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Thread: Confrontation Between Pro-Gun Activists and Texas Democrat

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    Confrontation Between Pro-Gun Activists and Texas Democrat

    Pro-gun activists descended upon the Texas Capitol on Tuesday to support a new bill that would legalize the open carry of handguns in the Lone Star State. During their demonstration, some of the advocates reportedly ambushed a Democratic lawmaker in his office and other representatives who refused to support the bill.

    Members of the Tarrant County chapter of Open Carry Texas reportedly confronted Representative Poncho Nevarez (D-Eagle Pass) in his office and questioned him about his stance on the open carry bill and the Second Amendment. The exchange quickly turned tense after the Democrat refused to support their cause.

    “The Constitution… is coming to Texas,” one of the activists is heard saying on video.
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015...der-so-pissed/

    ATTABOY 'JOHN WAYNE' KEEP UP THE PRESSURE! Can't believe Texans have to go through this! TEXAS?
    Last edited by Law abider; 01-14-2015 at 06:19 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Can't believe Texans have to go through this! TEXAS?
    I know. It's almost like Texas is finally ready to stop being an anti-gun ****hole of Californian proportions.

    I wait with bated breath.
    Last edited by marshaul; 01-14-2015 at 06:22 PM.

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    There's a sharper and more accurate epithet for Poncho than democrat...

    I just noticed Eagle Pass. That's where the braceros that I worked with in the Sixties came from, good people back then. Angelito spoke enough Texican and I spoke enough Mexican that we kept the boss happy, one of the L's in VALLCO.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 01-14-2015 at 06:26 PM.
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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Pro-gun activists descended upon the Texas Capitol on Tuesday to support a new bill that would legalize the open carry of handguns in the Lone Star State. During their demonstration, some of the advocates reportedly ambushed a Democratic lawmaker in his office and other representatives who refused to support the bill.

    Members of the Tarrant County chapter of Open Carry Texas reportedly confronted Representative Poncho Nevarez (D-Eagle Pass) in his office and questioned him about his stance on the open carry bill and the Second Amendment. The exchange quickly turned tense after the Democrat refused to support their cause.

    “The Constitution… is coming to Texas,” one of the activists is heard saying on video.
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015...der-so-pissed/

    ATTABOY 'JOHN WAYNE' KEEP UP THE PRESSURE! Can't believe Texans have to go through this! TEXAS?
    The confrontational children are not members of OCT or any chapter of OCT. They are not members of a Tarrant County chapter of OCT. They are part of a completely autonomous and unaffiliated organization called Open Carry Tarrant County.

    In other news, Lone Star Gun Rights cordially handed out petitions to various representatives showing signatures of each representative's constituents in support of HB195. Additionally, Come And Take It drew some attention by unveiling their Ghost Gunner machine and manufacturing a lower* receiver right there at the capitol. There are other progresses being made as well, let's focus on the good.

    *Edited for correct part being made.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 01-15-2015 at 08:09 AM.
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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Is it true like MOM$ said , that the chicken secretions, installed panic buttons because the citizens scared them
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
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    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    The confrontational children are not members of OCT or any chapter of OCT. They are not members of a Tarrant County chapter of OCT. They are part of a completely autonomous and unaffiliated organization called Open Carry Tarrant County.

    In other news, Lone Star Gun Rights cordially handed out petitions to various representatives showing signatures of each representative's constituents in support of HB195. Additionally, Come And Take It drew some attention by unveiling their Ghost Gunner machine and manufacturing an upper receiver right there at the capitol. There are other progresses being made as well, let's focus on the good.
    We rightly pile on the bad apples among the cops, and onto the good cops who provide cover for the bad apples among them.

    I'm among those who believes that moderate/sensible Muslims have an obligation to speak out more forcefully against the radicals/jihadists if they don't want the terrorists to define the religion of Islam.

    Can we hold ourselves to any lower standard and retain our integrity?

    The old liberal saw of "no enemies to the left" is good. We ought not eat our own simply because they exercise their rights a little differently than we do or occupy a different part of the political landscape than we do. But there is truly bad conduct that needs to be condemned by those who don't want that conduct to reflect on the larger group of which they are a part.

    Not only is incivility in such cases as described unproductive, it is also indicative of weakness. If I have the votes to take a seat from an incumbent, I can be the most pleasant person in the world. I will show him all the respect his office deserves as I defeat him in the next election and take that office from him. If I have the votes to unseat him, the odds are very good I'll quickly have his vote on my bills. If I don't have the votes to unseat him, why would I waste my breath being unpleasant and giving my enemies any ammo to use against me.

    "An armed society is a polite society" should show through in all we do.

    And those among us who violate this credo with elected government officials, should be denounced publicly lest they tarnish the image of all gun owners/activists.

    Then, either defeat the SOB in the next election, or make him such a minority in the legislature with his anti-RKBA views that his time there is miserable.

