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Thread: Stop Lying

  1. #1
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Stop Lying

    ...."The lie that Officer Wilson shot Brown while he had his hands up and was pleading “Don’t shoot.”

    The lie that New York City policemen targeted Eric Garner for a violent arrest because he was black.

    The lie, peddled especially by the progressive prince of New York City, Mayor de Blasio, that the police are racist.

    These are the lies that fuel hatred for the police, because if the police routinely execute black men in cold blood and serve a thoroughly racist system, they deserve to be hated.

    They should be the subject of nightly protests. They should be showered with obloquy."

    http://nypost.com/2014/12/24/lying-about-the-cops/


    Stop lying.
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  2. #2
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    This is sooooo ironic coming from you...Bwahhahahahaha!
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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  3. #3
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Yet from their own comes this:

    Black NYPD cops expose climate of rampant racial profiling in force

    http://rt.com/usa/217239-black-police-racial-profiling/

  4. #4
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    So when are the cops going to stop lying and start holding their own accountable for their actions? While I don't condone the murdering of officers, I feel zero sympathy for the force as a whole for its losses (my sympathy goes out to the families of the deceased). While it is unacceptable to murder, the actions of the police (and other armed agents of the gov regardless of if they are true police or not) has greatly contributed to the current situation of distrust and outright hatred of the cops.

  5. #5
    Regular Member The Truth's Avatar
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    I'm just gonna leave this comment here. Just cuz.
    Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis.

    μολὼν λαβέ

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator
    So in actuality you have no evidence that anything wrong took place, you only believe that it could be spun to appear wrong. But it hasn't been. The truth has a funny way of coming out with persistence, even if it was spun negatively the truth would find its way because these people will not accept less.
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The truth causes some people so much pain they can only respond with impotent laughable insults. Life must be rough for those people.

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Negative broad brushing of LE as a group will not be tolerated on OCDO.

    Adding to that familiar song is the reminder that OCDO has no intention of being another CopWatch.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
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    Trash speaks for and identifies itself via its behavior, so it doesn't have to be "profiled."

    On the other hand, it's also true that certain "profiles" can be expected to be trash, and therefore trouble.

    When/if OUR turn comes to experience an "incident" -- as these cops recently have -- we need to choose our personal "evaluation policy" and then subsequently, our accordingly appropriate response.

    I know I will.

    [I hope I was ambiguous enough to walk the tightrope safely, yet still make some sense]


    Happy New Year to all...
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 12-26-2014 at 05:03 PM.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

  8. #8
    Regular Member Logan 5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Negative broad brushing of LE as a group will not be tolerated on OCDO.

    Adding to that familiar song is the reminder that OCDO has no intention of being another CopWatch.
    While I think you're right in that statement Grapeshot, what I have a problem with is your comment about CopWatch.
    It seems you are not fully aware of CopWatch and their intent.

    If we should not paint all cops with a broad stroke of the brush, nor should we of groups such as CopWatch.
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  9. #9
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan 5 View Post
    While I think you're right in that statement Grapeshot, what I have a problem with is your comment about CopWatch.
    It seems you are not fully aware of CopWatch and their intent.

    If we should not paint all cops with a broad stroke of the brush, nor should we of groups such as CopWatch.
    We should not paint any law abiding group, race, or religion with a broad brush.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  10. #10
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan 5 View Post
    While I think you're right in that statement Grapeshot, what I have a problem with is your comment about CopWatch.
    It seems you are not fully aware of CopWatch and their intent.

    If we should not paint all cops with a broad stroke of the brush, nor should we of groups such as CopWatch.
    I am quite aware of CopWatch and am not painting it in any manner, but will stand by the statement that OCDO will not become a similar site in part or whole.

    Our primary function is to normalize (promote and defend) the open carry of holstered handguns as we go about our everyday lives.

    The Forum Rules explains a lot of the limitations, but not all fully. That is where Administration endorsed/authorized called decisions are employed.

