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Thread: Are all meetings (committee etc) of the VA leg. required to me open meetings?

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    Are all meetings (committee etc) of the VA leg. required to me open meetings?

    Grape thought that this should be in a new thread ....


    In VA, the constitution does not state that meetings of the legislature be open to the public.

    The FOIA Act of the legislature also might not apply to the legislature due to separation of powers.

    And caucuses is another aspect of how legislators hide meetings.

    In Colorado, their court ruled that caucuses cannot be used to hide meetings...see Cole v. The STATE of Colorado, Mary Estill Buchanan, Secretary of the State of Colorado, and J.D. MacFarlane, Attorney General of the State of Colorado, Defendants-Appellees, 673 P.2d 345 (1983)....but in CO they have in their constitution that debates are open to the public whereas VA does not have this type of a provision.

    I have found that discovery of secret meetings can be done several different ways. The quickest is to simply ask for legislators' outlook/google calenders. The second, more thorough but much slower is to ask for emails.

    Just bringing this up because in my state, gun laws are made/decided behind closed doors.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Before I respond to this, David decided to PM me this little piece of information which is incorrect as usual. My response unfortunately would be a violation of board rules to post. (actually it's a violation to have sent it at all) He's welcome to post it though.
    Bottom line, I'm not going to get in a ******* match with a troll on or off line but I will correct his usual manure.

    He is right in that not all meetings need be in public. As long as there is NOT a quorum or one of the cited exceptions, they can have all the planning sessions and get together they want...and yes, there is a lot of behind the scenes law planned that way.

    BUT....this is Virginia, not Kennycut or God forbid Colorado, and Virginia law applies.

    So here is VIRGINIA LAW, David. The second cite deals with the General Assembly:

    2.2-3707. Meetings to be public; notice of meetings; recordings; minutes.

    A. All meetings of public bodies shall be open, except as provided in 2.2-3707.01 and 2.2-3711.

    B. No meeting shall be conducted through telephonic, video, electronic or other communication means where the members are not physically assembled to discuss or transact public business, except as provided in 2.2-3708, 2.2-3708.1 or as may be specifically provided in Title 54.1 for the summary suspension of professional licenses.

    C. Every public body shall give notice of the date, time, and location of its meetings by placing the notice in a prominent public location at which notices are regularly posted and in the office of the clerk of the public body, or in the case of a public body that has no clerk, in the office of the chief administrator. All state public bodies subject to the provisions of this chapter shall also post notice of their meetings on their websites and on the electronic calendar maintained by the Virginia Information Technologies Agency commonly known as the Commonwealth Calendar. Publication of meeting notices by electronic means by other public bodies shall be encouraged. The notice shall be posted at least three working days prior to the meeting. Notices for meetings of state public bodies on which there is at least one member appointed by the Governor shall state whether or not public comment will be received at the meeting and, if so, the approximate point during the meeting when public comment will be received.

    D. Notice, reasonable under the circumstance, of special or emergency meetings shall be given contemporaneously with the notice provided members of the public body conducting the meeting.

    E. Any person may annually file a written request for notification with a public body. The request shall include the requester's name, address, zip code, daytime telephone number, electronic mail address, if available, and organization, if any. The public body receiving such request shall provide notice of all meetings directly to each such person. Without objection by the person, the public body may provide electronic notice of all meetings in response to such requests.

    F. At least one copy of all agenda packets and, unless exempt, all materials furnished to members of a public body for a meeting shall be made available for public inspection at the same time such documents are furnished to the members of the public body.

    G. Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to prohibit the gathering or attendance of two or more members of a public body (i) at any place or function where no part of the purpose of such gathering or attendance is the discussion or transaction of any public business, and such gathering or attendance was not called or prearranged with any purpose of discussing or transacting any business of the public body or (ii) at a public forum, candidate appearance, or debate, the purpose of which is to inform the electorate and not to transact public business or to hold discussions relating to the transaction of public business, even though the performance of the members individually or collectively in the conduct of public business may be a topic of discussion or debate at such public meeting. The notice provisions of this chapter shall not apply to informal meetings or gatherings of the members of the General Assembly.

