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Thread: Gen. Thomas McInerney on Paris attack: ‘Political correctness is killing us’

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    Gen. Thomas McInerney on Paris attack: ‘Political correctness is killing us’

    By Cheryl K. Chumley - The Washington Times - Updated: 12:52 p.m. on Wednesday, January 7, 2015

    Retired U.S. Air Force Lt. Gen. Thomas McInerney had a blunt assessment of the terror attacks that killed at least 12 in Paris on Wednesday, telling a Fox News audience that a major driver of the violence was that those in positions of leadership refused to face the realities of radicalized Islam.

    “Political correctness is killing us,” he told “Fox & Friends,” adding that the nation’s leaders needed to wake up to the dangers of the religion in order to keep America safe.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...n-paris-terro/
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    France has pulled far ahead of us in not catering to PC BS. Google burka and France.

    Besides, PC BS is killing folks who are not permitted to defend themselves with a gat...go figure that a "general" wouldn't get that, or point that out if he does get it.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    I read that some cops pulled up on "push bikes" (what the heck are those?) and left -- because they were unarmed.

    And wasn't that cop who was shot like a dog on the sidewalk unarmed also?

    Absolutely pathetic...

    And the article said that due to it's anti-Islamic publications, the newspaper building had "police protection." Does anyone here want that kind of "police protection?"

    I know if *I* worked there, I'd have a gun ON me...legal or not. Not only because where I worked could come under attack (more likely than terrorists, however, I'd expect a bomb would be planted) but I also could be attacked when leaving/arriving home. And the attackers had a hit-list of NAMES of people they wanted to kill...so they probably also knew where everyone on said list lived. And maybe even their family member names, too.

    The staff on the 2nd floor heard the shots below and could have prepared to "engage" the assailants when they got up the stairs -- IF they had been armed, but they weren't. All they could do was die.

    True, dying IS a "response" to an attack, but would not be MY preferred response. ;-)

    Socialist France...how's that embracing diversity working for you?

    And yes, it sure can happen HERE in PC/Liberal-Progressive America, also...at ANY time terrorists choose. It'd be SO EASY, despite most people thinking they are "protected" by "the authorities." They aren't.

    At least an armed American citizen has a chance to fight back in a case like this one...
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 01-07-2015 at 02:02 PM.
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    Why didn't the people dial 911?

    That would have saved them !

    (sarcasm)

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    112, not 911, they likely did dial 112 and look what that got them...read cloudcroft's post.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Push bike = bicycle. Most nation states to do not equip their metropolitan police with MRAP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    I read that some cops pulled up on "push bikes" (what the heck are those?) and left -- because they were unarmed.

    And wasn't that cop who was shot like a dog on the sidewalk unarmed also?

    Absolutely pathetic...

    And the article said that due to it's anti-Islamic publications, the newspaper building had "police protection." Does anyone here want that kind of "police protection?"

    I know if *I* worked there, I'd have a gun ON me...legal or not. Not only because where I worked could come under attack (more likely than terrorists, however, I'd expect a bomb would be planted) but I also could be attacked when leaving/arriving home. And the attackers had a hit-list of NAMES of people they wanted to kill...so they probably also knew where everyone on said list lived. And maybe even their family member names, too.

    The staff on the 2nd floor heard the shots below and could have prepared to "engage" the assailants when they got up the stairs -- IF they had been armed, but they weren't. All they could do was die.

    True, dying IS a "response" to an attack, but would not be MY preferred response. ;-)

    Socialist France...how's that embracing diversity working for you?

    And yes, it sure can happen HERE in PC/Liberal-Progressive America, also...at ANY time terrorists choose. It'd be SO EASY, despite most people thinking they are "protected" by "the authorities." They aren't.

    At least an armed American citizen has a chance to fight back in a case like this one...
    It's almost as if you are saying only a gun would have been worthwhile.

    There are literally half a dozen deadly flail weapons on the average cubicle farm desktop, Get a few folks to meet & greet the attackers at natural chokepoints (stairwell doors, elevator doors) negates a lot of the power a firearm has at greater than hands-on distance. It's difficult to get folks to recognize those things as weapons unless they already have some of the mindset. It's even harder to get any reasonable number of folks to get together and whale away at someone holding a gun.

    The gun is no talisman. At best it is a convenience for someone with the basic mindset.

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    It's almost as if you are saying only a gun would have been worthwhile.

