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Thread: carry in parks

  1. #1
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    carry in parks

    Went to the dinner and had a very young CC. Instructed that was deterring say you could not open in a municipal park. Also that you could carry in an athletic facility. Can you star what is true and cite the law where it makes it clear.Thanks

    sorry about the wording and the spelling, i was using a pad and the dang thing wants to put words where they don't belong

    jest is, can you carry open in municipal parks? also what does it say about athletic fields? thanks. i can't remember the law number
    Last edited by papa bear; 01-02-2015 at 11:06 PM.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    Went to the dinner and had a very young CC. Instructed that was deterring say you could not open in a municipal park. Also that you could carry in an athletic facility. Can you star what is true and cite the law where it makes it clear.Thanks

    sorry about the wording and the spelling, i was using a pad and the dang thing wants to put words where they don't belong

    jest is, can you carry open in municipal parks? also what does it say about athletic fields? thanks. i can't remember the law number

    Section 14-409.40(b)

    Cities and counties may apply the authority they are given under certain specified state statutes to regulate or prohibit possession of firearms in, or on the grounds or in the parking areas of, publicly owned buildings, public parks, or recreation areas.
    http://smartgunlaws.org/local-author...orth-carolina/

    Whether any given muniipality has taken such action, one would have to check and see.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    14-409.40(f)
    14-415.23

    Municipalities may only enact ordinances about CC in their owned buildings and appurtenances. They may regulate CC in parks and athletic facilities only within the definitions and allowances by the state.

    Unless ordinances are enacted against OC, or any type of carry, then it is allowed. It seems most municipalities have ordinances against weapons (including firearms) in parks or recreation areas. Some, thankfully, seem to have neglected to act against OC when they made up their CC ordinances.

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Thanks GRAPE and BC.

    GRAPE yours does address the city make up their own rules but i noticed the law you cited was from 2011. though that is one of the questions that brought up the discussions. the city of Winston make the Salem lake anti carry, by declaring it an athletic field

    BC that is closer to the point i will scan the 14-415 to see what it says.

    he read the law last night, but it was from 2013, it they have made changes since then

    I think i hurt his little young feelings when i didn't take his word for it. he nevr could answer weather or not we could carry open. I guess he couldn't make money off that
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    Thanks GRAPE and BC.

    GRAPE yours does address the city make up their own rules but i noticed the law you cited was from 2011. though that is one of the questions that brought up the discussions. the city of Winston make the Salem lake anti carry, by declaring it an athletic field
    BC that is closer to the point i will scan the 14-415 to see what it says.

    he read the law last night, but it was from 2013, it they have made changes since then

    I think i hurt his little young feelings when i didn't take his word for it. he nevr could answer weather or not we could carry open. I guess he couldn't make money off that
    Call the W-S Parks and Recreation director and try to schedule the lake for an athletic event like a swim meet or kayaking class. Let us know what they say.

    The main change made was to clarify definitions of athletic facilities, and remove playgrounds from the list (don't give them the idea these are now athletic facilities).
    Last edited by bc.cruiser; 01-03-2015 at 10:55 PM.

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    Regular Member Vwfinatic273's Avatar
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    House bill 937

    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    Thanks GRAPE and BC.

    GRAPE yours does address the city make up their own rules but i noticed the law you cited was from 2011. though that is one of the questions that brought up the discussions. the city of Winston make the Salem lake anti carry, by declaring it an athletic field

    BC that is closer to the point i will scan the 14-415 to see what it says.

    he read the law last night, but it was from 2013, it they have made changes since then

    I think i hurt his little young feelings when i didn't take his word for it. he nevr could answer weather or not we could carry open. I guess he couldn't make money off that
    You all should look into this, it was passed in 2013 and went in effect. It was a pro-gun bill NC passed during the political attacks on second amendment. It also allows statewide uniform to laws so you don't go from one locale to another breaking a law unknowingly because there's is different. I have attached the link for you to read.


    http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2013/B...PDF/H937v5.pdf

  7. #7
    Regular Member Vwfinatic273's Avatar
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    Parks

    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    Thanks GRAPE and BC.

    GRAPE yours does address the city make up their own rules but i noticed the law you cited was from 2011. though that is one of the questions that brought up the discussions. the city of Winston make the Salem lake anti carry, by declaring it an athletic field

    BC that is closer to the point i will scan the 14-415 to see what it says.

    he read the law last night, but it was from 2013, it they have made changes since then

    I think i hurt his little young feelings when i didn't take his word for it. he nevr could answer weather or not we could carry open. I guess he couldn't make money off that
    These are excerpts from NC law which I also attached in regard to carry in parks. I also attached that link for the legislation.

    "(c1) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun on the grounds or waters of a park within the State Parks System as defined in G.S. 113-44.9."

    "(c3) As provided in G.S. 14-269.4(5), it shall be lawful for a person to carry any firearm openly, or to carry a concealed handgun with a concealed carry permit, at any State-owned rest area, at any State-owned rest stop along the highways, and at any State-owned hunting and fishing reservation."

    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...14-415.11.html

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    Regular Member Vwfinatic273's Avatar
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    Law vs. opinion

    I am the "young man" Papa Bear is referring to from the dinner. I am an open carrier and am all about exercising my rights and carrying as well as informing others on their rights to carry. Papa Bear was simply misinforming people at the dinner table the other evening telling them you can carry in schools, open carry in all local parks and that municipalities can pass whatever laws they want. He's trying to simplify a large discussion from that night into one topic of "carry in parks" on this forum. I, being an instructor and second amendment activist, had a lot of NC law (some of which I just posted) with me in the car, House Bill 937 is the one from 2013 I had Papa Bear mentioned. My girlfriend got it and I pointed out the parts of law that concluded his information was incorrect. What wasn't clearly stated was otherwise directed by definition in the legislation. I informed him that I'd rather have the law on my side than his opinion and others agreed while he was buried in his tablet at the table trying to find something to prove my law wrong. He informed me his opinion is right and nulls law. I didn't want anyone misinformed at dinner nor do I want anyone on here to be. I left it at that and then he said he'd put it on the forums so here we are...
    Last edited by Vwfinatic273; 01-04-2015 at 12:49 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vwfinatic273 View Post
    I am the "young man" Papa Bear is referring to from the dinner. I am an open carrier and am all about exercising my rights and carrying as well as informing others on their rights to carry. Papa Bear was simply misinforming people at the dinner table the other evening telling them you can carry in schools, open carry in all local parks and that municipalities can pass whatever laws they want. He's trying to simplify a large discussion from that night into one topic of "carry in parks" on this forum. I, being an instructor and second amendment activist, had a lot of NC law (some of which I just posted) with me in the car, House Bill 937 is the one from 2013 I had Papa Bear mentioned. My girlfriend got it and I pointed out the parts of law that concluded his information was incorrect. What wasn't clearly stated was otherwise directed by definition in the legislation. I informed him that I'd rather have the law on my side than his opinion and others agreed while he was buried in his tablet at the table trying to find something to prove my law wrong. He informed me his opinion is right and nulls law. I didn't want anyone misinformed at dinner nor do I want anyone on here to be. I left it at that and then he said he'd put it on the forums so here we are...
    Totally wrong. I just asked you question and you took the attitude that i was disagreeing with you. you took the attitude that you read me what you read and refused to answer the question. i never said it was my opinion and I did not dis agree with you you did not answer my question. I believe you took the childish remark of "well, you must be right then". but i would not expect anything else from a young'un. when young people take the attitued that they know everything they will crash one day. BTW how old are you 23, 24? Why did you put young man in dubs, you are a very young man

    are you ready to answer the question now? Are you allowed to carry open in a municipality park? are you allowed to carry in a athletic field?
    BTW you can carry in a school, if you have the principle or the school board's permission
    How do you think all those shooting clubs in Forsyth county does it

    sorry I had a computer malfunction. but don't take offense you are very young. Thanks for the cite I book marked it so hopefully i can find it again. still didn't see where you could OC or not
    Last edited by papa bear; 01-04-2015 at 10:47 PM.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  10. #10
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bc.cruiser View Post
    Call the W-S Parks and Recreation director and try to schedule the lake for an athletic event like a swim meet or kayaking class. Let us know what they say.

    The main change made was to clarify definitions of athletic facilities, and remove playgrounds from the list (don't give them the idea these are now athletic facilities).
    Sorry, BC if this is a repeat. this computer makes me so mad sometimes it makes me want to spit

    the issue is not the lake but the walking trail around it. it seems Winston/Forsyth had or has declare the trail a athletic field, which according to some version of the law you could not carry in. GRNC did have a suit against Winston for it. haven't heard what happened. I know one of the things we had petition for today was the locals using tricks to circumvent the laws

    Part of what VWF read did say something about green ways and walk ways.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    Sorry, BC if this is a repeat. this computer makes me so mad sometimes it makes me want to spit

    the issue is not the lake but the walking trail around it. it seems Winston/Forsyth had or has declare the trail a athletic field, which according to some version of the law you could not carry in. GRNC did have a suit against Winston for it. haven't heard what happened. I know one of the things we had petition for today was the locals using tricks to circumvent the laws

