Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Open Carry is to the 2A as wearing a headscarf, a yarmulke or a crucifix is to the 1A

  1. #1
    Regular Member Lafayette's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Central VA
    Posts
    69

    Open Carry is to the 2A as wearing a headscarf, a yarmulke or a crucifix is to the 1A

    As someone relatively new to the USA that has lived his life in several countries including Australia, New Zealand, Syria, Qatar and visited others like Turkey, Lebanon, Sudan, Oman and the UAE, I have witnessed many systems of government ranging from absolute monarchies, constitutional monarchies, tyrannical dictatorships and some were police states.

    I have witnessed intolerance to religion or religious groups in many of those countries. Turkey, with its strict imposed secularism imposes secular beliefs like Saudi imposes religion on people. Australia, with its intense bigotry of Muslims and people 'of Middle Eastern descent' and the UAE that doesn't allow churches to be built.

    In the US however, the Government, for the most part protects our right to practice our religion. Not only in our homes, but open displays of religiosity are not only respected, but protected by our Constitution. Unlike many countries you can profess your religious beliefs openly and essentially build your places of worship anywhere you like.

    Some people however don't like the free and open expression of religion. They confuse a person's own expression religiosity ie the wearing of a crucifix, headscarf or yarmulke or even street preaching with that person imposing their beliefs on them and therefore want to stifle or limit the expression of religion.

    The only natural response by those that would like to protect their rights to worship as they please is to express it even more openly to normalize it because to stop doing so, just because others might be uncomfortable with it is to forsake their rights with the end result being as Turkey was in recent history, where the open expression of religion is persecuted by the government.

    Similarly, in today's Bloomberg funded, hoplophobic climate the very right to keep and bear arms comes under attack by the same types of irrational people that can't tolerate or respect anything that they don't personally believe in. To protect that right, open-carry becomes not only an option, but an obligation to safeguarding of our rights to keep and bear arms.

    Does Open Carry lead to tension and negative reactions? Yes, but so did Rosa Parks by refusing to get out of her seat and move to the back of the bus. The fault in both of these examples is not of the person standing up for their rights, but those that would infringe on their rights, just because it makes them uncomfortable.

    So to those gun owners that don't like to open carry and would prefer instead to carry concealed, by all means go for it but you should support your brothers and sisters in this struggle when they take the burden on of protecting your rights rather than criticize them when someone wants to infringe on it.

    Lafayette

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,619
    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    --snipped--
    Does Open Carry lead to tension and negative reactions? Yes, but so did Rosa Parks by refusing to get out of her seat and move to the back of the bus. The fault in both of these examples is not of the person standing up for their rights, but those that would infringe on their rights, just because it makes them uncomfortable.

    So to those gun owners that don't like to open carry and would prefer instead to carry concealed, by all means go for it but you should support your brothers and sisters in this struggle when they take the burden on of protecting your rights rather than criticize them when someone wants to infringe on it.

    Lafayette
    Virginia OCers for the most part receive very few negative reactions to OC, except from the Mad Moms group - they look like the have eaten unripe persimmons.

    OCing while generally seen as related to the 2nd Amendment as is also exercising your 1st Amendment rights - we express ourselves and educate everywhere we go by virtue of OCing.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Lafayette's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Central VA
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Virginia OCers for the most part receive very few negative reactions to OC, except from the Mad Moms group - they look like the have eaten unripe persimmons.
    Thank you for your reply. I agree with you and at this stage I've had no negative reactions to OC in VA. I've only done it for a few days though, we'll see how it progresses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    OCing while generally seen as related to the 2nd Amendment as is also exercising your 1st Amendment rights - we express ourselves and educate everywhere we go by virtue of OCing.
    I completely agree with OC being a form of expression under the 1st Amendment as much as it is a part of the 2nd Amendment. The analogy I was making though was that the free and open practice of that right is what will ultimately protect it.
    Last edited by Lafayette; 12-27-2014 at 02:58 PM.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Welcome to OCDO, and to Virginia. Check out VCDL www.vcdl.org and consider signing up for the free "ALERTS" newsletter if not outright joining. Meet us at the General Assembly Building on Lobby Day (Jan 19th) to exercise both your other 1st Amendment right to petition for redress of grievances and your 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms - in the very home of your elected officials.

    Check to see where we will be gathering for dinner and fellowship the night before Lobby Day.

    I encourage you, if you are willing, to contact the VCDL President president@vcdl.org to speak on Lobby Day, saying a few words about how it feels to live in a country that (at least in theory) does not fear its citizens being armed.

