok with breaking a few traffic laws to end the situation as safely as possible.

That being said, it's easy for me to armchair qb this thing. I definitely can see the wisdom in doing it the way you say.

and you also just left the scene of an accident. IMHO the best thing to do is pull over a safe distance from traffic, make the dreaded call, stay in vehicle, defend life..
I honestly do appreciate your wanting to drive away from the danger but you just broke the law leaving the scene. As 100% obvious your decision seems....prepare to defend your illegal actions.
 

J_dazzle23

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
643
and you also just left the scene of an accident. IMHO the best thing to do is pull over a safe distance from traffic, make the dreaded call, stay in vehicle, defend life..
I honestly do appreciate your wanting to drive away from the danger but you just broke the law leaving the scene. As 100% obvious your decision seems....prepare to defend your illegal actions.
Totally agree. In calling the cops, it is many times not an illegal action to call and tell them you left as to care for your sefety. But in the end, I'd rather defend myself against the possible charge than have to defend myself with a gun. I'll do it, every time. But if I don't have to draw I'll look for any other alternative.

I suppose it's probably 6's, tbh. Either way would have been better than being unarmed and unprepared.
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
Totally agree. In calling the cops, it is many times not an illegal action to call and tell them you left as to care for your sefety. But in the end, I'd rather defend myself against the possible charge than have to defend myself with a gun. I'll do it, every time. But if I don't have to draw I'll look for any other alternative.

I suppose it's probably 6's, tbh. Either way would have been better than being unarmed and unprepared.

+1 It's a crappy situation. I only speak for myself. In an adrenaline fueled situation like this I prefer to stop and wait. I know my limits. I would hate to do something rash and pull into another car or something. But I definitely don't blame anyone for running. For me I would stop and call. If the offender decides to attack be ready to defend.
 

Grim_Night

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
776
Location
Pierce County, Washington
Watched the vid. The passenger was on the phone with 911 dispatcher at the time the vehicle was hit, even informed the dispatcher of the hit. The dispatcher told them to drive away and go to the waiting officer.
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Watched the vid. The passenger was on the phone with 911 dispatcher at the time the vehicle was hit, even informed the dispatcher of the hit. The dispatcher told them to drive away and go to the waiting officer.

I have to say for an untrained individual the passenger did an outstanding job at keeping the driver from completely losing it while handling communications. I find it interesting that replies on youtube were very insulting.
 
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