    There are literally half a dozen deadly flail weapons on the average cubicle farm desktop, Get a few folks to meet & greet the attackers at natural chokepoints (stairwell doors, elevator doors) negates a lot of the power a firearm has at greater than hands-on distance. It's difficult to get folks to recognize those things as weapons unless they already have some of the mindset. It's even harder to get any reasonable number of folks to get together and whale away at someone holding a gun.

    The gun is no talisman. At best it is a convenience for someone with the basic mindset.
    Yup. It isn't like citizens/subjects of most nations are having horribly oppressive laws imposed on them by some dictatorial regime. No doubt, there is always a minority of freedom minded individuals who may be oppressed by the majority. But by and large, laws represent majority culture; this seems especially true when it comes to gun laws.

    In other words, it isn't that populations are defenseless because of oppressive restrictions on their RKBA, rather, they have oppressive restrictions on RKBA because of the cultural (majority) mindset about use of force. The same mindset that leads to oppressive gun laws creates defenselessness.

    Charles

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Get a few folks to meet & greet the attackers at natural chokepoints (stairwell doors, elevator doors) negates a lot of the power a firearm has at greater than hands-on distance.
    Great observation we fail to remember. Ever since the 9/11 induced security theater at airports, I've contended that in the confined space of a commercial airliner, you could give a bad guy a fully loaded handgun and even against "unarmed" fellow passengers, he'd not be able to hijack a jet today.

    He'd only get off a few rounds before his fellow passengers rushed him and he ended up at the bottom of a very unpleasant, possibly fatal dog pile. A couple of passengers would be wounded, a couple more potentially killed, but no hijacking. Worst case, a well placed or lucky couple of shots kill the pilots or manage to take out some critical system and bring the plane down. But it seems a surface to air missile or sabotaging fuel supplies would far easier and more reliable for that. And in any event, I think it highly unlikely to ever see a hijacker again able to use a commercial airliner as a guided missile....at least until the "hijacker" is actually the pilot.

    And that with the passenger disarmed and the would-be hijacker having a fully loaded, full sized firearm.

    Airport security should be looking for non-paying passengers and for explosive materials. Firearms and pocket knives really don't seem a rational concern to me at this point.

    Charles

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    It's almost as if you are saying only a gun would have been worthwhile.

    There are literally half a dozen deadly flail weapons on the average cubicle farm desktop, Get a few folks to meet & greet the attackers at natural chokepoints (stairwell doors, elevator doors) negates a lot of the power a firearm has at greater than hands-on distance. It's difficult to get folks to recognize those things as weapons unless they already have some of the mindset. It's even harder to get any reasonable number of folks to get together and whale away at someone holding a gun.

    The gun is no talisman. At best it is a convenience for someone with the basic mindset.

    stay safe.
    Dude, they're French.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Dude, they're French.
    Yes, our most senior allies in revolution. Thomas Jefferson championed their cause, at some personal expense, against closer ties with the English monarchy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Yes, our most senior allies in revolution. Thomas Jefferson championed their cause, at some personal expense, against closer ties with the English monarchy.
    And Washington was prudent enough to keep us the heck out of their revolution.

    We were the enemy of their enemy far more than anything else during the revolution. Our revolution, our freedom from England, was widely seen as a convenient stepping stone to opening up the Western Hemisphere to far more French power as everyone expected us to devolve into anarchy shortly after we threw off the British Crown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Dude, they're French.
    While there is some discussion about whether or not DeGaulle really did or did not liberate Paris and then the rest of the country, few discount the attitude and accomplihments of the Maquis.

    There's usually one or two folks in any setting who know how and are willing to take on The Enemy. It's harder to get a significant number of them together for a one-off incident.

    Tell the French that the Muslims are behind the EU attempt to stop the production of cheese outside of sterile industrial facilities and watch the carnage begin. It's all about motivation.

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ... they likely did dial 112 and look what that got them...
    "Please send cops so that we don't have to die alone!"
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    Lieutenant General McInerny's "the nation’s leaders needed to wake up to the dangers of the religion in order to keep America safe" is right on target. This isn't a problem with "radicals," though. They're simple the one's who've stepped up to the plate and taken action... thus far.

