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Thread: Receiving a Handgun as a gift...out of state

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    Receiving a Handgun as a gift...out of state

    I have been researching this all morning on the BATFE site and VA State Police site, but cannot quite get the answer to the precise issue. Here's the scenario...

    I am a resident of VA. My father (who is a PA resident), gave me a handgun as a christmas gift. There is no purchase, simply a gift between blood relatives.

    In order for me to possess it in VA, does it have to be sent to a VA FFL, from whom I take possession....or can I take direct possession of it and transport it myself to VA? What about if my father visited me, brought it along and transferred it to me in the state of VA?


    ...I think I know the answer, just looking for an authoritative answer.

    thnx
    Last edited by setch; 12-27-2014 at 12:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by setch View Post
    I have been researching this all morning on the BATFE site and VA State Police site, but cannot quite get the answer to the precise issue. Here's the scenario...

    I am a resident of VA. My father (who is a PA resident), gave me a handgun as a christmas gift. There is no purchase, simply a gift between blood relatives.

    In order for me to possess it in VA, does it have to be sent to a VA FFL, from whom I take possession....or can I take direct possession of it and transport it myself to VA? What about if my father visited me, brought it along and transferred it to me in the state of VA?


    ...I think I know the answer, just looking for an authoritative answer.

    thnx
    Direct interstate transfers of any firearms between (non FFL) residents of different states is unlawful.

    Handguns must go through a FFL in the recipient's state of residence. Long guns can be acquired at an FFL in any state.

    See the first three questios in this ATF FAQ:https://www.atf.gov/content/firearms...ensed-transfer


    18 US 922(a)(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

    18 USC 922(a)(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides...
    Last edited by notalawyer; 12-27-2014 at 12:48 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    The legal answer is it needs to go through an FFL but for the life of me I don't understand why people don't use a little common sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Direct interstate transfers of any firearms between (non FFL) residents of different states is unlawful.

    Handguns must go through a FFL in the recipient's state of residence. Long guns can be acquired at an FFL in any state.

    See the first three questios in this ATF FAQ:https://www.atf.gov/content/firearms...ensed-transfer
    I had seen those first three FAQs, which why I suspected the answer you had provided. I simply didn't know if a gift between blood relatives or the VA specific laws might might be meaningful.

    Thanks to both you and peter nap for the responses
    Last edited by setch; 12-27-2014 at 01:01 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    BTW - there is nothing that would prevent your father from bringing the handgun to a FFL in Virginia and iniiating the process there "on the spot".

    He gives it to the FFL, saying "I'm a resident of PA. Here's my ID. I want to transfer this handgun to my son, who is a resident of VA. Son, show him your ID."

    From there everything flows as if he had shipped the handgun to the FFL with instructions to transfer it to you.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member Chief Ten Beers's Avatar
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    Does either state, Pennsylvania or Virginia require registration of guns?
    If you're not ashamed to own it, don't be ashamed to open carry it.

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    Concealed carry, where you HIDE the exercise of your right to carry arms.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Ten Beers View Post
    Does either state, Pennsylvania or Virginia require registration of guns?
    Va doesn't and I don't think PA....but don't go there.

    That was the common sense comment I made but going further is not allowed on the board.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Va doesn't and I don't think PA....but don't go there.

    That was the common sense comment I made but going further is not allowed on the board.
    In a majority of states, the loan of a gun doesn't require an FFL and as far as I know there is no time limit on how long the gun can be out on loan - just don't intend to forget about it.

    Can someone shed some light on this?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    In a majority of states, the loan of a gun doesn't require an FFL and as far as I know there is no time limit on how long the gun can be out on loan - just don't intend to forget about it.

    Can someone shed some light on this?
    Grapeshot - Taking the handgun across state lines to loan it is still an interstate transfer. Your "suggestion" skirts the edges of the law. The time needed to do a lawful transfer is minimal and could be a great father/son bonding experience.

    Besides, it's supposed to be a Christmas gift, not a Christmas "loan".