    Part of what VWF read did say something about green ways and walk ways.
    Per 14-415.23(f), greenways and walking trails are outside the authority of the municipality to regulate against CC.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Vwfinatic273's Avatar
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    Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    Totally wrong. I just asked you question and you took the attitude that i was disagreeing with you. you took the attitude that you read me what you read and refused to answer the question. i never said it was my opinion and I did not dis agree with you you did not answer my question. I believe you took the childish remark of "well, you must be right then". but i would not expect anything else from a young'un. when young people take the attitued that they know everything they will crash one day. BTW how old are you 23, 24? Why did you put young man in dubs, you are a very young man

    are you ready to answer the question now? Are you allowed to carry open in a municipality park? are you allowed to carry in a athletic field?
    BTW you can carry in a school, if you have the principle or the school board's permission
    How do you think all those shooting clubs in Forsyth county does it

    sorry I had a computer malfunction. but don't take offense you are very young. Thanks for the cite I book marked it so hopefully i can find it again. still didn't see where you could OC or not
    I did answer your question and read you the law simply because you continued to disagree and you did disagree for the record. After I read you the law you got quiet and buried your head into your tablet and I may be younger than you however I even know that that was poor table manners especially in a group setting. You are incorrect about my age however it is irrelevant to the conversation and isn't your business. Also, quotations (dubs) are taught in English classes as something used to quote or set off a direct phrase or speech (i.e. what you called me, "young man.") You may also see here:
    http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/marks/quotation

    In regards to open carry in a municipal park:

    * Again, per the law I read you at dinner and I'll quote (please remember quotation marks,) from NCGS 14-415.11 c(1) "Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun on the grounds or waters of a park within the State Parks System as defined in G.S. 113-44.9" Law clearly states you may carry CONCEALED handgun if you have the permit to carry, since the law specifically states concealed we may not open carry.

    * The law does state in NCGS 14-415.11 c(3) that you may open carry in certain state areas, although not in parks "As provided in G.S. 14-269.4(5), it shall be lawful for a person to carry any firearm openly, or to carry a concealed handgun with a concealed carry permit, at any State-owned rest area, at any State-owned rest stop along the highways, and at any State-owned hunting and fishing reservation."

    * Also, if you're still unsure NCGS 113-44.9 further defines the words referenced to in NCGS 14-415.11

    In regards to carry in athletic field:

    * You need to read House Bill 937 that I posted above it is another law I had at the dinner that you saw was from 2013. It talks about athletic fields and where it falls under recreational facility which like I said Friday is up to the municipality they may adopt ordinances. I was saying that HB 937 provides statewide uniformity so municipalities, cities, townships, villages and etc. can't pass laws or ordinances in regards to legal carry except for provided in what is defined under athletic field falling under recreational facility. I also read it to you so you could see that the state (awesome for us) made sure to define it very well so that the city couldn't deem just anything as a recreational facility. So the answer is different for each locale which is why I tried to make you understand the law, you have to check with each locale to know but they are different.

    In regards to carry in schools:

    * First you informed us that you carry in schools on occasion and conceal carry and that you have allegedly received permission from the principle. No where in the law is there a clause or exemption from criminal liability for having permission from a principle in the following law I reference to.

    * Shooting clubs don't carry per say in school they use firearms for ceremonial and instructional purposes, they aren't carrying guns holstered, open or concealed in the facility necessarily. What follows you can read at this link: http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/32344299...-gun-Laws.aspx The following is from page 24 of the NCDOJ Firearm Law Updated September of 2014;

    "The aforementioned prohibitions will not apply to:
    a. A weapon used solely for educational or school sanctioned ceremonial purposes, or
    used in a school approved program conducted under the supervision of an adult,
    whose supervision has been approved by the school authority"

    * You may not carry in schools however if you have a permit to carry you lock it in your car and you have to keep the car locked immediately upon entering or exiting. The following is from page 26 of the NCDOJ Firearm Law Update September of 2014;

    "i. A person who has a valid concealed handgun permit, or is exempt from obtaining a
    permit, who has a handgun in a closed compartment or container within the person’s
    locked vehicle or the handgun is in a locked container securely affixed to the person’s
    vehicle. This individual may unlock the vehicle to enter or exit the vehicle provided
    the firearm remains in the closed compartment at all times and the vehicle is locked
    immediately following the entrance or exit of the vehicle"