    H. Any person may photograph, film, record or otherwise reproduce any portion of a meeting required to be open. The public body conducting the meeting may adopt rules governing the placement and use of equipment necessary for broadcasting, photographing, filming or recording a meeting to prevent interference with the proceedings, but shall not prohibit or otherwise prevent any person from photographing, filming, recording, or otherwise reproducing any portion of a meeting required to be open. No public body shall conduct a meeting required to be open in any building or facility where such recording devices are prohibited.

    I. Minutes shall be recorded at all open meetings. However, minutes shall not be required to be taken at deliberations of (i) standing and other committees of the General Assembly; (ii) legislative interim study commissions and committees, including the Virginia Code Commission; (iii) study committees or commissions appointed by the Governor; or (iv) study commissions or study committees, or any other committees or subcommittees appointed by the governing bodies or school boards of counties, cities and towns, except where the membership of any such commission, committee or subcommittee includes a majority of the governing body of the county, city or town or school board.

    Minutes, including draft minutes, and all other records of open meetings, including audio or audio/visual records shall be deemed public records and subject to the provisions of this chapter.

    Minutes shall be in writing and shall include (i) the date, time, and location of the meeting; (ii) the members of the public body recorded as present and absent; and (iii) a summary of the discussion on matters proposed, deliberated or decided, and a record of any votes taken. In addition, for electronic communication meetings conducted in accordance with 2.2-3708, minutes of state public bodies shall include (a) the identity of the members of the public body at each remote location identified in the notice who participated in the meeting through electronic communications means, (b) the identity of the members of the public body who were physically assembled at the primary or central meeting location, and (c) the identity of the members of the public body who were not present at the locations identified in clauses (a) and (b), but who monitored such meeting through electronic communications means.

    (1968, c. 479, 2.1-343; 1973, c. 461; 1976, c. 467; 1977, c. 677; 1982, c. 333; 1989, c. 358; 1990, c. 538; 1993, c. 720; 1995, c. 562; 1999, cc. 696, 703, 726; 2000, c. 227; 2001, c. 844; 2004, cc. 730, 768; 2005, c. 352; 2007, c. 300; 2009, c. 628; 2010, c. 309.)

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    Now the exceptions:

    2.2-3707.01. Meetings of the General Assembly.
    A. Except as provided in subsection B, public access to any meeting of the General Assembly or a portion thereof shall be governed by rules established by the Joint Rules Committee and approved by a majority vote of each house at the next regular session of the General Assembly. At least 60 days before the adoption of such rules, the Joint Rules Committee shall (i) hold regional public hearings on such proposed rules and (ii) provide a copy of such proposed rules to the Virginia Freedom of Information Advisory Council.
    B. Floor sessions of either house of the General Assembly; meetings, including work sessions, of any standing or interim study committee of the General Assembly; meetings, including work sessions, of any subcommittee of such standing or interim study committee; and joint committees of conference of the General Assembly; or a quorum of any such committees or subcommittees, shall be open and governed by this chapter.
    C. Meetings of the respective political party caucuses of either house of the General Assembly, including meetings conducted by telephonic or other electronic communication means, without regard to (i) whether the General Assembly is in or out of regular or special session or (ii) whether such caucuses invite staff or guests to participate in their deliberations, shall not be deemed meetings for the purposes of this chapter.
    D. No regular, special, or reconvened session of the General Assembly held pursuant to Article IV, Section 6 of the Constitution of Virginia shall be conducted using electronic communication means pursuant 2.2-3708.
    (2004, c. 768; 2005, c. 352.)