    Setch - Virginia does not register handguns. That's all you need to be worried about. According to this http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state...nsylvania.aspx PA does not register handguns either. Should not be any need to take the new handgun with you the next time you go duck hunting/fishing/canoeing.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    In a majority of states, the loan of a gun doesn't require an FFL and as far as I know there is no time limit on how long the gun can be out on loan - just don't intend to forget about it.

    Can someone shed some light on this?
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Grapeshot - Taking the handgun across state lines to loan it is still an interstate transfer. Your "suggestion" skirts the edges of the law. The time needed to do a lawful transfer is minimal and could be a great father/son bonding experience.

    --snipped--
    Of course you are right. Was confusing my own thinking of within a state (as has been in the news recently) and interstate.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    If,,, Setch used to reside in Pa. with his dad..
    And now they both recall,, that way back then, his dad had given Setch that handgun.
    And that Setch had forgotten it when he moved to Va,,
    because, way back then, he had stored some of his possessions in the attic,
    but just recently his dad found the stored items, called Setch to remind him of those stored things.

    If that is how they recall these events,, then dad can bring Setch his things,
    or Setch can go and get them and bring them to his home in Va...
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    WHY ARE YOU ALL LOOKING FOR WAYS TO BREAK THE LAW? [yes, ALL CAPS because I am shounting and angry]

    We know the true situation, and pretty much all of us (me included) think and believe that the GCA of 1968 is stupid, ineffective, cumbersome, intrusive and a royal invasion of privacy. But the way to deal with it is to get the law repealed, or amended if you think any part of it should remain. Making suggestions of how a new member here can expose themself to a federal felony conviction, an extended vacation in prison, a large monetary fine, and the loss of his right to keep and bear arms is NOT the way to go.

    Having gotten that off my chest, I now return you to your dumbassery in the hopes that none of you realize that you are liable as accessories before the fact.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ^ ^ Skidmark makes excellent points ^ ^

    And the Forum Rules reference this too:
    (15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.

    While I think some may have meant their responses to be tongue-in-cheek that was not clearly indicated + those less informed and the general public reading these pages will not be so enlightened as to intent. They will see it as OCDO suggesting remedies that are most likely illegal - that is fraught with problems both for the individual and this site.

    No more ladies and gentlemen - follow the law and the rules!
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Chief Ten Beers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Va doesn't and I don't think PA....but don't go there.

    That was the common sense comment I made but going further is not allowed on the board.
    The only way I can see going through an FFL to transfer a gun is if the gun is being shipped, but if it's being hand delivered, then why go through an FFL?
    If you're not ashamed to own it, don't be ashamed to open carry it.

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    Concealed carry, where you HIDE the exercise of your right to carry arms.

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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    I have not read anything in the second amendment that addresses transfers. If the founding fathers wanted restrictions like the 1968 control act, would they have not written it into the 2nd amendment or at least would have discussed their position and intent to what the 2nd amendment means.
    Every letter, article, or qoute I have read from the founders about the 2nd has zero to do with gun restrictions, but about restricting the government.

    It seems to me the 1968 act is violating the law, the supreme law and I do not need a court to tell me that. Let me be clear that I am not advocating for anyone to violate any law, just saying how I see it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Ummmm.....what about all the "Will Not Comply" threads in Washington?
    Belatedly saw that - the horse is already out of the barn.

    Will discuss with John at earliest time as to how he would like this addressed....after the fact.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    If,,, Setch used to reside in Pa. with his dad..
    And now they both recall,, that way back then, his dad had given Setch that handgun.
    And that Setch had forgotten it when he moved to Va,,
    because, way back then, he had stored some of his possessions in the attic,
    but just recently his dad found the stored items, called Setch to remind him of those stored things.

    If that is how they recall these events,, then dad can bring Setch his things,
    or Setch can go and get them and bring them to his home in Va...
    Still illegal. (Regardless of how they 'recall' the events.) Dad, the resident of another state has possession; transfer of possession between residents off different states (while a really stupid law) is still illegal.

