Receiving a Handgun as a gift...out of state

setch · Dec 27, 2014

I have been researching this all morning on the BATFE site and VA State Police site, but cannot quite get the answer to the precise issue. Here's the scenario...

I am a resident of VA. My father (who is a PA resident), gave me a handgun as a christmas gift. There is no purchase, simply a gift between blood relatives.

In order for me to possess it in VA, does it have to be sent to a VA FFL, from whom I take possession....or can I take direct possession of it and transport it myself to VA? What about if my father visited me, brought it along and transferred it to me in the state of VA?

...I think I know the answer, just looking for an authoritative answer.

thnx

notalawyer · Dec 27, 2014

setch said:
I have been researching this all morning on the BATFE site and VA State Police site, but cannot quite get the answer to the precise issue. Here's the scenario...

I am a resident of VA. My father (who is a PA resident), gave me a handgun as a christmas gift. There is no purchase, simply a gift between blood relatives.

In order for me to possess it in VA, does it have to be sent to a VA FFL, from whom I take possession....or can I take direct possession of it and transport it myself to VA? What about if my father visited me, brought it along and transferred it to me in the state of VA?

...I think I know the answer, just looking for an authoritative answer.

thnx

Direct interstate transfers of any firearms between (non FFL) residents of different states is unlawful.

Handguns must go through a FFL in the recipient's state of residence. Long guns can be acquired at an FFL in any state.

See the first three questios in this ATF FAQ:https://www.atf.gov/content/firearms-frequently-asked-questions-unlicensed-persons#gca-unlicensed-transfer

18 US 922(a)(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

18 USC 922(a)(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides...

peter nap · Dec 27, 2014

The legal answer is it needs to go through an FFL but for the life of me I don't understand why people don't use a little common sense.

setch · Dec 27, 2014

notalawyer said:
Direct interstate transfers of any firearms between (non FFL) residents of different states is unlawful.

Handguns must go through a FFL in the recipient's state of residence. Long guns can be acquired at an FFL in any state.

See the first three questios in this ATF FAQ:https://www.atf.gov/content/firearms-frequently-asked-questions-unlicensed-persons#gca-unlicensed-transfer

I had seen those first three FAQs, which why I suspected the answer you had provided. I simply didn't know if a gift between blood relatives or the VA specific laws might might be meaningful.

Thanks to both you and peter nap for the responses

skidmark · Dec 27, 2014

BTW - there is nothing that would prevent your father from bringing the handgun to a FFL in Virginia and iniiating the process there "on the spot".

He gives it to the FFL, saying "I'm a resident of PA. Here's my ID. I want to transfer this handgun to my son, who is a resident of VA. Son, show him your ID."

From there everything flows as if he had shipped the handgun to the FFL with instructions to transfer it to you.

stay safe.

Chief Ten Beers · Dec 27, 2014

Does either state, Pennsylvania or Virginia require registration of guns?

peter nap · Dec 27, 2014

Chief Ten Beers said:
Does either state, Pennsylvania or Virginia require registration of guns?

Va doesn't and I don't think PA....but don't go there.

That was the common sense comment I made but going further is not allowed on the board.

Grapeshot · Dec 27, 2014

peter nap said:
Va doesn't and I don't think PA....but don't go there.

That was the common sense comment I made but going further is not allowed on the board.

In a majority of states, the loan of a gun doesn't require an FFL and as far as I know there is no time limit on how long the gun can be out on loan - just don't intend to forget about it.

Can someone shed some light on this?

skidmark · Dec 27, 2014

Grapeshot said:
In a majority of states, the loan of a gun doesn't require an FFL and as far as I know there is no time limit on how long the gun can be out on loan - just don't intend to forget about it.

Can someone shed some light on this?

Grapeshot - Taking the handgun across state lines to loan it is still an interstate transfer. Your "suggestion" skirts the edges of the law. The time needed to do a lawful transfer is minimal and could be a great father/son bonding experience.

Besides, it's supposed to be a Christmas gift, not a Christmas "loan".

Setch - Virginia does not register handguns. That's all you need to be worried about. According to this http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-laws/pennsylvania.aspx PA does not register handguns either. Should not be any need to take the new handgun with you the next time you go duck hunting/fishing/canoeing.

stay safe.

Grapeshot · Dec 27, 2014

Grapeshot said:
In a majority of states, the loan of a gun doesn't require an FFL and as far as I know there is no time limit on how long the gun can be out on loan - just don't intend to forget about it.

Can someone shed some light on this?

skidmark said:
Grapeshot - Taking the handgun across state lines to loan it is still an interstate transfer. Your "suggestion" skirts the edges of the law. The time needed to do a lawful transfer is minimal and could be a great father/son bonding experience.

--snipped--

Of course you are right. Was confusing my own thinking of within a state (as has been in the news recently) and interstate.

1245A Defender · Dec 27, 2014

Well,,,

If,,, Setch used to reside in Pa. with his dad..
And now they both recall,, that way back then, his dad had given Setch that handgun.
And that Setch had forgotten it when he moved to Va,,
because, way back then, he had stored some of his possessions in the attic,
but just recently his dad found the stored items, called Setch to remind him of those stored things.