    Understand that as private property, John & Mike get to make the rules in their house. That is not meant to offend or penalize anybody, but rather to keep us focused.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
    Regular Member FBrinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post

    Grapeshot doesn't need me to interpret his words and it is not my intent to do so, but I did not see his post as an attempt to paint anything with any kind of brush; he made no judgement whatsoever about CopWatch. He just said OCDO did not want to become like it. OCDO is dedicated to open carry. CopWatch is not and I doubt posts exclusively about OC and unrelated to cops would be welcomed there. CopWatch is different from OCDO; not better, not worse, but different. I don't want to become like my brother. He is a fine person, a great father and husband, but I am gutshot, an individual, and I don't want to become him. I want to remain me. No brushes or painting going on here.
    I agree with this. But with smaller letters.

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBrinson View Post
    I agree with this. But with smaller letters.
    Gutshot has a visual limitation and has special dispensation that allows him to see what he is typing/posting.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  13. #13
    Regular Member FBrinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Gutshot has a visual limitation and has special dispensation that allows him to see what he is typing/posting.
    Oh, I thought he was shouting. My apologies to Gutshot if my comment was offensive. There was certainly no ill intentions in my amateurish attempt at humor. Thanks for calling me out on this most deserved public embarrassment, Grapeshot.

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBrinson View Post
    Oh, I thought he was shouting. My apologies to Gutshot if my comment was offensive. There was certainly no ill intentions in my amateurish attempt at humor. Thanks for calling me out on this most deserved public embarrassment, Grapeshot.
    No intention to embarrass, only to inform.

    When people talk to me in person, they frequently do shout..........I'm just a tad deaf in one or two ears
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Logan 5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I am quite aware of CopWatch and am not painting it in any manner, but will stand by the statement that OCDO will not become a similar site in part or whole.

    Our primary function is to normalize (promote and defend) the open carry of holstered handguns as we go about our everyday lives.

    The Forum Rules explains a lot of the limitations, but not all fully. That is where Administration endorsed/authorized called decisions are employed.

    Understand that as private property, John & Mike get to make the rules in their house. That is not meant to offend or penalize anybody, but rather to keep us focused.
    I am not taking their side nor am I disregarding the rules. AFAIC you're right on both accounts and I do not dispute that.

    But when you said "Adding to that familiar song is the reminder that OCDO has no intention of being another CopWatch." to me, a member of CopWatch, it comes across as an abrasive statement. The group of CopWatchers I associate with also has a couple former cops as members/advisors. If I was wrong about my interpretation of your comment, then I'm sorry. I just don't feel that I did.
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    Registering gun owners to prevent crime, is like registering Jews to prevent a HOLOCAUST.

    I am not a lawyer in real life, or in play life. So anything I say is for debate and discussion only.

  16. #16
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Negative broad brushing of LE as a group will not be tolerated on OCDO.

    Adding to that familiar song is the reminder that OCDO has no intention of being another CopWatch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Logan 5 View Post
    I am not taking their side nor am I disregarding the rules. AFAIC you're right on both accounts and I do not dispute that.

    But when you said "Adding to that familiar song is the reminder that OCDO has no intention of being another CopWatch." to me, a member of CopWatch, it comes across as an abrasive statement. The group of CopWatchers I associate with also has a couple former cops as members/advisors. If I was wrong about my interpretation of your comment, then I'm sorry. I just don't feel that I did.
    Broad brushing is the familiar song. CopWatch concentrates on rooting out LEA/LEO improper actions - that is not what OCDO wishes to become. I read CW occasionally - have no quarrel with it.

    I see no rule violation on your part - the rule was quoted for the benefit of all readers. I have no need or desire to make abusive statements and have not. Have even given explanation of my plain words. Nothing else needs to be said on this IMO.