    I was born in the USA but spent a lot of time travelling with my family around the world to countries like those that you mentioned. The travels started when I was just barely old enough to understand that Americans had "freedom" and that the citizens of most of the countries I visited had fewer, if any, freedoms. By the time my family settled down I understood just how wonderful this screwed-up country was. Someone once said "American is the worst country in the world - except for all the rest."

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  5. #5
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,278
    I think a women in a burka or a man with a whatever they call the headgarb OCing would attract attention. While OCing has gained large leaps and bounds of acceptance I have seen an actual drop in minorities OCing. And it would seem there has been a drop in the posting on this site by minorities. In general I have seen a awful shift towards more bigotry that will affect the RKBA.

    I am no angel, but I have been disgusted by what I have witnessed take place in both social media and in the public arena. The hatred has really come out of the closet, and isn't that what caused the loss of rights in those other countries, ignorance and hatred?

    I have to give OCT huge kudos for the number of minorities in their numbers and their attempts to welcome them to the fight.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  6. #6
    Regular Member Lafayette's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Central VA
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Welcome to OCDO, and to Virginia. Check out VCDL www.vcdl.org and consider signing up for the free "ALERTS" newsletter if not outright joining. Meet us at the General Assembly Building on Lobby Day (Jan 19th) to exercise both your other 1st Amendment right to petition for redress of grievances and your 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms - in the very home of your elected officials.

    Check to see where we will be gathering for dinner and fellowship the night before Lobby Day.

    I encourage you, if you are willing, to contact the VCDL President president@vcdl.org to speak on Lobby Day, saying a few words about how it feels to live in a country that (at least in theory) does not fear its citizens being armed.

    I was born in the USA but spent a lot of time travelling with my family around the world to countries like those that you mentioned. The travels started when I was just barely old enough to understand that Americans had "freedom" and that the citizens of most of the countries I visited had fewer, if any, freedoms. By the time my family settled down I understood just how wonderful this screwed-up country was. Someone once said "American is the worst country in the world - except for all the rest."

    stay safe.
    Thank you for your reply and thoughts. I actually joined VCDL even before moving to VA and think it is a wonderful organization.

    I completely agree with your opinion that this country has strayed over time. That is largely due to the apathy of the people who over time became distracted at unimportant things that took them away from their obligations to preserving the great republic that its' Founders bled for and struggled so hard to build. All is not lost though, this nation can still be put back on the right track.

    I will consider your suggestion to contact the president of the VCDL but at this stage I'm quite sure that there are many other people more important than myself that have more to say.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Lafayette's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Central VA
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I think a women in a burka or a man with a whatever they call the headgarb OCing would attract attention. While OCing has gained large leaps and bounds of acceptance I have seen an actual drop in minorities OCing. And it would seem there has been a drop in the posting on this site by minorities. In general I have seen a awful shift towards more bigotry that will affect the RKBA.

    I am no angel, but I have been disgusted by what I have witnessed take place in both social media and in the public arena. The hatred has really come out of the closet, and isn't that what caused the loss of rights in those other countries, ignorance and hatred?

    I have to give OCT huge kudos for the number of minorities in their numbers and their attempts to welcome them to the fight.
    My wife wears a headscarf, I open carry whilst out with her. So far we haven't had any negative experiences, though time will ultimately tell.

    I have to say, I absolutely love Virginia.. I loved it before moving to the US and have not been disappoitned by it at all.

    I'm curious though, what is OCT?

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,619
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    --snipped--

    I encourage you, if you are willing, to contact the VCDL President president@vcdl.org to speak on Lobby Day, saying a few words about how it feels to live in a country that (at least in theory) does not fear its citizens being armed.

    stay safe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    --snipped--
    I will consider your suggestion to contact the president of the VCDL but at this stage I'm quite sure that there are many other people more important than myself that have more to say.
    Actually Skid's suggestion is an excellent one. While I am not sure that the speakers time slots have all been taken, your story has much to offer and would be extremely well received IMO.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  9. #9
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,278
    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    My wife wears a headscarf, I open carry whilst out with her. So far we haven't had any negative experiences, though time will ultimately tell.

    I have to say, I absolutely love Virginia.. I loved it before moving to the US and have not been disappoitned by it at all.

    I'm curious though, what is OCT?
    Open Carry Texas

    Glad to hear you have not had any problems, we used to see blacks OC around here, but that is rare now. The Hispanics I have talked to about it are absolutely terrified of the policia. From what I have read on social media last few years from the GP is out right scary.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  10. #10
    Regular Member Lafayette's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Central VA
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Open Carry Texas

    Glad to hear you have not had any problems, we used to see blacks OC around here, but that is rare now. The Hispanics I have talked to about it are absolutely terrified of the policia. From what I have read on social media last few years from the GP is out right scary.
    Great to hear that OCT is doing well then.