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    Skidmark's right. It only costs about $25 around where I live to do the transfer via FFL. I figure if the OP was concerned because he's a fugitive, a convicted felon, an illegal colonist, subject to a protective order or a crazy person, then he wouldn't have asked the question. So why not just visit your friendly local FFL and do the thing the right way?
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Freedom View Post
    I have not read anything in the second amendment that addresses transfers. If the founding fathers wanted restrictions like the 1968 control act, would they have not written it into the 2nd amendment or at least would have discussed their position and intent to what the 2nd amendment means.
    Every letter, article, or qoute I have read from the founders about the 2nd has zero to do with gun restrictions, but about restricting the government.

    It seems to me the 1968 act is violating the law, the supreme law and I do not need a court to tell me that. Let me be clear that I am not advocating for anyone to violate any law, just saying how I see it.
    You put forth a view held by many, but unfortunately it overlooks the role that Congress gets to play in the implementation of these venerable truths, which does carry significant legal weight. The bright spot here is that slowly, over time, the infringements of which you speak are being examined and pared back.
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Freedom View Post
    I have not read anything in the second amendment that addresses transfers. If the founding fathers wanted restrictions like the 1968 control act, would they have not written it into the 2nd amendment or at least would have discussed their position and intent to what the 2nd amendment means.
    Every letter, article, or qoute I have read from the founders about the 2nd has zero to do with gun restrictions, but about restricting the government.

    It seems to me the 1968 act is violating the law, the supreme law and I do not need a court to tell me that. Let me be clear that I am not advocating for anyone to violate any law, just saying how I see it.
    For crying out loud....
    What we do on our own time is our business but the OP is a newbie asking what is legal and not.

    The bottom line, despite all the patriot flag waving, the board rules say no illegal discussion and before anyone says it, I don't give a rats backsides what's going on in the Washington forum....This is Virginia.

    The law, as much as we dislike it, says thou shalt use an FFL for out of state transactions and if he does otherwise, the powers may smite him (always wanted to say that)

    If he hadn't mentioned it on a board that is frequented by LEO's and other such creatures, he wouldn't have taken much of a chance just taking the damn thing home....but it still would have been illegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2a4all View Post
    You put forth a view held by many, but unfortunately it overlooks the role that Congress gets to play in the implementation of these venerable truths, which does carry significant legal weight. The bright spot here is that slowly, over time, the infringements of which you speak are being examined and pared back.
    The system being what it is...

    I can imagine a situation in which I'm there in court arguing that "shall not be infringed" means exactly what it says. Yeah, like that's gonna work. Probably generate a case of malpractice against me.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The "system" does work. Not always to our liking, but it does work. Want to win? Then best one be aware of how the system functions and why + involve someone with an extensive knowledge, backed with extremely good research capacity, of applicable statutes and case law. That means I will not defend myself - that is too much like going naked into the lion's den.

    User once said something like, "Innocent clients are the best to ones to have." We should all take heed of all that implies.
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member BillB's Avatar
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    Y'all think the same way regarding the federal gun-free school zones act?
    Open carry lets you tote a bigger gun.

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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    The right way or the legal way? The two are often not the same. We have made many right actions illegal in this country. It's not right that a person has to pay for a government background check to give their son a firearm....but that is what it takes to be legal in this case.
    The voice of a reasonable Man!!! ^^^^^^^


    Other than that,,,

    The Stupid,,, and the State lovers,,, is strong in this thread!
    pass the popcorn...
    lets tattle to john
    i found your wallet,,, now i own it
    lets tell the .gov we are guilty
    let all states, and the commonwealths too, embrace Washington States new I-594 law!
    my unalienable rights become yours,,, as soon as I walk away, or just forget where I left them.


    I seem to have stirred up a poop storm!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    Why wouldn't we? The FGFSZA does nothing but keep law abiding citizens from carrying guns within 1000' of a school (with the exceptions). It's definitely not right, but it is what the law is. Is it right to have to unload your gun and lock it in a case within 1000' of a school just because you don't have a permit issued by the same state the school zone is located in? No, absolutely not. But that is what it takes to be legal.
    A little more, that has never been enforced as a primary offense that I know of even though tens of thousands of people do it every day. ..but even so I wouldn't get on the Internet and announce I planned to do it tomorrow.

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