    Here's the reality, and it's very, very scary: Direct surveys have confirmed that more than half of all Muslims are radicalized, fully supporting and willing to contribute to the acts of terrorism we've see thus far. The idea that only a tiny minority of Muslims are radical is a horrendous myth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Push bike = bicycle. Most nation states to do not equip their metropolitan police with MRAP.
    What is this foolishness?! Are you trying to tell me, that there are actually nations who DON'T supply their provincial/municipal police agencies with military surplus vehicles? Good thing we live in a nation where the sheriff of a county of 4000 people has a MRAP humvee!

    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Dude, they're French.
    Oh dude totally, I hear what you're saying man, gotta leave it to the French to be showin' tha' world how to lead from tha' rear, eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudcroft View Post
    I read that some cops pulled up on "push bikes" (what the heck are those?) and left -- because they were unarmed.

    And wasn't that cop who was shot like a dog on the sidewalk unarmed also?

    Absolutely pathetic...

    And the article said that due to it's anti-Islamic publications, the newspaper building had "police protection." Does anyone here want that kind of "police protection?"

    I know if *I* worked there, I'd have a gun ON me...legal or not. Not only because where I worked could come under attack (more likely than terrorists, however, I'd expect a bomb would be planted) but I also could be attacked when leaving/arriving home. And the attackers had a hit-list of NAMES of people they wanted to kill...so they probably also knew where everyone on said list lived. And maybe even their family member names, too.

    The staff on the 2nd floor heard the shots below and could have prepared to "engage" the assailants when they got up the stairs -- IF they had been armed, but they weren't. All they could do was die.

    True, dying IS a "response" to an attack, but would not be MY preferred response. ;-)

    Socialist France...how's that embracing diversity working for you?

    And yes, it sure can happen HERE in PC/Liberal-Progressive America, also...at ANY time terrorists choose. It'd be SO EASY, despite most people thinking they are "protected" by "the authorities." They aren't.

    At least an armed American citizen has a chance to fight back in a case like this one...
    France is a Socialist Republic? That's not really what the C.I.A. world factbook, and other informational archivist panels say, perhaps you have the experiance of being a French nationale, and having served within the French Government? No? Huh, then let's just categorize your remark as being that of 'just another American loud-mouth', shall we?

    Conventional Long Form [name]: French Republic.
    Conventional Short Form [Name]: France.
    Government type: Republic.

    Constitution: Oct. 4th, 1958, French Constitution, latest revision, 2013.

    Legal system: Civil Law; Judicial review of the Administrative, but not of Legislative acts.

    Chief of State: President.
    Head of Government: Prime Minister.

    Cabinet is a Council of Ministers that are appointed BY the President, AT THE RECOMMENDATION of the Prime Minister.

    Elections: President elected to a 5-year term, Two-terms max.

    Legislative Branch: Parliament, consisting of; Senate, which comprises of ELECTED officials from the French Mainland, French over-seas territory, and even French nationals abroad. National Assembly, 577 Seats, 555 for the Single-member majority system [Our system, first past-the-post, winner takes all type election for reps/sens.]

    Judicial Branch: Court of Cessation [Supreme Court], followed by appelate and district/provencial courts.

    Main/prominant parties of France:

    Europe Ecology [Greens]
    French Communist Party [Commies, boo!]
    Left Front Coalition [Socialists, boo!]
    Left Party [Democrats]
    Left Radical Party [Radical Socialists, think Socialists, but more militant and less about peace]
    Movement for France [Nationalist party]
    National Front [Republicans, with KKK sentiment for non-french]
    New Anticapitalist Party [Democrats on steroids]
    New Center [Think independants, but more avant-garde]
    Radical Party [Think Libertarians, but more radical]
    Rally for France [Nationalists, think Nationalist spain, franco's spain, but less nazi, and more equality].
    Republican and Citizen Movement [People who like the Republican form of government]
    Socialist Party [Socialists, Boo!]
    United Republic [Like the RCM, but with a shorter name]
    Union for a Popular Movement [Rebels without a cause]
    Union des Democrates et Independants [People who are too hipster to have a English translation to their party name, also Independants]
    Worker's Struggle [Pro-union party, really loves labour unions].

    Anthem: La Marseillaise [Seriously, this song makes our's sound timid, like, HOW can a nation who has a gorey anthem, be so Socialist and cowardly?!]

    My point?

