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Thread: Duty to notify??

  1. #1
    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    Duty to notify??

    The Lee Brothers on WRVA radio 1140 am talk show just said you HAVE to notify an officer if you are armed in your car at a traffic stop if you have the CHP (which they know from your license). Is that true? Said he should have known it as it is the first thing they teach in the CHP "class." Said you will pi** off the officer if you fail to notify him. I thought we said that is just an urban rumor. Anyone? If not true, someone call in and set the record straight, please, before 50 more cops hear this and think it is true.
    VCDL, Army Vet, Virginia Native

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    They [KNOW] not of what they speak of.


    There is no Duty to notify in VA, CHP or not.
    Last edited by Marco; 12-31-2014 at 09:06 AM. Reason: thx for the correction Mark
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    They appear to have moved on to other subjects. Took me a few minutes to get tuned in, did they correct the misinformation?

    TFred

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    They [know] not of what they speak of.

    There is no Duty to notify in VA, CHP or not.
    'zactly Marco.

    Interesting that these "Lee Brothers" were speaking in terms of CHP holders, likely overlooking the open carrier completely. I wonder if they also believe that an open carrier should be compelled to immediately call out the presence of their sidearm.

    Glad I never took a "CHP class." Sounds like a good source of misinformation (ProShooter excluded, of course).

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Has anybody contacted them to tell them of their error? They are usually pretty good about correcting misinformation on air.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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  6. #6
    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Has anybody contacted them to tell them of their error? They are usually pretty good about correcting misinformation on air.

    stay safe.
    I have just returned home to get to a computer. In fact, VCDL President Philip Van Cleave came on the air (here comes the cavalry!) and explained that his (Mr. Lee) statement was not according to the Virginia law. He said there is NO DUTY to inform the officer of your armed status. He did encourage people to hand the CHP to the officer at the same time you present your license, which seems gracious, until I contemplated maybe this is how we get these stupid expectations started? Maybe because some of us go "above and beyond" in being gracious citizens, next thing the cops start demanding it, and spouting it off as "the law." Hmmmmm? Maybe we are our own worst enemy of freedom? A long time after Philip was gone off the air, the Lee man brought it back up, and started backpedaling, saying that was NOT what he said, but he certainly did, and I'm guessing he must have got a bunch of calls criticizing him for his ignorance on-air, so he felt the need to parse his words. THEN, to beat all, PVC invited him to be a speaker at Lobby Day!
    Last edited by Old Virginia Joe; 12-30-2014 at 08:32 PM.
    VCDL, Army Vet, Virginia Native

    Hey, Libtards, it's the "Bill of Rights," not the "Bill of Needs" . . . . .

    If the 2A does not apply to modern weapons, then the 1A does not apply to modern communications like the Internet! How do you like them apples!?

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    Made you say "duty" lol

    Really, cops should have to inform you last time that they shot someone in the back !

    How 'bout that idea?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    The Lee Brothers are serious advocates of freedom. That they sometimes get things sideways should not be a reason to write them off.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    I have just returned home to get to a computer. In fact, VCDL President Philip Van Cleave came on the air (here comes the cavalry!) and explained that his (Mr. Lee) statement was not according to the Virginia law. He said there is NO DUTY to inform the officer of your armed status. He did encourage people to hand the CHP to the officer at the same time you present your license, which seems gracious, until I contemplated maybe this is how we get these stupid expectations started? Maybe because some of us go "above and beyond" in being gracious citizens, next thing the cops start demanding it, and spouting it off as "the law." Hmmmmm? Maybe we are our own worst enemy of freedom? A long time after Philip was gone off the air, the Lee man brought it back up, and started backpedaling, saying that was NOT what he said, but he certainly did, and I'm guessing he must have got a bunch of calls criticizing him for his ignorance on-air, so he felt the need to parse his words. THEN, to beat all, PVC invited him to be a speaker at Lobby Day!
    Most "pro-2nd" organizations say or do things to make them seem like they are pro-cop. Here's one example.

    And yes, it makes them look less "pro-2nd".

    And yes, it does make them less "pro-2nd".

    They all want to say "we support cops" ... why? Beats me.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    The Lee Brothers on WRVA radio 1140 am talk show just said you HAVE to notify an officer if you are armed in your car at a traffic stop if you have the CHP (which they know from your license). Is that true? Said he should have known it as it is the first thing they teach in the CHP "class." Said you will pi** off the officer if you fail to notify him. I thought we said that is just an urban rumor. Anyone? If not true, someone call in and set the record straight, please, before 50 more cops hear this and think it is true.
    Not only is this not the case, it's not even being explained correctly.