    I believe that it is important to OC and a good measure of how much people really care about rights is when people of different races and religions (yes, even Muslims) can OC and have the majority 'white' Christian OC community stand up for their rights to do so in addition to welcoming them with open arms.

    I haven't met any other OC'ers here but hope to build some friendships with some.

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,619
    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    Great to hear that OCT is doing well then.

    I believe that it is important to OC and a good measure of how much people really care about rights is when people of different races and religions (yes, even Muslims) can OC and have the majority 'white' Christian OC community stand up for their rights to do so in addition to welcoming them with open arms.

    I haven't met any other OC'ers here but hope to build some friendships with some.
    There is one race IMO - the human race.

    Don't know your location as you only show it as "central Virginia", but if you are anywhere close to Greater Richmond we have an OC breakfast most every Saturday and a dinner on the 2nd Tuesday of each month. At these one may OC, CC, or noC - just bring your appetite and be ready to meet some good folks + take part in some great conversations.

    The breakfast location will be posted either Thursday late or sometime Friday each week. OC dinner plans are posted 1 1/2 to 2 weeks in advance. Come on out and enjoy, bring your partner, kids are always welcomed.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Lafayette's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Central VA
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    There is one race IMO - the human race.

    Don't know your location as you only show it as "central Virginia", but if you are anywhere close to Greater Richmond we have an OC breakfast most every Saturday and a dinner on the 2nd Tuesday of each month. At these one may OC, CC, or noC - just bring your appetite and be ready to meet some good folks + take part in some great conversations.

    The breakfast location will be posted either Thursday late or sometime Friday each week. OC dinner plans are posted 1 1/2 to 2 weeks in advance. Come on out and enjoy, bring your partner, kids are always welcomed.
    That sounds wonderful. I'm a couple hours NW from you so the next time I'm there on a Saturday morning I'll come.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    T...

    I will consider your suggestion to contact the president of the VCDL but at this stage I'm quite sure that there are many other people more important than myself that have more to say.
    Respectfully, I disagree completely and utterly. We've heard the lyrics before, and sung the chorus together over and over. Many (most?) of the folks do not have any real understanding of just how powerful and empowering the right to keep and bear arms really is. One of the most moving "speeches" I've ever heard was from a young lady who had come to the USA from an Eastern European country. She shared the personal and political differences from one who had lived them.

    Again, I encourage you to contact the VCDL President, introduce yourself, and ask for a few minutes to share your story. We would all benefit from being reinvigorated, and there's always the possibility that the politicians and their flacks will hear/read your remarks.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  14. #14
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,318
    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    ...

    I completely agree with your opinion that this country has strayed over time. That is largely due to the apathy of the people who over time became distracted at unimportant things that took them away from their obligations to preserving the great republic that its' Founders bled for and struggled so hard to build. All is not lost though, this nation can still be put back on the right track.

    ...
    Many people are pessimistic of our state of affairs these days, but the optimism shared from your perspective is really encouraging and refreshing.
    Advocate freedom please

  15. #15
    Regular Member Lafayette's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Central VA
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Respectfully, I disagree completely and utterly. We've heard the lyrics before, and sung the chorus together over and over. Many (most?) of the folks do not have any real understanding of just how powerful and empowering the right to keep and bear arms really is. One of the most moving "speeches" I've ever heard was from a young lady who had come to the USA from an Eastern European country. She shared the personal and political differences from one who had lived them.

    Again, I encourage you to contact the VCDL President, introduce yourself, and ask for a few minutes to share your story. We would all benefit from being reinvigorated, and there's always the possibility that the politicians and their flacks will hear/read your remarks.

    stay safe.
    I'll give it some thought. At this stage I don't necessarily like using my name in public when speaking so it might be an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Many people are pessimistic of our state of affairs these days, but the optimism shared from your perspective is really encouraging and refreshing.
    Thank you! Once you've lived in places where your right to keep and bear arms is not respected at all by the government and you have secret police following you around everywhere and searching you and your apartment without any warrants, let alone reasonable suspicion or probable cause then you begin to appreciate how far gone this nation isn't, as opposed to how far gone it is.

    It will require us to put some hard work in but we can do it together.

  16. #16
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,278
    Very few nations recognize the right to bear arms, though some allow it with controls. I went through a list at one time of gun rights and all I could find was the US. We need to fight to keep it, if others are to keep what they have left.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Tempe, Arizona
    Posts
    189
    Kudos to the OP for a good post. This is one of the reasons I open carried an AR-15 to Phoenix Sky Harbor airport.

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Well said, Lafayette!
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •