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Thread: Jackson Miller would make 'Spooked by a LEO' legal (HB1453)

  1. #1
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Jackson Miller would make 'Spooked by a LEO' legal (HB1453)

    Delegate Miller would make it legal for LEOs and PI's to engage in stalking and harassment:

    HB 1453 Stalking; penalty.

    The Summary does not show it; read the actual italic text:
    B. Any person, except a law-enforcement officer, as defined in 9.1-101, and acting in the performance of his official duties, and a registered private investigator, as defined in 9.1-138, who is regulated in accordance with 9.1-139 and acting in the course of his legitimate business, who on more than one occasion engages in conduct directed at another person with the intent to coerce, intimidate, or harass, or when he knows or reasonably should know that the conduct coerces, intimidates, or harasses, that other person or that other person's family or household member is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    So, it's okay for The Only Ones to coerce, intimidate, or harass?

    Huh?

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Yes, same here with our "brandishing law." It is illegal to threaten with a firearm when not in necessary self-defense. Cops are specifically excluded and are not required to even pretend that pointing guns at people is in necessary defense.

    I keep hearing about a "higher" standard, when the reality is that the actual laws continue to give them a LOWER standard. Never mind the lack of enforcement of the laws against cops, of course.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    What legitimate reason would a cop or a private investigator have to "coerce, intimidate, or harass" anyone? Especially the latter?

    Yes, I have known cops and private investigators who attempt to coerce someone into giving up information, or intimidate them with dire consequences if they do not give up certain information.

    But to harass?

    "The Law Dictionary" says:
    Repeated conduct that is not wanted and is known to all parties as offensive. (emphasis added)

    YourDictionary says:
    Harassment is defined as chronically annoying or tormenting someone.

    uslegal.com says:
    Harassment is governed by state laws, which vary by state, but is generally defined as a course of conduct which annoys, threatens, intimidates, alarms, or puts a person in fear of their safety. Harassment is unwanted, unwelcomed and uninvited behavior that demeans, threatens or offends the victim and results in a hostile environment for the victim. (emphasis added)

    I could go on and on but you probably get the point by now.

    If the cops think I know something they want to know but am not divulging to them let them arrest me for obstruction of justice and we'll go discuss the matter in front of a judge. I'm willing to do 364 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes at the county's expense rather than tell them where Jimmy Hoffa's body is. Some people may have other things more important to do. (Just as long as they don't try to claim 5th Amendment privilege about being "made" to testify about how Granny rigged the apple pie contest at the county fair. Or whatever.)

    Private investigators? "I was never so afraid in my life, your honor."

    The problem is, this will probably need someone at the committee meeting to "discuss" it. I volunteer myself. Anybody else want to come?

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member IanB's Avatar
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    Careful here Gunnies... This thread may be seen as "cop bashing" as you are describing police as a generic mass and not a specific case or instance. The Only Ones might go on "Police One" (A fitting name for an Only Ones forum) and complain (again) about the mean spirited, anti-cop, pro deBlasio style comments from this forum. Please think about the fragile emotions and feelings of those poor manly Only Ones before you post here. We don't need any more censorship than we already have on OCDO.

    Now, everyone step in line and warmly embrace the legal intimidation and harassment you so richly deserve. After all, Mr. J. Miller is a police officer too, and he knows what's best for you and your community.

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Ian -

    You do know what "Kumbya" really means, don't you?

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    What legitimate reason would a cop or a private investigator have to "coerce, intimidate, or harass" anyone? Especially the latter?

    Yes, I have known cops and private investigators who attempt to coerce someone into giving up information, or intimidate them with dire consequences if they do not give up certain information.

    But to harass?

    "The Law Dictionary" says:
    Repeated conduct that is not wanted and is known to all parties as offensive. (emphasis added)

    YourDictionary says:
    Harassment is defined as chronically annoying or tormenting someone.

    uslegal.com says:
    Harassment is governed by state laws, which vary by state, but is generally defined as a course of conduct which annoys, threatens, intimidates, alarms, or puts a person in fear of their safety. Harassment is unwanted, unwelcome and uninvited behavior that demeans, threatens or offends the victim and results in a hostile environment for the victim. (emphasis added)

    I could go on and on but you probably get the point by now. ...

    stay safe.
    Is "repeated" defined as more than one asking of a question during the same contact, or the asking of that question during multiple contacts?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Is "repeated" defined as more than one asking of a question during the same contact, or the asking of that question during multiple contacts?
    Yes.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Well then, since a stalker/harasser is likely never "annoyed" by his behavior then any "crime" of stalking/harassing is now null and void...got it. A cop who intimidates a citizen is likely never annoyed by his intimidation...

    Too easy sometimes.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    That sounds ominous. All sorts of over-the-top behavior could fall under it. ETA: torture
    Last edited by Maverick9; 01-06-2015 at 09:43 AM.

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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    Delegate Miller would make it legal for LEOs and PI's to engage in stalking and harassment:

    HB 1453 Stalking; penalty.

    The Summary does not show it; read the actual italic text:


    So, it's okay for The Only Ones to coerce, intimidate, or harass?

    Huh?
    As the section B referred is already law and the HB 1453 only is adding a new section C,
    C. Any person who is convicted of a second offense of subsection A occurring within five years of a prior conviction of such an offense when the person was also convicted within the five-year period prior to the instant offense of a violation of (i) 18.2-51, 18.2-51.2, 18.2-51.6, 18.2-52, or 18.2-57 and the victim of that crime was the same person who is the victim of the stalking activity in the instant conviction, (ii) 18.2-57.2, or (iii) a protective order, is guilty of a Class 6 felony.
    then remarking sections C-G as D-H. There is no change in the exemption of Police and Private Investigators by HB 1453! While I am not crazy about the exemption it is not new.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I don't think that the legislators intended to write a law that made stalking legal for police officers. But that is what they did, whenever they did it. It would appear stalking your ex wife or ex girlfriend is legal, as long as they did it on duty. But we know this never happens, so we should not be worrying about it.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-06-2015 at 12:38 PM.
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I don't think that the legislators intended to write a law that made stalking legal for police officers. But that is what they did, whenever they did it. It would appear stalking your ex wife or ex girlfriend is legal, as long as they did it on duty. But we know this never happens, so we should not be worrying about it.
    Well, a new reason not to marry a LEO. Lends new meaning to 'til death do us part', huh?

  13. #13
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I don't think that the legislators intended to write a law that made stalking legal for police officers. But that is what they did, whenever they did it. It would appear stalking your ex wife or ex girlfriend is legal, as long as they did it on duty. But we know this never happens, so we should not be worrying about it.
    Yes, the original patron of the existing exemption did in fact intend to exempt. both cops and PI's.

    Delegate Morgan Griffith said so at Courts of Justice Committee. His wife, a commonwealth's attorney, wanted the exemption for cops; a constituent (a licensed PI) wanted the exemption for PI's.

    They knew what they were doing.

  14. #14
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    It would appear stalking your ex wife or ex girlfriend is legal, as long as they did it on duty.
    I don't think that "acting in the performance of his official duties" is the same as "as long as they did it on duty".

    TFred

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