    2.2-3711. Closed meetings authorized for certain limited purposes.
    A. Public bodies may hold closed meetings only for the following purposes:
    1. Discussion, consideration, or interviews of prospective candidates for employment; assignment, appointment, promotion, performance, demotion, salaries, disciplining, or resignation of specific public officers, appointees, or employees of any public body; and evaluation of performance of departments or schools of public institutions of higher education where such evaluation will necessarily involve discussion of the performance of specific individuals. Any teacher shall be permitted to be present during a closed meeting in which there is a discussion or consideration of a disciplinary matter that involves the teacher and some student and the student involved in the matter is present, provided the teacher makes a written request to be present to the presiding officer of the appropriate board.
    2. Discussion or consideration of admission or disciplinary matters or any other matters that would involve the disclosure of information contained in a scholastic record concerning any student of any Virginia public institution of higher education or any state school system. However, any such student, legal counsel and, if the student is a minor, the student's parents or legal guardians shall be permitted to be present during the taking of testimony or presentation of evidence at a closed meeting, if such student, parents, or guardians so request in writing and such request is submitted to the presiding officer of the appropriate board.
    3. Discussion or consideration of the acquisition of real property for a public purpose, or of the disposition of publicly held real property, where discussion in an open meeting would adversely affect the bargaining position or negotiating strategy of the public body.
    4. The protection of the privacy of individuals in personal matters not related to public business.
    5. Discussion concerning a prospective business or industry or the expansion of an existing business or industry where no previous announcement has been made of the business' or industry's interest in locating or expanding its facilities in the community.
    6. Discussion or consideration of the investment of public funds where competition or bargaining is involved, where, if made public initially, the financial interest of the governmental unit would be adversely affected.
    7. Consultation with legal counsel and briefings by staff members or consultants pertaining to actual or probable litigation, where such consultation or briefing in open meeting would adversely affect the negotiating or litigating posture of the public body; and consultation with legal counsel employed or retained by a public body regarding specific legal matters requiring the provision of legal advice by such counsel. For the purposes of this subdivision, "probable litigation" means litigation that has been specifically threatened or on which the public body or its legal counsel has a reasonable basis to believe will be commenced by or against a known party. Nothing in this subdivision shall be construed to permit the closure of a meeting merely because an attorney representing the public body is in attendance or is consulted on a matter.
    8. In the case of boards of visitors of public institutions of higher education, discussion or consideration of matters relating to gifts, bequests and fund-raising activities, and grants and contracts for services or work to be performed by such institution. However, the terms and conditions of any such gifts, bequests, grants, and contracts made by a foreign government, a foreign legal entity, or a foreign person and accepted by a public institution of higher education in Virginia shall be subject to public disclosure upon written request to the appropriate board of visitors. For the purpose of this subdivision, (i) "foreign government" means any government other than the United States government or the government of a state or a political subdivision thereof; (ii) "foreign legal entity" means any legal entity created under the laws of the United States or of any state thereof if a majority of the ownership of the stock of such legal entity is owned by foreign governments or foreign persons or if a majority of the membership of any such entity is composed of foreign persons or foreign legal entities, or any legal entity created under the laws of a foreign government; and (iii) "foreign person" means any individual who is not a citizen or national of the United States or a trust territory or protectorate thereof.
    9. In the case of the boards of trustees of the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts, the Virginia Museum of Natural History, the Jamestown-Yorktown Foundation, and The Science Museum of Virginia, discussion or consideration of matters relating to specific gifts, bequests, and grants.
    10. Discussion or consideration of honorary degrees or special awards.
    11. Discussion or consideration of tests, examinations, or other records excluded from this chapter pursuant to subdivision 4 of 2.2-3705.1.
