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Thread: There is an active shooter at the El Paso VA Health Care System in El Paso

  1. #1
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    There is an active shooter at the El Paso VA Health Care System in El Paso

    The area is on lockdown, said Clarence Davis, spokesman for the William Beaumont Army Medical Center, which is adjacent to the VA facility. Updated 6:06 PM ET, Tue January 6, 2015

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/06/us/tex...ing/index.html

    https://news.google.com/news/rtc?ncl...odz7-svIMimjRM
    Last edited by Nightmare; 01-06-2015 at 06:31 PM.
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  2. #2
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    I didn't check out the links...just posting in general on a "shooter at a VA facility" event...


    Ha! I have to laugh!! Not because this is funny, but laugh in derision at those stupid signs posted at VA Medical Facilities everywhere:

    "For your protection, no guns or knives allowed."

    Sometimes the signs have crossed-out pictures of these items, just in case the pyscho-shooter (or psycho-vet) can't read...I guess.

    I had to disarm earlier this afternoon, when I had to stop by my local VACBOC/COS just to change an appointment date. Had to obey their STUPID, INEFFECTUAL sign at the front door, of course -- or else! I hate being a defenseless herd animal at the VA...or in the Post Office, or at a Social Security Office -- they're all the same: GFZs (AKA: Killing Zones). And all Federal property, too.

    In the VA waiting areas, you talk to other vets...EVERYONE KNOWS being disarmed is NOT "protecting" any of us, and if a psycho-shooter came in we'd ALL die. I even saw an Aurora, CO, police officer in the waiting room (Aurora VA medical facility) -- with an empty holster. I asked him if he felt "safer" without his gun as it was "for your protection" a per the VA's sign. He said no, and I told him I didn't either: Had to leave MY gun in the car, too, just like he did.

    And the VA's armed security is often elsewhere as it certainly is not usually seen, so it's no visual deterrent to anyone -- and I didn't see any security guys at the VA here when I visited today.

    I thought sooner or later a VA shooting would happen. And now @ the VAMC in El Paso of all places (I went there for YEARS -- my old Primary Care doctor is probably still there).

    So...stupid, naïve, feel-good, liberal/progressive/PC SIGNS that DON'T protect anyone.

    And the very same Bravo Sierra policies that don't protect active duty soldiers on assorted Air Force, Navy, Army, Marine and Coast Guard bases, either.

    I'm sure NONE of us here are surprised at that...but the suits @ the VA probably are.

    The government trusts soldiers with small arms/heavy weapons...but as soon as they're vets, it suddenly doesn't trust any of us to do something PERFECTLY LEGAL in our own states -- CARRY a personal sidearm. Or, trust active duty soldiers when they come back from a war zone to be armed on their own bases.

    Besides being HIGHLY INSULTING, it's complete and utter crap!


    But please...don't someone ask me how I REALLY feel about this...;-)
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 01-06-2015 at 11:57 PM.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

  3. #3
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    "Local reporter Bill Melugin said a coroner van has arrived at the scene. No injuries or casualties have been confirmed by officials, however.

    Meanwhile, US Rep. Beto O'Rourke reportedly told CBS4 anchor Shelton Dodson that a doctor was shot, and the shooter ended up killing himself."

    http://rt.com/usa/220371-shooting-texas-army-clinic/
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    They should put up BIGGER signs.

    problem solved.

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    Yes, I don't see how I overlooked that.

    Will be sure to put that into their on-site "Suggestion Box" -- IF I ever see one, and IF they have any official Suggestion Forms OR pencils. I mean even if you do see such a box -- like the one they DO have in the man lobby of the Michael E DeBakey VA Medical Center in Houston (MEDVAMC/Houston) -- they never have any forms or pencils!

    :-(

    ...I wonder if there's something Freudian about that...

    Oops...there I go again, being paranoid. Must remember what they always tell me: "The VA is my friend."

    Okay. The VA is my friend...the VA is my friend...the VA...
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 01-08-2015 at 05:06 PM.
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    Signs at the VA

    I don't know what you guys are talking about...

    I work at the VA in Dayton Ohio...

    Those signs have worked very well here... except for the 3 times people got shot here.

  7. #7
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    Found out the Dr killed at the El Paso VA is the brother of one of our Dallas church elders. Dr Tim Fjordbak dealt w Vets w brain injury problems, including those that were violent. Memorial service w/b here in Dallas this coming Monday.