    France isn't a Socialist nation, no more than the United States is a socialist country. France has MORE political parties represented in their legislative, and administrative [executive] branches, than the U.S.; They also have DIFFERENT political parties for DIFFERENT political aptitudes. The U.S. has Republicans, and Democrats, and a Independant party that no one takes seriously. Like most nations, France has a Constitution, like ours, unlike ours though, the French constitution is updated, and amended almost on a yearly basis. French citizens, unlike us, are more prone to protesting against, or for, certain causes and actions, for or against, the government, than we are. There is LITERALLY a friggen protest en masse, in France, every other week. The last time we had a protest en masse was in the 1960s. Unlike We the People, the French citizens are represented in their legislature, no matter if they live in Mexico, or a French Territory, and French law allies in all French holdings. The U.S. Constitution does NOT apply in Peurto Rico, or the Marshall Islands, people elected to Congress from Puerto Rico, don't get to vote in laws/bills, U.S. Territorial residents are U.S. citizens, but their votes don't contribute to any Presidential elections.

    No, the French people don't have a right to own guns, but ya know what they do have? a Government that is reminded on an almost weekly basis, that the citizens can shut sh*t down. Ya know what we have in the U.S.? 400 million citizens who fear the Goverment, and it's agents, more than their mythical 'gods'.

    Compared to France, and a number of other countries in the world, the U.S. is a socialist nation, because our people happily accept whatever the government shoves down their throats, and are happy to let the government dictate what We the People can and can't do. For a nation that is almost 1600 years old, I'd say the nation, and the people of France, know a thing or two more about what it's government type is, than a nation whose Government gets to do whatever it wishes, so long as it lets the people think their gun rights would stop it from doing as it pleases.
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Lieutenant General McInerny's "the nation’s leaders needed to wake up to the dangers of the religion in order to keep America safe" is right on target. This isn't a problem with "radicals," though. They're simple the one's who've stepped up to the plate and taken action... thus far.

    Here's the reality, and it's very, very scary: Direct surveys have confirmed that more than half of all Muslims are radicalized, fully supporting and willing to contribute to the acts of terrorism we've see thus far. The idea that only a tiny minority of Muslims are radical is a horrendous myth.
    And here's another reality, Christians aren't innocent on the stage of modern events and past history. Looking at Muslims, and Islam with distaste and prejudice, while we have people of other faiths, mainly christian/christendom, doing the same sh*t, openly, or covertly, is kinda pointless.

    Let's just get it out into the open, the only reason people hate on Islam, is because of religion. My religion says yours is wrong, so I'm going to blow up and kill your people; well MY religion says yours is wrong, so I'm going to geet all my people to hate on you! well OUR religion, blah, blah, blah.

    It's not Muslims who are to blame, it's religion in general. You guys want this crap to stop? then it's time to relegate your mythos into the annals of childhood stories, and move on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    ...France isn't a Socialist nation, no more than the United States is a socialist country...
    Well, there's your problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    And here's another reality, Christians aren't innocent on the stage of modern events and past history.

    ...

    It's not Muslims who are to blame, it's religion in general. ...
    Or more accurately, bad adherents of those religions.

    It was earlier in my own generation that the most famous terrorists on the planet were Irish Catholics.
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    DrakeZ07,

    Just an FYI to you here:

    France IS leftist/socialist...and many so-called "Americans" want this country to be leftist/socialist also. America may be on its way to that end, but there are still a lot of conservatives here to make that difficult. Still, conservatives are an ever-increasing minority so eventually, America will probably end up like France, the UK, Germany, Scandinavia, and other "Western Europe" leftist/socialist countries. But not now.

    You're also wrong about religion -- especially Christianity -- but like politics, neither topic is gun-related so I won't speak further on it as this thread would get even further OT.

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    MAC702,

    "Terrorist" is just a word -- could mean anything and apply to anyone. It may come to pass that someday, we all here -- and those on other such "gun forums" -- will be declared "terrorists" by our own government and then "persecuted." Perhaps a huge Coliseum will be built in DC and we will be fed to lions, tigers and bears. Oh, my! ;-)

    But hopefully, that will be after I am gone...although I've lived too long already and would have preferred not to see what America has become even at THIS point in time. ;-)
    Last edited by cloudcroft; 01-08-2015 at 04:42 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    And here's another reality, Christians aren't innocent on the stage of modern events and past history. Looking at Muslims, and Islam with distaste and prejudice, while we have people of other faiths, mainly christian/christendom, doing the same sh*t, openly, or covertly, is kinda pointless.
    You do realize the Islamic Crusades went on for 460 years before Christians began retaliating, right? Doesn't sound like it.