    12. Discussion, consideration, or review by the appropriate House or Senate committees of possible disciplinary action against a member arising out of the possible inadequacy of the disclosure statement filed by the member, provided the member may request in writing that the committee meeting not be conducted in a closed meeting.
    13. Discussion of strategy with respect to the negotiation of a hazardous waste siting agreement or to consider the terms, conditions, and provisions of a hazardous waste siting agreement if the governing body in open meeting finds that an open meeting will have an adverse effect upon the negotiating position of the governing body or the establishment of the terms, conditions and provisions of the siting agreement, or both. All discussions with the applicant or its representatives may be conducted in a closed meeting.
    14. Discussion by the Governor and any economic advisory board reviewing forecasts of economic activity and estimating general and nongeneral fund revenues.
    15. Discussion or consideration of medical and mental health records excluded from this chapter pursuant to subdivision 1 of 2.2-3705.5.
    16. Deliberations of the Virginia Lottery Board in a licensing appeal action conducted pursuant to subsection D of 58.1-4007 regarding the denial or revocation of a license of a lottery sales agent; and discussion, consideration or review of Virginia Lottery matters related to proprietary lottery game information and studies or investigations exempted from disclosure under subdivision 6 of 2.2-3705.3 and subdivision 11 of 2.2-3705.7.
    17. Those portions of meetings by local government crime commissions where the identity of, or information tending to identify, individuals providing information about crimes or criminal activities under a promise of anonymity is discussed or disclosed.
    18. Those portions of meetings in which the Board of Corrections discusses or discloses the identity of, or information tending to identify, any prisoner who (i) provides information about crimes or criminal activities, (ii) renders assistance in preventing the escape of another prisoner or in the apprehension of an escaped prisoner, or (iii) voluntarily or at the instance of a prison official renders other extraordinary services, the disclosure of which is likely to jeopardize the prisoner's life or safety.
    19. Discussion of plans to protect public safety as it relates to terrorist activity and briefings by staff members, legal counsel, or law-enforcement or emergency service officials concerning actions taken to respond to such activity or a related threat to public safety; or discussion of reports or plans related to the security of any governmental facility, building or structure, or the safety of persons using such facility, building or structure.
    20. Discussion by the Board of the Virginia Retirement System, acting pursuant to 51.1-124.30, or of any local retirement system, acting pursuant to 51.1-803, or of the Rector and Visitors of the University of Virginia, acting pursuant to 23-76.1, or by the Board of the Virginia College Savings Plan, acting pursuant to 23-38.80, regarding the acquisition, holding or disposition of a security or other ownership interest in an entity, where such security or ownership interest is not traded on a governmentally regulated securities exchange, to the extent that such discussion (i) concerns confidential analyses prepared for the Rector and Visitors of the University of Virginia, prepared by the retirement system or by the Virginia College Savings Plan or provided to the retirement system or the Virginia College Savings Plan under a promise of confidentiality, of the future value of such ownership interest or the future financial performance of the entity, and (ii) would have an adverse effect on the value of the investment to be acquired, held or disposed of by the retirement system, the Rector and Visitors of the University of Virginia, or the Virginia College Savings Plan. Nothing in this subdivision shall be construed to prevent the disclosure of information relating to the identity of any investment held, the amount invested or the present value of such investment.
    21. Those portions of meetings in which individual child death cases are discussed by the State Child Fatality Review team established pursuant to 32.1-283.1, and those portions of meetings in which individual child death cases are discussed by a regional or local child fatality review team established pursuant to 32.1-283.2, and those portions of meetings in which individual death cases are discussed by family violence fatality review teams established pursuant to 32.1-283.3.
    22. Those portions of meetings of the University of Virginia Board of Visitors or the Eastern Virginia Medical School Board of Visitors, as the case may be, and those portions of meetings of any persons to whom management responsibilities for the University of Virginia Medical Center or Eastern Virginia Medical School, as the case may be, have been delegated, in which there is discussed proprietary, business-related information pertaining to the operations of the University of Virginia Medical Center or Eastern Virginia Medical School, as the case may be, including business development or marketing strategies and activities with existing or future joint venturers, partners, or other parties with whom the University of Virginia Medical Center or Eastern Virginia Medical School, as the case may be, has formed, or forms, any arrangement for the delivery of health care, if disclosure of such information would adversely affect the competitive position of the Medical Center or Eastern Virginia Medical School, as the case may be.