    You shall inform the officer, and display upon request, that you have a PERMIT. There is nothing in the law (that I know of - and I've looked) that talks about informing you are ARMED. The officer can REQUEST such information along with things like 'where are you going?', or 'what did you have for lunch?' but it's not a requirement (though that might not be made clear).

    The statute also says that if you are not carrying that day you do not have to notify upon demand that you have a permit or ANYTHING ELSE (other than proof of insurance, VA-Driver's License and Owner's permit). Now, how you get around this without AGGRAVATING the nice officer who will undoubtedly start going off about your FIREARM, armed or not, is not clear.

    If you decide to go there, I'd suggest something like 'Officer I understand Va law is that if you are not carrying a firearm on your person you are not required to produce a permit, (further and if you are open carrying you are not required to produce a permit), is that correct?'. Of course run your audio and/or video recorder at this time.

    BUT, read it carefully. It talks only about picture ID and CHP (Concealed Handgun Permit) NOT about the firearm.

    HTH
    Last edited by Maverick9; 12-30-2014 at 09:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Most "pro-2nd" organizations say or do things to make them seem like they are pro-cop. Here's one example.

    And yes, it makes them look less "pro-2nd".

    And yes, it does make them less "pro-2nd".

    They all want to say "we support cops" ... why? Beats me.
    Because saying "We support thugs, gangs and drug dealers " would make them look as foolish as you.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Not only is this not the case, it's not even being explained correctly.

    You shall inform the officer, and display upon request, that you have a PERMIT. There is nothing in the law (that I know of - and I've looked) that talks about informing you are ARMED. The officer can REQUEST such information along with things like 'where are you going?', or 'what did you have for lunch?' but it's not a requirement (though that might not be made clear).
    But you are only required to display your CHP when the officer asks to see it if you are in fact carrying concealed. I've had a few conversations about that with cops. Those conversations usually end when I inviote them to cite me for not displaying my CHP. The only excep[tion to this that I am aware of is when visiting the General Assembly Building, where actual physical possession of a valid CHP (pretty much any state's version has been the practice to date) is a requirement of being allowed to go armed inside the building.

    The statute also says that if you are not carrying that day you do not have to notify upon demand that you have a permit or ANYTHING ELSE (other than proof of insurance, VA-Driver's License and Owner's permit). Now, how you get around this without AGGRAVATING the nice officer who will undoubtedly start going off about your FIREARM, armed or not, is not clear.
    What is an "owner's permit"? On the public roads they can ask to see DL, registration, proof of insurance.

    If you decide to go there, I'd suggest something like 'Officer I understand Va law is that if you are not carrying a firearm on your person you are not required to produce a permit, (further and if you are open carrying you are not required to produce a permit), is that correct?'. Of course run your audio and/or video recorder at this time.

    BUT, read it carefully. It talks only about picture ID and CHP (Concealed Handgun Permit) NOT about the firearm.

    HTH
    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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  13. #13
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    What is an "owner's permit"? On the public roads they can ask to see DL, registration, proof of insurance.

    stay safe.
    I meant registration, obviously but the brain was typing faster than the fingers.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post

    The statute also says that if you are not carrying that day you do not have to notify upon demand that you have a permit ........
    Ok, I'll bite. Where does the statute say that?
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Ok, I'll bite. Where does the statute say that?
    Snap!


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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Ok, I'll bite. Where does the statute say that?
    Third paragraph. I'm paraphrasing.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Third paragraph. I'm paraphrasing.
    Well, here's the statute...which words are you paraphrasing?

    § 18.2-308.01. Carrying a concealed handgun with a permit.

    A. The prohibition against carrying a concealed handgun in clause (i) of subsection A of § 18.2-308 shall not apply to a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this article. The person issued the permit shall have such permit on his person at all times during which he is carrying a concealed handgun and shall display the permit and a photo identification issued by a government agency of the Commonwealth or by the U.S. Department of Defense or U.S. State Department (passport) upon demand by a law-enforcement officer. A person to whom a nonresident permit is issued shall have such permit on his person at all times when he is carrying a concealed handgun in the Commonwealth and shall display the permit on demand by a law-enforcement officer. A person whose permit is extended due to deployment shall carry with him and display, upon request of a law-enforcement officer, a copy of the documents required by subsection B of § 18.2-308.010.

    B. Failure to display the permit and a photo identification upon demand by a law-enforcement officer shall be punishable by a $25 civil penalty, which shall be paid into the state treasury. Any attorney for the Commonwealth of the county or city in which the alleged violation occurred may bring an action to recover the civil penalty. A court may waive such penalty upon presentation to the court of a valid permit and a government-issued photo identification. Any law-enforcement officer may issue a summons for the civil violation of failure to display the concealed handgun permit and photo identification upon demand.