    Enjoy and have a Happy New Year.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-27-2014 at 08:51 AM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  17. #17
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I respect the rules, but police abuse directly affects the RKBA. As a former officer, I openly welcome constructive criticism and search for truth and justice. I cannot condone broad brushing or profiling a whole segment of society just for their color. I always thought we welcomed all races here, but I gotta admit I have seen a few slanted posts coyly referring to race not addressed. Federally profiling is illegal under the civil rights act. Violating civil rights is a clear illegal act. IMO censoring talk of single proven acts is supporting illegal activity.

    The admin here has been very lenient, but lately I get the feeling that it is changing with the intention to reduce overwatch. If we have to fear overwatch so much we cannot communicate honestly then we are in trouble.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I respect the rules, but police abuse directly affects the RKBA. As a former officer, I openly welcome constructive criticism and search for truth and justice. I cannot condone broad brushing or profiling a whole segment of society just for their color. I always thought we welcomed all races here, but I gotta admit I have seen a few slanted posts coyly referring to race not addressed. Federally profiling is illegal under the civil rights act. Violating civil rights is a clear illegal act. IMO censoring talk of single proven acts is supporting illegal activity.

    The admin here has been very lenient, but lately I get the feeling that it is changing with the intention to reduce overwatch. If we have to fear overwatch so much we cannot communicate honestly then we are in trouble.
    We agree on broad brushing not being acceptable and blanket negative statements regarding any religious group, race, etc will not be tolerated.

    Overwatch/reacting/posting of singular incidents of negative contact/interaction with LEOs is not restricted generally......unless or until such becomes a campaign by one or more posters who repeatedly/frequently make a practice of it. Then rules/called decisions will be invoked.

    Hope that clarifies.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  19. #19
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    As wolf said above, the behavior of the enforcement class directly affects the right to bear arms. To fight them, with arms if necessary, is the purpose for which the 2nd amendment is written. The government's hypocrisy and misuse of firearms serves to help and hinder our rights. For some it hinders because they're ignorant of guns and they think that special training is necessary to safely handle them. In their minds if cops can't handle guns, certainly mundanes can't either. It helps it in other ways because people see the gross incompetence and psychopathic behavior of many cops and then the cry that "only the military and police should have" a certain type or kind of weapon becomes ridiculous on its face.

    To limit "copwatch" material to the non carry forums like the social lounge is completely legitimate. To have a gun rights website and ban "copwatch" material completely is ridiculous and is one of the major downfalls of this site, IMO.
    Last edited by 77zach; 12-27-2014 at 05:50 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    As wolf said above, the behavior of the enforcement class directly affects the right to bear arms. To fight them, with arms if necessary, is the purpose for which the 2nd amendment is written. The government's hypocrisy and misuse of firearms serves to help and hinder our rights. For some it hinders because they're ignorant of guns and they think that special training is necessary to safely handle them. In their minds if cops can't handle guns, certainly mundanes can't either. It helps it in other ways because people see the gross incompetence and psychopathic behavior of many cops and then the cry that "only the military and police should have" a certain type or kind of weapon becomes ridiculous on its face.

    To limit "copwatch" material to the non carry forums like the social lounge is completely legitimate. To have a gun rights website and ban "copwatch" material completely is ridiculous and is one of the major downfalls of this site, IMO.
    A serious warning/caution regarding regarding "to fight them with arms if necessary." While I understand what our forefathers did and what the full depth of the 2nd Amendment encompasses, this is not the forum to espose/suggest an armed, locked & loaded, response to our dissatisfaction with any part of our government - make no mistake about that.

    Insofar as limiting CopWatch material - read my post #20 again......and again one more time. OCDO cannot be all things to all individuals - you are entitled to your opinion.

    OCDO is private property and all are reminded -
    ACCEPTANCE OF RULES If you do not agree with any of these Rules then please do not use this site, because BY USING THIS SITE YOU WILL BE DEEMED TO HAVE IRREVOCABLY AGREED TO THESE RULES. Please note that these Rules may be revised and reissued without notice at any time. You should review the current Rules regularly, since your continued use of the site will be deemed as irrevocable acceptance of any revisions.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    ...."The lie that Officer Wilson shot Brown while he had his hands up and was pleading “Don’t shoot.”