    I hope this answers your questions and that I have supplied you with enough references. If not you NEED to do some research of your own. I may be a young firearms instructor however I am very passionate about my rights to carry and day in and day out read books on the topic and laws. I have attended many NRA courses as well as North Carolina DOJ's legal course and keep in touch with Congress and Senate thus keeping me current on the laws so I can further my knowledge making me a responsible and safe firearm owner.
    Last edited by Vwfinatic273; 01-05-2015 at 10:38 PM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vwfinatic273 View Post
    I did answer your question and read you the law simply because you continued to disagree and you did disagree for the record. After I read you the law you got quiet and
    actually i got quiet after you had a tam trum and said, and made your childish remark. that is what your youth has to do with it

    you hated being questioned and would not let me read it when i asked to

    I think you are still very young with a huge ego. i have raised several young people and i know how you are

    Thanks for the cites, you really should look at the dates, and research weather they are relevant or not






    you can carry in a school. let me change this . with the permission of the owners, or controlling agents
    Last edited by papa bear; 01-06-2015 at 11:28 AM.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    SO you are saying you can't carry open at a rest stop??? I don't believe that is true. are you sure that is valid or did it get corrected??

    --snipped--
    "As provided in G.S. 14-269.4(5), it is lawful for any person to carry a firearm openly, or to carry a
    concealed handgun with a concealed carry permit, at any State-owned rest area, at any State-owned rest
    stop along the highways, and at any State-owned hunting and fishing reservation. N.C. Gen. Stat.

    14-415.11(c)."
    http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/32344299...-gun-Laws.aspx



    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Gentlemen, if you please.

    Vwfinatic273 and pappa bear - your personal recollections and what was intended is hardly good fodder for public discussion - goes to he said, I said. Think that is a conversation better handled privately. A cup of coffee and a smile might help smooth the water.

    No intent on my part to point my finger at anyone.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  16. #16
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Gentlemen, if you please.

    Vwfinatic273 and pappa bear - your personal recollections and what was intended is hardly good fodder for public discussion - goes to he said, I said. Think that is a conversation better handled privately. A cup of coffee and a smile might help smooth the water.

    No intent on my part to point my finger at anyone.
    You are right GRAPE, I should over look the boys youth. I know you can carry at rest stops. just a poor chance at humor. VWF if I have hurt your feelings, I do apologize for you feeling that way sorry still tying to be funny

    but still i have not gotten a decent answer. I diss agree with VWF'S interpretation "since we can canceal, we can not Open carry". could some one please point out the law that says we can not OPEN Carry. I have not found one but there are so many laws it is hard to find the right one.
    I give you my Opinion too, if it not against the law it is legal

    BTW VWF, since you don't have to have a permit to stow a gun in a car does that mean you specifically have to have a permit on school grounds or does the general law apply, where you don't have to have a permission slip. if you do have to have one on school grounds that law sucks
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Vwfinatic273's Avatar
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    Done

    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    You are right GRAPE, I should over look the boys youth. I know you can carry at rest stops. just a poor chance at humor. VWF if I have hurt your feelings, I do apologize for you feeling that way sorry still tying to be funny

    but still i have not gotten a decent answer. I diss agree with VWF'S interpretation "since we can canceal, we can not Open carry". could some one please point out the law that says we can not OPEN Carry. I have not found one but there are so many laws it is hard to find the right one.
    I give you my Opinion too, if it not against the law it is legal

    BTW VWF, since you don't have to have a permit to stow a gun in a car does that mean you specifically have to have a permit on school grounds or does the general law apply, where you don't have to have a permission slip. if you do have to have one on school grounds that law sucks
    Grapeshot, I appologize. I never meant for this to be on here, it was a private conversation at a open-carry dinner where we all open-carry however Papa Bear insisted after the dinner to post something on here and after seeing how he was falsely speaking about the situation as well as my self on here the way he was I felt inclined to at least respond on my behalf. Sorry that you were a casualty of indecent conversation and hope to have an intellectual conversation with you in the future on here! Happy New Year Grapeshot.

    Papa Bear, I am done wasting my time, I have a life to live and don't like getting online. You have obviously renounced reason and feel that you know me, speaking with you is like administering medicine to the deceased. You also continue to misperceive the whole situation in it's entirety so I'm not wasting my efforts any longer. You continue to change what was said and what you meant. You just need to read the law, I have read it to you and now provided it and explained key points a couple times on here now. You do what you want as you feel fit legal or not but when you're in court only the law will back you up.

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Sometimes the only way to give pause when there are two individuals who, while both passionate about RKBA and OC, are of differring opinions is to call a time out.

    Better to agree to disagree that to get into character references on either side.

    As there are only two registered user/members active on this thread and involved in said "discussion," I've decided to lock it for the benefit of all.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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