    Let's just get it out into the open, the only reason people hate on Islam, is because of religion.
    Not in the least. I respect Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Shikism, and a whole bunch of others.

    I do not respect Islam because Islam is the only one who beheads innocent men, women, and children who either refuse to convert, or often, for no reason other than the shock value it'll generate in the news. I do not respect Islam because they're terrorists. The other religions: not terrorists. Islam: terrorists.

    Is that out in the open enough for you, Drake?

    It's not Muslims who are to blame, it's religion in general.
    Keep drinking that cool-aide, Drake. I'm sure it'll keep you nice and safe when they're knocking on your door.

    Not. Under Islam, homosexuality is a capital crime. They hang gays.

    Last time I checked, such was not the case under any of the other religions, including Christianity.

    Back to the topic, Lt Gen McInerney was right on target, and it's the PC drivel (along with the utterly incorrect historical "factoids" you let fly) which continue to foster this disease.
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    The Donald apparently called it like he saw it.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-gun-laws.html
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Back to the topic, Lt Gen McInerney was right on target, and it's the PC drivel (along with the utterly incorrect historical "factoids" you let fly) which continue to foster this disease.
    +1

    Yes, there are Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and adherents of all faiths that behave poorly, even abominably. But since the Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland basically stopped killing each other one is hard pressed to find groups engaged in violence in the name of these other religions. And when some individual or very small group (Westboros, for example) claims that bad conduct is justified or required by one of these religions, we have no shortage of other members and leaders of these faiths making clear how wrong they are. I don't claim to know how many muslims do or don't support terrorism or forced conversions to what degree. I believe that not nearly enough muslims nor islamic leaders condemn bad conduct conducted in the name of islam.

    Anyone who thinks religion is a problem, or that atheism leads to peace and harmony is grossly ignoring history. The most horrific regimes in all of history have all been official atheist....and communist. I'm not suggesting that atheists cannot be good, moral people. Most are, I believe. But from the USSR to Communist China, to Southeast Asia, the evidence is pretty clear that removing all religious influence from government is no guarantee of respect for human rights.

    Charles

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    And here's another reality, Christians aren't innocent on the stage of modern events and past history.
    Do tell of the recent and massive acts of terrorism or other violence committed by Christians. In other words, citations requested. Let me give you a few that undermine your thesis.

    The entire modern campaign of the IRA resulted in fewer than 4000 deaths. And the IRA has even apologized for the deaths it caused to non-combatants in its campaign to unite Ireland.

    The inquisition is credibly estimated to have killed somewhere around 5,000 over the course of several hundred years, and even the Huffington Post claims only "tens of thousands."

    Death totals from the crusades and even the Spanish conquest of South America are almost certainly, usually grossly over-estimated as the use of numbers was fundamentally different then than now with "10,000" being used as a qualitative or synonym for "many" more than being a quantitative value in medieval times.

    None of this is to say that Christianity has not had some very dark periods. It is merely to put into perspective that modern atheist and communist states have murdered some 100 million persons in just about 100 years. Officially atheistic communism has arguable killed more innocent persons than any other ideology.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Let's just get it out into the open, the only reason people hate on Islam, is because of religion. My religion says yours is wrong, so I'm going to blow up and kill your people; well MY religion says yours is wrong, so I'm going to geet all my people to hate on you! well OUR religion, blah, blah, blah.
    I request citations of any notable, modern examples of significant sects of Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, or Zoaist calling for the murder of others based on their religious affiliation.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    It's not Muslims who are to blame, it's religion in general. You guys want this crap to stop? then it's time to relegate your mythos into the annals of childhood stories, and move on.
    It is no less offensive to refer to individuals' sacred, peaceful beliefs as "childhood stories" than it would be to refer to homosexuals as "sodomites" or to homosexual conduct as "deviant". You are entitled to your opinions and beliefs. You are not entitled to express them in offensive ways among civil company. Bigotry against religion is no less offensive than racial bigotry.

    Charles

  25. #25
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Its amusing how some christians ignore the crimes of some christians by using the word "recent".

    Of course manifest destiny and the imperial after affects leading to things like the slaughter of 200,000 filipinos are ignored.

    This is no attack on christians, just a reminder of the rafter and eye thing. Religion or ideology isn't really the problem its people who abuse or act in the name of it that are.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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