    The lie that New York City policemen targeted Eric Garner for a violent arrest because he was black.

    The lie, peddled especially by the progressive prince of New York City, Mayor de Blasio, that the police are racist.

    These are the lies that fuel hatred for the police, because if the police routinely execute black men in cold blood and serve a thoroughly racist system, they deserve to be hated.

    They should be the subject of nightly protests. They should be showered with obloquy."

    http://nypost.com/2014/12/24/lying-about-the-cops/


    Stop lying.
    If you say a lie long enough and loud enough it becomes the truth.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    BEGIN RANT:


    Quote Originally Posted by Logan 5 View Post
    But when you said "Adding to that familiar song is the reminder that OCDO has no intention of being another CopWatch." to me, a member of CopWatch, it comes across as an abrasive statement. .
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Overwatch/reacting/posting of singular incidents of negative contact/interaction with LEOs is not restricted generally......unless or until such becomes a campaign by one or more posters who repeatedly/frequently make a practice of it. Then rules/called decisions will be invoked.

    Hope that clarifies.
    I get very fatigued seeing Grape constantly reminding a few of us to "follow the Forum rules". More tedious is the reason he has to do it.
    I have not read the "rules". I will, in time, but I have not yet read them. Some of the rule are blatantly abused on a regular basis so I am very aware of those.
    I enjoy almost everyones input here. Please, give it a rest.

    END RANT
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    BEGIN RANT:
    I get very fatigued seeing Grape constantly reminding a few of us to "follow the Forum rules". More tedious is the reason he has to do it.
    I have not read the "rules". I will, in time, but I have not yet read them. Some of the rule are blatantly abused on a regular basis so I am very aware of those.
    I enjoy almost everyones input here. Please, give it a rest.

    END RANT
    Me too

    Rules not read: It's been 3 years since you registered - no dessert for you.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Me too

    Rules not read: It's been 3 years since you registered - no dessert for you.
    Smart, civil people shouldn't need the rules anyway. Rules are to remind idiots and a-holes how to act around smart, civil people.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  25. #25
    Regular Member Logan 5's Avatar
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    Hmmm. A good comparison, to express how I see this in comparison to what you have said (directed to Grapeshot), is real estate.


    Let's say I build a shopping mall. Everyone may come and go as they please. Is that now public property or private property?
    Private, of course. I, being the owner, can decide who can and cannot come onto the property. And we're not talking about franchise rights, either. Technically, and this may be outdated, if a mall owner says "John & Jane Doe of 123 City Street in Boogiewoogieville BFE" are not allowed on the mall property, franchises cannot trump this decision. And they likely won't dispute because those two people are not the primary income source of the franchise.

    And that includes protests. If a group comes onto the property to do a protest, as CopWatch has done on occasion, I being the mall owner can say if they can do it or not. If so, cool. If not, then it's trespassing. At the same time, I, the mall owner, cannot say anything that is slanderous or libelous about the CopWatch group.


    So Grape, when you say "another copWatch", I agree and understand. But when you say it like that it came across different than I suspect you intended.


    Using the comparison of the shopping mall, Opencarry.org is private property. That, I realize recognize and respect. Rules are the rules, and my apologies for my transgressions on those rules.

    And truly this is an Open Carry forum. I do not dispute that. The owner says "no long gun carry discussed", then no long gun carry is to be discussed. Not within reason, because within reason, this IS private property.

    With that said Grape, I never (contrary to your opinion of course) disputed that. I only have a few opinions that you and the owners disagree with.
    Lifetime member, Gun Owners of America (http://gunowners.org/)
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    Member, Fraternal Order of Eagles since 8/02 (http://www.foe.com/)

    Registering gun owners to prevent crime, is like registering Jews to prevent a HOLOCAUST.

    I am not a lawyer in real life, or in play life. So anything I say is for debate and discussion only.

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