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  8. #8
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    Until the name of the doctor was released, I thought it could be one of my old Docs (Ph.D. psychologist, not an M.D./D.O. "shrink"), as he has come close to "unpleasantness" in the past (don't know if he's still there @ VAMC/ELP though, and of course, won't give any name -- we'll call him "Dr. X" instead).

    Still, all the docs working in "Mental Health" (a wishful-thinking title?) need to be cautious of how they deal with vets ("bedside manner" if you will).

    I didn't/don't know Dr. Fjordbak, and he may have been caring and compassionate to vets (yet if so, still got shot regardless), the "Dr. X" I mentioned above wasn't so sensitive/caring. And one shrink (M.D. Psychiatrist) has (if he's still there) a reputation of not even liking vets (don't know why he works there then), which is a shame since his input for a vet's Disability Claim (based on some sort of so-called "mental disorder") -- meaning input/evidence for a vet's C&P Exam -- can either help or hurt the vet's chances of getting it through the VA Disability Claims process in his/her favor (approved) rather than the alternative (denied)...but don't ask me how I know, thank you! ;-)

    And finally, I knew THE guy at the VAMC/ELP some years back who was responsible for signs going up on the walls there, signs that said something like "All threats against staff will be taken seriously" as he decked HIS "Mental Health Care Provider." Those signs went up soon thereafter.

    I'm not talking about doctors alienating/*******-off violent vets with brain injuries, who may be on the edge to begin with, but other non-PTSD vets that are just provoked, and could turn violent in response. Especially ex-combat vets, even if apparently appearing quite "normal." Some of these doctors -- who are supposed to UNDERSTAND people and how they feel/behave -- don't seem to be as astute one would expect from such Mental Health professionals. IMO, this is one reason Psychology/Psychology seems to be stuck in the Middle Ages, as they don't seem to know much at all, even about the meds they use on vets. It all still seems so "experimental" as they employ "trial & error" most of the time. And in some case, a vet actually has to suggest his/her own treatment possibilities. In other cases, a vet is simply dumped into Group Therapy because the Doc really doesn't know what to do with a particular vet, so he/she just passes the "hot potato" vet off to someone/someplace else. But at least those assorted "health care providers" can justify their job, I mean without these vets they wouldn't HAVE one, at least at the VA.

    In short, it often seems like these "Mental Health Care Professionals" don't really KNOW anything. :-(

    Anyway, as I said earlier, after this incident (don't know why there are not MANY more, or maybe, we just don't HEAR about them as they are kept "in-house") I would expect "security" at VA Mental Health clinics, if not the whole building, may be "upgraded." And as we all know, although it may make such incidents harder, it won't stop them. So everyone in the building, staff and veterans, are still at risk.

    I expect a supplemental sign going up at the VA shortly...just below the one saying "For your protection, no guns or knives allowed" :

    "Caution...you are entering a NHZ (No Hitting Zone)!"

    Yes...I think that should do it. Security upgrade completed...and it didn't cost the VA much $$, either. ;-)


    But personally -- and probably like EVERYONE here, vets and "civilians" alike -- I'd rather take care of my OWN security...even though that will never be allowed. :-(
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 01-10-2015 at 11:18 PM.
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    Not to drag this thread too far off topic, but----

    For all Government offices this could be a motto to display in all offices---

    "If you came here expecting quick and effective rendering of service, YOU CAME TO THE WRONG PLACE!
    This is a Government Agency"

    Or

    "The only thing we do quickly is VIOLATE RIGHTS!"
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    There was another sign I used to see regularly some years ago throughout the VAMC/ELP, but then they kind of disappeared. It was a quote from Gen. Omar Bradley, who was involved with the VA on several occasions, and seemed to be connected to it the rest of his life. Even spent his last years on the WBAMC property (part of Ft. Bliss in El Paso, TX). Maybe the signs were only at the El Paso VA, due to the "Bradley connection" with Texas, not sure. I know an VAMC/ELP auxiliary building is named the Bradley Building in his honor.

    Anyway, the signs said:

    "We are dealing with veterans, not procedures; with their problems, not ours." -- Gen. Omar Nelson Bradley

    ...I think he had a pretty good view re: how the VA was SUPPOSED to be oriented. Not sure the VA has had such an advocate of taking care of vets like he was. Some have given lip service, but for a lot of us vets, we're not sure they really care. But Bradley did.

    On the rare occasion some care-less/attitude VA desk clerk was giving me some flack, I'd just point at that sign...and remind them I (a vet) was not there for THEIR convenience, they were there for MINE.


    Okay...end of being O-T...
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 01-13-2015 at 12:28 PM.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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