If that is how they recall these events,, then dad can bring Setch his things,
or Setch can go and get them and bring them to his home in Va...

skidmark · Dec 28, 2014

WHY ARE YOU ALL LOOKING FOR WAYS TO BREAK THE LAW? [yes, ALL CAPS because I am shounting and angry]

We know the true situation, and pretty much all of us (me included) think and believe that the GCA of 1968 is stupid, ineffective, cumbersome, intrusive and a royal invasion of privacy. But the way to deal with it is to get the law repealed, or amended if you think any part of it should remain. Making suggestions of how a new member here can expose themself to a federal felony conviction, an extended vacation in prison, a large monetary fine, and the loss of his right to keep and bear arms is NOT the way to go.

Having gotten that off my chest, I now return you to your dumbassery in the hopes that none of you realize that you are liable as accessories before the fact.

stay safe.

Grapeshot · Dec 28, 2014

^ ^ Skidmark makes excellent points ^ ^

And the Forum Rules reference this too:
(15) WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.

While I think some may have meant their responses to be tongue-in-cheek that was not clearly indicated + those less informed and the general public reading these pages will not be so enlightened as to intent. They will see it as OCDO suggesting remedies that are most likely illegal - that is fraught with problems both for the individual and this site.

No more ladies and gentlemen - follow the law and the rules!

Chief Ten Beers · Dec 28, 2014

peter nap said:
Va doesn't and I don't think PA....but don't go there.

That was the common sense comment I made but going further is not allowed on the board.

The only way I can see going through an FFL to transfer a gun is if the gun is being shipped, but if it's being hand delivered, then why go through an FFL?

OC Freedom · Dec 28, 2014

I have not read anything in the second amendment that addresses transfers. If the founding fathers wanted restrictions like the 1968 control act, would they have not written it into the 2nd amendment or at least would have discussed their position and intent to what the 2nd amendment means.
Every letter, article, or qoute I have read from the founders about the 2nd has zero to do with gun restrictions, but about restricting the government.

It seems to me the 1968 act is violating the law, the supreme law and I do not need a court to tell me that. Let me be clear that I am not advocating for anyone to violate any law, just saying how I see it.

Grapeshot · Dec 28, 2014

NavyLCDR said:
Ummmm.....what about all the "Will Not Comply" threads in Washington?

Belatedly saw that - the horse is already out of the barn.

Will discuss with John at earliest time as to how he would like this addressed....after the fact.

notalawyer · Dec 28, 2014

1245A Defender said:
If,,, Setch used to reside in Pa. with his dad..
And now they both recall,, that way back then, his dad had given Setch that handgun.
And that Setch had forgotten it when he moved to Va,,
because, way back then, he had stored some of his possessions in the attic,
but just recently his dad found the stored items, called Setch to remind him of those stored things.

If that is how they recall these events,, then dad can bring Setch his things,
or Setch can go and get them and bring them to his home in Va...

Still illegal. (Regardless of how they 'recall' the events.) Dad, the resident of another state has possession; transfer of possession between residents off different states (while a really stupid law) is still illegal.

user · Dec 28, 2014

Skidmark's right. It only costs about $25 around where I live to do the transfer via FFL. I figure if the OP was concerned because he's a fugitive, a convicted felon, an illegal colonist, subject to a protective order or a crazy person, then he wouldn't have asked the question. So why not just visit your friendly local FFL and do the thing the right way?

2a4all · Dec 28, 2014

OC Freedom said:
I have not read anything in the second amendment that addresses transfers. If the founding fathers wanted restrictions like the 1968 control act, would they have not written it into the 2nd amendment or at least would have discussed their position and intent to what the 2nd amendment means.
Every letter, article, or qoute I have read from the founders about the 2nd has zero to do with gun restrictions, but about restricting the government.

It seems to me the 1968 act is violating the law, the supreme law and I do not need a court to tell me that. Let me be clear that I am not advocating for anyone to violate any law, just saying how I see it.

You put forth a view held by many, but unfortunately it overlooks the role that Congress gets to play in the implementation of these venerable truths, which does carry significant legal weight. The bright spot here is that slowly, over time, the infringements of which you speak are being examined and pared back.

peter nap · Dec 28, 2014

OC Freedom said:
I have not read anything in the second amendment that addresses transfers. If the founding fathers wanted restrictions like the 1968 control act, would they have not written it into the 2nd amendment or at least would have discussed their position and intent to what the 2nd amendment means.
Every letter, article, or qoute I have read from the founders about the 2nd has zero to do with gun restrictions, but about restricting the government.

It seems to me the 1968 act is violating the law, the supreme law and I do not need a court to tell me that. Let me be clear that I am not advocating for anyone to violate any law, just saying how I see it.

For crying out loud....
What we do on our own time is our business but the OP is a newbie asking what is legal and not.

The bottom line, despite all the patriot flag waving, the board rules say no illegal discussion and before anyone says it, I don't give a rats backsides what's going on in the Washington forum....This is Virginia.

The law, as much as we dislike it, says thou shalt use an FFL for out of state transactions and if he does otherwise, the powers may smite him (always wanted to say that)

If he hadn't mentioned it on a board that is frequented by LEO's and other such creatures, he wouldn't have taken much of a chance just taking the damn thing home....but it still would have been illegal. :uhoh:

Receiving a Handgun as a gift...out of state

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