    23. In the case of the Virginia Commonwealth University Health System Authority, discussion or consideration of any of the following: the acquisition or disposition of real or personal property where disclosure would adversely affect the bargaining position or negotiating strategy of the Authority; operational plans that could affect the value of such property, real or personal, owned or desirable for ownership by the Authority; matters relating to gifts, bequests and fund-raising activities; grants and contracts for services or work to be performed by the Authority; marketing or operational strategies where disclosure of such strategies would adversely affect the competitive position of the Authority; members of its medical and teaching staffs and qualifications for appointments thereto; and qualifications or evaluations of other employees.
    24. Those portions of the meetings of the Health Practitioners' Monitoring Program Committee within the Department of Health Professions to the extent such discussions identify any practitioner who may be, or who actually is, impaired pursuant to Chapter 25.1 ( 54.1-2515 et seq.) of Title 54.1.
    25. Meetings or portions of meetings of the Board of the Virginia College Savings Plan wherein personal information, as defined in 2.2-3801, which has been provided to the Board or its employees by or on behalf of individuals who have requested information about, applied for, or entered into prepaid tuition contracts or savings trust account agreements pursuant to Chapter 4.9 ( 23-38.75 et seq.) of Title 23 is discussed.
    26. Discussion or consideration, by the Wireless Carrier E-911 Cost Recovery Subcommittee created pursuant to 56-484.15, of trade secrets, as defined in the Uniform Trade Secrets Act (59.1-336 et seq.), submitted by CMRS providers as defined in 56-484.12, related to the provision of wireless E-911 service.
    27. Those portions of disciplinary proceedings by any regulatory board within the Department of Professional and Occupational Regulation, Department of Health Professions, or the Board of Accountancy conducted pursuant to 2.2-4019 or 2.2-4020 during which the board deliberates to reach a decision or meetings of health regulatory boards or conference committees of such boards to consider settlement proposals in pending disciplinary actions or modifications to previously issued board orders as requested by either of the parties.
    28. Discussion or consideration of records excluded from this chapter pursuant to subdivision 11 of 2.2-3705.6 by a responsible public entity or an affected locality or public entity, as those terms are defined in 33.2-1800, or any independent review panel appointed to review information and advise the responsible public entity concerning such records.
    29. Discussion of the award of a public contract involving the expenditure of public funds, including interviews of bidders or offerors, and discussion of the terms or scope of such contract, where discussion in an open session would adversely affect the bargaining position or negotiating strategy of the public body.
    30. Discussion or consideration of grant or loan application records excluded from this chapter pursuant to subdivision 17 of 2.2-3705.6 by (i) the Commonwealth Health Research Board or (ii) the Innovation and Entrepreneurship Investment Authority or the Research and Technology Investment Advisory Committee appointed to advise the Innovation and Entrepreneurship Investment Authority.
    31. Discussion or consideration by the Commitment Review Committee of records excluded from this chapter pursuant to subdivision 9 of 2.2-3705.2 relating to individuals subject to commitment as sexually violent predators under Chapter 9 ( 37.2-900 et seq.) of Title 37.2.
    32. [Expired.]
    33. Discussion or consideration of confidential proprietary records and trade secrets excluded from this chapter pursuant to subdivision 18 of 2.2-3705.6.
    34. Discussion or consideration by a local authority created in accordance with the Virginia Wireless Service Authorities Act ( 15.2-5431.1 et seq.) of confidential proprietary records and trade secrets excluded from this chapter pursuant to subdivision 19 of 2.2-3705.6.
    35. Discussion or consideration by the State Board of Elections or local electoral boards of voting security matters made confidential pursuant to 24.2-625.1.
    36. Discussion or consideration by the Forensic Science Board or the Scientific Advisory Committee created pursuant to Article 2 ( 9.1-1109 et seq.) of Chapter 11 of Title 9.1 of records excluded from this chapter pursuant to subdivision A 2 a of 2.2-3706.
    37. Discussion or consideration by the Brown v. Board of Education Scholarship Program Awards Committee of records or confidential matters excluded from this chapter pursuant to subdivision 3 of 2.2-3705.4, and meetings of the Committee to deliberate concerning the annual maximum scholarship award, review and consider scholarship applications and requests for scholarship award renewal, and cancel, rescind, or recover scholarship awards.
