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Thread: ATF Rule 2015-1 home built weapons

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    ATF Rule 2015-1 home built weapons

    This is the new ATF letter.
    http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fil...unsmithing.pdf

    This explains it in english, not batfspeak.
    http://www.ammoland.com/2015/01/atf-...#axzz3O2ekW1IU

    The New Year has brought new action from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), who published ATF Rul. 2015-1 on January 2, 2015.
    In this new ruling, ATF reverses its longstanding position that persons who machine unfinished receivers on behalf of a customer are not required to have manufacturer’s licenses. The ruling can be found on ATF’s website
    here.

    I build ARs. I build AR pistols mostly and this was in yesterdays mail. Now I will have to read this a few times to get through the batfspeak to understand it. The way it "appears" because I am not "In the business of...", because I am just a "regular Guy", I can still build and I can still have a "build party" because I am not "In the Business of....".

    Please read this over and help me interpret what this means to the "regular Guy". I do not want or can in no way afford to become an 07 FFL.

    What say You?


    Hey Grape, if this belongs in legal, please help me move it.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Just like the ATF ruled that one cannot roll your own cigarettes by renting a RYO machine w/o the business being a "manufacturer" this ruling is the same.

    A machine shop cannot complete your 80% lower w/o being a gun manufacturer.

    Not hard to understand.

    What's your difficulty?

    A moron can complete a 80% AR lower.

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    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    I'm a colored pencil and crayons type myself

    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    This is the new ATF letter.
    http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fil...unsmithing.pdf

    This explains it in english, not batfspeak.
    http://www.ammoland.com/2015/01/atf-...#axzz3O2ekW1IU

    The New Year has brought new action from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), who published ATF Rul. 2015-1 on January 2, 2015.
    In this new ruling, ATF reverses its longstanding position that persons who machine unfinished receivers on behalf of a customer are not required to have manufacturer’s licenses. The ruling can be found on ATF’s website
    here.

    I build ARs. I build AR pistols mostly and this was in yesterdays mail. Now I will have to read this a few times to get through the batfspeak to understand it. The way it "appears" because I am not "In the business of...", because I am just a "regular Guy", I can still build and I can still have a "build party" because I am not "In the Business of....".

    Please read this over and help me interpret what this means to the "regular Guy". I do not want or can in no way afford to become an 07 FFL.

    What say You?


    Hey Grape, if this belongs in legal, please help me move it.
    You may have seen this already considering the content of your post. I got a good chuckle from it and couldn't help but share.
    The following link goes to the ARES ARMOR ATF coloring book parody regarding this ruling.

    http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/1...71/e5732e8c01/

    This is right up there with a shoelace is only a shoe lace when used exclusively as a shoelace.
    And the Chore Boy pot scrubber pads.


    ~Whitney
    Last edited by Whitney; 01-06-2015 at 08:25 PM. Reason: syntax
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitney View Post
    You may have seen this already considering the content of your post. I got a good chuckle from it and couldn't help but share.
    The following link goes to the ARES ARMOR ATF coloring book parody regarding this ruling.

    http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/1...71/e5732e8c01/

    This is right up there with a shoelace is only a shoe lace when used exclusively as a shoelace.
    And the Chore Boy pot scrubber pads.


    ~Whitney

    Absolutely loved how Dimitrios tears into Jones's botched (il-)logic. The coloring book is just priceless.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    I did see on TV that in Texas a group was going to finish AR lowers at the capitol bldg ... that's fine as long as they don't give the gun to anyone.

    They were going to use a small pre-programed mill to do this ... they should do it with a mill or drill press that people can obtain for low cost...and show how easy it is to do.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    They were going to use a small pre-programed mill to do this ... they should do it with a mill or drill press that people can obtain for low cost...and show how easy it is to do.
    The mill is inexpensive and can be "borrowed" by others.

    http://www.wired.com/2014/10/cody-wilson-ghost-gunner/

    The letter from AA is very funny. He loves to poke the bear.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    The mill is inexpensive and can be "borrowed" by others.

    http://www.wired.com/2014/10/cody-wilson-ghost-gunner/

    The letter from AA is very funny. He loves to poke the bear.
    "The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home"

    A mini mill is easy enough to use ...

    http://www.harborfreight.com/two-spe...ine-44991.html

    you can get them for 400 bucks on sale at harbor freight ...

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    A mini mill is easy enough to use ...
    That's one option. There are so many ways to make a simple working firearm it's not even funny.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    That's one option. There are so many ways to make a simple working firearm it's not even funny.
    You can make a AR lower with plate stock ... and its not funny .. its fun !

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You can make a AR lower with plate stock ... and its not funny .. its fun !
    Jack sprats stuff. Gobs of welding.....or bolt together......or maybe epoxy. I am using one of his patterns as a base for a side feeding, 7.62x25, AR upper. Kind of looks like a 1919.

    The base question is the continued legality of 'rolling your own" without .gov intervention. I know they do not like it.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post

    The base question is the continued legality of 'rolling your own" without .gov intervention. I know they do not like it.
    Nice analogy and very apt.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitney View Post
    You may have seen this already considering the content of your post. I got a good chuckle from it and couldn't help but share.
    The following link goes to the ARES ARMOR ATF coloring book parody regarding this ruling.

    http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/1...71/e5732e8c01/

    This is right up there with a shoelace is only a shoe lace when used exclusively as a shoelace.
    And the Chore Boy pot scrubber pads.


    ~Whitney
    Thanks for posting this and as much as I loved the coloring book the thing that really picked me up was at the end of his letter he signed it, One of Your Restless Villagers .
    Awesome.
    I want that on velcro backed morale patches. Restless Villager. Heck with an Infadel patch. I would rock a Restless Villager patch proudly.
    Last edited by sraacke; 01-09-2015 at 07:18 AM.
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    Moreover stepping by the BATFE.

    Trying to but the cat back in the bag.

    With 3d printing, easily machine lowers they can't stop it.

    Might scare a few away from doing so.

    I just find it easier to buy free market guns with cash after two or 3 owners they are virtually untraceable. unless the buyer and seller know each other.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    http://gunssavelives.net/blog/buildi...b87d5-65817873

    At a protest planned for later this month in Austin, TX one group is planning on bringing out the Ghost Gunner machine to be able to produce firearms right on site. On top of making firearms on site, there will also be several other groups that will be protesting Texas gun laws on different dates this month. One group will be carrying long guns and handguns, while Open Carry Texas is planning an empty holster rally.

    It seems as tho the folks in Texas will be "ghost gunning" on the Capital steps.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    http://gunssavelives.net/blog/buildi...b87d5-65817873

    At a protest planned for later this month in Austin, TX one group is planning on bringing out the Ghost Gunner machine to be able to produce firearms right on site. On top of making firearms on site, there will also be several other groups that will be protesting Texas gun laws on different dates this month. One group will be carrying long guns and handguns, while Open Carry Texas is planning an empty holster rally.

    It seems as tho the folks in Texas will be "ghost gunning" on the Capital steps.
    I think the author of that article is being a little dishonest, probably trying to manufacture controversy for web page views.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    http://blog.joehuffman.org/2014/01/2...er-from-a-2x8/

    This is on Whatcom Counties faze boog page. An AR lower made from a 2x8. Cool. I would have used a harder wood than pine.
    The .gov will NEVER prevent the People from building firearms, they will just make it difficult.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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