    C. The granting of a concealed handgun permit pursuant to this article shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.


    So, since "paraphrasing" is defined as "a restatement of a text or passage giving the meaning in another form". I think that you mean you are interpreting, rather than paraphrasing.

    I'm not trying to break your stones....there is a point to all of this. I agree with you; you do not have to notify/show a permit if you aren't carrying. My point is that we have to be very careful about saying "the statute says".....because that's is a good example of where much of the misinformation on statutes originates.
    Last edited by ProShooter; 12-31-2014 at 11:23 AM.
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Well, here's the statute...which words are you paraphrasing?
    Guess I meant 'line 3':

    The person issued the permit shall have such permit on his person at all times during which (*)he is carrying a concealed handgun
    After all you can't produce it if you are not, when unarmed, required to carry it. But to be fair it doesn't cite the negative, namely 'a person issued a permit shall not have the permit on his person at all times when NOT carrying a CH'. So you are correct. Thanks for finding the relevant verbiage.

    (*)Note: Evidently the statue does not apply to females.

  19. #19
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Guess I meant 'line 3':



    After all you can't produce it if you are not, when unarmed, required to carry it. But to be fair it doesn't cite the negative, namely 'a person issued a permit shall not have the permit on his person at all times when NOT carrying a CH'. So you are correct. Thanks for finding the relevant verbiage.

    (*)Note: Evidently the statue does not apply to females.
    Depends on the female I suppose

  20. #20
    Regular Member Old Virginia Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    VCDL President Philip Van Cleave did encourage people to hand the CHP to the officer at the same time you present your license, which seems gracious, until I contemplated maybe this is how we get these stupid expectations started? Maybe because some of us go "above and beyond" in being gracious citizens, next thing the cops start demanding it, and spouting it off as "the law." Hmmmmm? Maybe we are our own worst enemy of freedom?
    So, how about this question? Isn't it possible we do things like this to be nice, and eventually and ultimately it causes us to be more under the thumb of LE?
    VCDL, Army Vet, Virginia Native

    Hey, Libtards, it's the "Bill of Rights," not the "Bill of Needs" . . . . .

    If the 2A does not apply to modern weapons, then the 1A does not apply to modern communications like the Internet! How do you like them apples!?

  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Virginia Joe View Post
    So, how about this question? Isn't it possible we do things like this to be nice, and eventually and ultimately it causes us to be more under the thumb of LE?
    The answer is yes Joe.
    When they say if you have nothing to hide why not cooperate. ..just answer...because I don't have to.

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    I believe Peter and Joe are correct on this…,

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    The answer is yes Joe.
    When they say if you have nothing to hide why not cooperate. ..just answer...because I don't have to.
    I also believe that whenever you are approached by a LEO, and you hear them say something to the effect of MY county, MY highway, MY street, MY whatever, the encounter is not going to end well for you, it then becomes a matter of "damage control", and the less you say and do, will be the best you can say or do, excluding audio/video recordings of course.

    sidestreet

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    we are not equal, we will never be equal, but we must be relentless.

    p.s. It was great to finally meet you OVJ, at The Skid's pig picking'! It was a fine one, wasn't it?

  23. #23
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    Any time I have occasion to speak to law enforcement officers who seem curious about such things, my standard response is, "I prefer not to talk about such things." Bill Clinton's clever turn of phrase, "don't ask, don't tell" applies. Whenever the conversation turns to ownership, possession, or use of firearms, keep in mind the five fingers of your right hand. Look at those fingers and consider that the five fingers represent five consonants: "K Y B M S". (Keep Your Big Mouth Shut). If threatened with or placed under arrest, the only thing you should say is, "I want my lawyer." Keep in mind that no one has to advise you of your rights unless and until you be placed in full custodial arrest, so the usual practice is to interrogate "suspects" before putting them in handcuffs. KYBMS.

    If a LEO demands, note I said, "demands", to see your CHP certificate (the permission itself is merely a license, which is by definition intangible - the card is evidence of permission), that's the time you have to display the card and in no other situation. I use my U.S. Passport as the required government issued picture I.D., by the way, unless the cop already has my O.L. because it's a traffic stop. (I don't travel, so I really got the passport so as to get into the U.S. District Courthouses.) If the cop has to ask, or make some expression about what he "needs", that can safely be ignored. Don't let them use the politeness your mom taught you against you - police interaction is not a social call, no matter how sociable they appear to (and may really) be. They would not be talking to you unless The State was considering whether you're a Bad Guy who needs to be punished.

    KYBMS. Here endeth the lesson.
    Last edited by user; 01-14-2015 at 03:53 PM.
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