    38. Discussion or consideration by the Virginia Port Authority of records excluded from this chapter pursuant to subdivision 1 of 2.2-3705.6.
    39. Discussion or consideration by the Board of Trustees of the Virginia Retirement System acting pursuant to 51.1-124.30, by the Investment Advisory Committee appointed pursuant to 51.1-124.26, by any local retirement system, acting pursuant to 51.1-803, by the Board of the Virginia College Savings Plan acting pursuant to 23-38.80, or by the Virginia College Savings Plan's Investment Advisory Committee appointed pursuant to 23-38.79:1 of records excluded from this chapter pursuant to subdivision 25 of 2.2-3705.7.
    40. Discussion or consideration of records excluded from this chapter pursuant to subdivision 3 of 2.2-3705.6.
    41. Discussion or consideration by the Board of Education of records relating to the denial, suspension, or revocation of teacher licenses excluded from this chapter pursuant to subdivision 12 of 2.2-3705.3.
    42. Those portions of meetings of the Virginia Military Advisory Council or any commission created by executive order for the purpose of studying and making recommendations regarding preventing closure or realignment of federal military and national security installations and facilities located in Virginia and relocation of such facilities to Virginia, or a local or regional military affairs organization appointed by a local governing body, during which there is discussion of records excluded from this chapter pursuant to subdivision 12 of 2.2-3705.2.
    43. Discussion or consideration by the Board of Trustees of the Veterans Services Foundation of records excluded from this chapter pursuant to subdivision 29 of 2.2-3705.7.
    44. Discussion or consideration by the Virginia Tobacco Indemnification and Community Revitalization Commission of records excluded from this chapter pursuant to subdivision 23 of 2.2-3705.6.
    45. Discussion or consideration by the board of directors of the Commercial Space Flight Authority of records excluded from this chapter pursuant to subdivision 24 of 2.2-3705.6.
    B. No resolution, ordinance, rule, contract, regulation or motion adopted, passed or agreed to in a closed meeting shall become effective unless the public body, following the meeting, reconvenes in open meeting and takes a vote of the membership on such resolution, ordinance, rule, contract, regulation, or motion that shall have its substance reasonably identified in the open meeting.
    C. Public officers improperly selected due to the failure of the public body to comply with the other provisions of this section shall be de facto officers and, as such, their official actions are valid until they obtain notice of the legal defect in their election.
    D. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prevent the holding of conferences between two or more public bodies, or their representatives, but these conferences shall be subject to the same procedures for holding closed meetings as are applicable to any other public body.
    E. This section shall not be construed to (i) require the disclosure of any contract between the Department of Health Professions and an impaired practitioner entered into pursuant to Chapter 25.1 ( 54.1-2515 et seq.) of Title 54.1 or (ii) require the board of directors of any authority created pursuant to the Industrial Development and Revenue Bond Act ( 15.2-4900 et seq.), or any public body empowered to issue industrial revenue bonds by general or special law, to identify a business or industry to which subdivision A 5 applies. However, such business or industry shall be identified as a matter of public record at least 30 days prior to the actual date of the board's authorization of the sale or issuance of such bonds.
    (1968, c. 479, 2.1-344; 1970, c. 456; 1973, c. 461; 1974, c. 332; 1976, cc. 467, 709; 1979, cc. 369, 684; 1980, cc. 221, 475, 476, 754; 1981, cc. 35, 471; 1982, cc. 497, 516; 1984, cc. 473, 513; 1985, c. 277; 1988, c. 891; 1989, cc. 56, 358, 478; 1990, cc. 435, 538; 1991, c. 708; 1992, c. 444; 1993, cc. 270, 499; 1995, c. 499; 1996, cc. 855, 862, 902, 905, 1046; 1997, cc. 439,641, 785, 861; 1999, cc. 485, 518, 703, 726, 849, 867, 868; 2000, cc. 382, 400, 720, 1064; 2001, cc. 231,844; 2002, cc. 87, 393, 455, 478, 499, 655, 715, 830; 2003, cc. 274, 291, 332, 618, 703; 2004, cc. 398,690, 770; 2005, cc. 258, 411, 568; 2006, cc. 430, 499, 518, 560; 2007, cc. 133, 374, 566, 739; 2008, cc.626, 633, 668, 721, 743; 2009, cc. 223, 325, 472, 765, 810, 827, 845; 2010, cc. 310, 630, 808; 2011, cc.89, 111, 147, 536, 541, 816, 874; 2012, cc. 476, 507, 803, 835; 2013, cc. 571, 580, 695; 2014, c. 225.)
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-30-2014 at 07:18 PM.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    But ... But ... But that's not how things are in Connecticut! It only counts if it's done the way things are done in Connecticut! You must have been at a committee meeting or something, which would explain why you missed that memo.

    January 19th is drawing closer. david has not yet confirmed tat he will accept te offer of fre trasportation, room, and board to come down for Lobby Day and instruct the General Assembly on how things are supposed to be done.

    david, we need you! We want you! Please come down and teach us how thibgs are supposed to be done!

    "No 'stay safe' for you!" [/soup nazi voice]
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    The statues will/may not not be applicable or enforceable to the legislature due to separation of powers AND their immunity noted in the constitution

    VA constitution, immunity, for example:

    Section 9. Immunity of legislators.

    Members of the General Assembly shall, in all cases except treason, felony, or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during the sessions of their respective houses; and for any speech or debate in either house shall not be questioned in any other place. They shall not be subject to arrest under any civil process during the sessions of the General Assembly, or during the fifteen days before the beginning or after the ending of any session.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 12-30-2014 at 08:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Before I respond to this, David decided to PM me this little piece of information which is incorrect as usual. My response unfortunately would be a violation of board rules to post. (actually it's a violation to have sent it at all) He's welcome to post it though.
    Bottom line, I'm not going to get in a ******* match with a troll on or off line but I will correct his usual manure.


    He [davidmcbeth] is right in that not all meetings need be in public. As long as there is NOT a quorum or one of the cited exceptions, they can have all the planning sessions and get together they want...and yes, there is a lot of behind the scenes law planned that way.

    My whole point of this thread was to investigate if members of the VA legislature can meet behind closed doors, keep out members of the public when they debate bills and create laws, make their back room deals, and screw over the citizens of not only VA but anyone who travels through VA.

    This is, of course, counter to a free society.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-30-2014 at 11:50 PM. Reason: Rule #19 violation - edited extreme oversized font

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    But ... But ... But that's not how things are in Connecticut! It only counts if it's done the way things are done in Connecticut! You must have been at a committee meeting or something, which would explain why you missed that memo.

    January 19th is drawing closer. david has not yet confirmed tat he will accept te offer of fre trasportation, room, and board to come down for Lobby Day and instruct the General Assembly on how things are supposed to be done.

    david, we need you! We want you! Please come down and teach us how thibgs are supposed to be done!

    "No 'stay safe' for you!" [/soup nazi voice]
    Another post that is simply a personal attack. I can see how you picked your screen name.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 12-30-2014 at 08:58 PM.

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Another post that is simply a personal attack. I can see how you picked your screen name.
    Well, yes, your coment might be considered a person attack. However, since you have never heard/read the story of how I got the nickname I will put it down to ignorance.

    Still no 'stay safe' for you! [/soup nazi voice]
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    My whole point of this thread was to investigate if members of the VA legislature can meet behind closed doors,
    Mpbody ever said they could not. Bet it is the same way up there in Connecticut.

    keep out members of the public when they debate bills
    Not when they are doing that. Difference between a "planning session" and a debate on the merits.

    and create laws,
    Nope! Voting needs to be open to the public.

    make their back room deals, and screw over the citizens of not only VA but anyone who travels through VA.
    Just like they do in Connecticut.

    [/quote]This is, of course, counter to a free society.[/QUOTE]

    We've seen how "free" all y'all up there in Connecticut are. Your comment is but a matter of dregree in the pot calling the kettle black.

    BTW, did you know you can make fine print even smaller than Size 1?

    Still no 'stay safe' for you! [/soup nazi voice]
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Well, yes, your coment might be considered a person attack. However, since you have never heard/read the story of how I got the nickname I will put it down to ignorance.

    Still no 'stay safe' for you! [/soup nazi voice]
    Sonny, if you think I or other members want to hear the story of how you got your nickname you are sadly mistaken.

    It speaks for itself. People don't know? Google "skidmark" and you'll learn why.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 12-30-2014 at 09:24 PM.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    The statues will/may not not be applicable or enforceable to the legislature due to separation of powers AND their immunity noted in the constitution

    VA constitution, immunity, for example:

    Section 9. Immunity of legislators.

    Members of the General Assembly shall, in all cases except treason, felony, or breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during the sessions of their respective houses; and for any speech or debate in either house shall not be questioned in any other place. They shall not be subject to arrest under any civil process during the sessions of the General Assembly, or during the fifteen days before the beginning or after the ending of any session.
    Each house of the Virginia General Assembly has its own set of Rules wherein the means and method for challenging the behavior of any member or the house as a whole. It only takes one member of thehouse to call into question the ethical behavior of the whole respective house.

    Why don't you take up the offer of free transportation, room, and board to come down on January 19th and see how things actually happen here?
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Grape thought that this should be in a new thread ....

    --snipped--
    My primary point was the comment originally posted was off-topic for the thread in which it then appeared. It was asked and answered as to whether I was stifling any discussion on the matter. I was not, but cautioned that such be related to OC or RKBA - that connection is tenuously made in that gun related laws are generated/discussed by our General Assembly.

    I also see no personal insult in inviting you to Virginia to see our GA in action and what we do to attempt to protect and further the RKBA and OC.

    I myself would jump at the chance to have an all expenses paid trip to another state whereby I could view their legislative process and meet fellow gunnies at the same time - only thing that might deter me would be if the destination were a totally anti-state.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-31-2014 at 12:05 AM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Sonny, if you think I or other members want to hear the story of how you got your nickname you are sadly mistaken.

    It speaks for itself. People don't know? Google "skidmark" and you'll learn why.
    Nope! It has nothing to do with speeding, or racing. Nor does it have anything to do with a GI Joe action figure. The scatalogical reference is a miss by more than a mile.

    Do you want to try again? (By the way, I'm pointing my finger at you when I type this. Reading that may cause you to be the most frightened you have ever been in your life.*)



    * - That can't be an "in joke" since it's grown to be an urban legend.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Nope! It has nothing to do with speeding, or racing. Nor does it have anything to do with a GI Joe action figure. The scatalogical reference is a miss by more than a mile.

    Do you want to try again? (By the way, I'm pointing my finger at you when I type this. Reading that may cause you to be the most frightened you have ever been in your life.*)



    * - That can't be an "in joke" since it's grown to be an urban legend.
    Better watch that FINGER, it might be loaded. And we KNOW he could never handle it.

    ;>)
    Last edited by va_tazdad; 12-31-2014 at 09:43 AM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Nope! It has nothing to do with speeding, or racing. Nor does it have anything to do with a GI Joe action figure. The scatalogical reference is a miss by more than a mile.

    Do you want to try again? (By the way, I'm pointing my finger at you when I type this. Reading that may cause you to be the most frightened you have ever been in your life.*)



    * - That can't be an "in joke" since it's grown to be an urban legend.
    can't be an urban legend, isn't he a country boy?
    Last edited by scouser; 12-31-2014 at 10:37 AM.

  15. #15
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Sonny, if you think I or other members want to hear the story of how you got your nickname you are sadly mistaken.

    It speaks for itself. People don't know? Google "skidmark" and you'll learn why.
    That's good..."Sonny"

    Actually Davy....Most here know how he got the name. You must have missed it because of beddy bye time!
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-31-2014 at 10:55 AM.

  16. #16
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Skidmarks

    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Sonny, if you think I or other members want to hear the story of how you got your nickname you are sadly mistaken.

    It speaks for itself. People don't know? Google "skidmark" and you'll learn why.
    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    That's good..."Sonny"

    Actually Davy....Most here know how he got the name. You must have missed it because of beddy bye time!
    Yep, has nothing to with some people's assumptions/knee jerk insults conclusions.



    Hint: it is a mental reaction.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Wrong picture, Grapeshot.

    More like this before they saw me coming: Click image for larger version. 

Name:	polished-concrete-04.jpg 
Views:	80 
Size:	74.2 KB 
ID:	12305

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Yep, has nothing to with some people's assumptions/knee jerk insults conclusions.



    Hint: it is a mental reaction.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Wrong picture, Grapeshot.

    More like this before they saw me coming: Click image for larger version. 

Name:	polished-concrete-04.jpg 
Views:	80 
Size:	74.2 KB 
ID:	12305

    stay safe.
    I did say that it had "nothing to with some people's assumptions/knee jerk conclusions.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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