    Charles

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Utbagpiper, well said sir.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Can't believe Texans have to go through this! TEXAS?
    Texas is part of the Old South and has some Jim Crow era gun laws to shed. That the stereotype doesn't quite match up to reality simply demonstrates that some stereotypes are flawed.

    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I know. It's almost like Texas is finally ready to stop being an anti-gun ****hole of Californian proportions.
    On the flip side, to suggest that a ban on Openly Carrying puts a shall-issue State like Texas in the same realm as Cali is an unsupportable assertion. If I'm not mistaken, Florida still has an effective ban on OCing of guns carried pursuant to a permit to carry. And we all owe Florida a vote of thanks for starting the whole modern shall issue trend that is now moving toward Constitutional Carry. We are down to only about 10 States that retain discriminatory issue. They rightly deserve their own category of abject hostility to meaningful statutory recognition of our rights.

    Like all States, there is work to do in Texas. But they are no where close to California as best I understand.

    Charles

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, Florida still has an effective ban on OCing of guns carried pursuant to a permit to carry. And we all owe Florida a vote of thanks for starting the whole modern shall issue trend that is now moving toward Constitutional Carry.
    Perhaps. But I live in and travel throughout the South, and I find Florida to be second only to South Carolina in onerousness, and as a practical matter neither is a huge improvement on California (at least, as a visitor).

    Texas isn't, for a visitor, much better than California (although you can at least carry your OC rifle loaded in Texas), and yet most Texans act like it's the most pro-gun place on Earth. As long as they're gonna be "all hat and no cattle" in that regard, I won't give them due credit.
    Last edited by marshaul; 01-14-2015 at 10:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Perhaps. But I live in and travel throughout the South, and I find Florida to be second only to South Carolina in onerousness, and as a practical matter neither is a huge improvement on California (at least, as a visitor).

    Texas isn't, for a visitor, much better than California (although you can at least carry your OC rifle loaded in Texas), and yet most Texans act like it's the most pro-gun place on Earth. As long as they're gonna be "all hat and no cattle" in that regard, I won't give them due credit.
    I'm all for pushing back when someone is making claims that are outrageous (as might be obvious). But I think the biggest objection one can have for Texas is that their gun laws don't live up to their image.

    Do Florida, South Carolina, or Texas make you a criminal simply because your magazine holds more than 8 or 10 rounds or whatever the limit is in Cali?

    Do any of these three ban various guns based on cosmetic features?

    Do any of them have any cases where a loaded magazine "near" an unloaded gun, actually constitutes a loaded gun in violation of law as Cali seems to have?

    Texas and Florida both honor my Utah carry permit. Cali and South Carolina do not.

    I'm thinking there are some objective and important differences between Texas/Florida (at least) and Cali.

    Charles

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Additionally, Come And Take It drew some attention by unveiling their Ghost Gunner machine and manufacturing an upper receiver right there at the capitol. <snip>
    Whoa ... an upper? Not a lower? I thought that they were going to make a gun (ie lower)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    I'm all for pushing back when someone is making claims that are outrageous (as might be obvious). But I think the biggest objection one can have for Texas is that their gun laws don't live up to their image.

    Do Florida, South Carolina, or Texas make you a criminal simply because your magazine holds more than 8 or 10 rounds or whatever the limit is in Cali?

    Do any of these three ban various guns based on cosmetic features?

    Do any of them have any cases where a loaded magazine "near" an unloaded gun, actually constitutes a loaded gun in violation of law as Cali seems to have?

    Texas and Florida both honor my Utah carry permit. Cali and South Carolina do not.

    I'm thinking there are some objective and important differences between Texas/Florida (at least) and Cali.

    Charles
    See, the thing is, I don't travel with my EBRs. I do travel with my handguns. Granted, the magazine thing only doesn't bother me because I keep a 1911 with me for personal defense. But it's always been remarkable to me that, as a practical matter, I do basically the same things in FL and SC as I do in CA (when I visit).

    I admit my statements are a reflection of my personal situation/bias. So be it. Texas is free to infringe the aspects of the RKBA I'm actually likely to use there less than California does at any time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I admit my statements are a reflection of my personal situation/bias.
    Well that clears it up.

    Charles

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Whoa ... an upper? Not a lower? I thought that they were going to make a gun (ie lower)?
    I misspoke. My mistake.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Texas is part of the Old South and has some Jim Crow era gun laws to shed. That the stereotype doesn't quite match up to reality simply demonstrates that some stereotypes are flawed.



    On the flip side, to suggest that a ban on Openly Carrying puts a shall-issue State like Texas in the same realm as Cali is an unsupportable assertion. If I'm not mistaken, Florida still has an effective ban on OCing of guns carried pursuant to a permit to carry. And we all owe Florida a vote of thanks for starting the whole modern shall issue trend that is now moving toward Constitutional Carry. We are down to only about 10 States that retain discriminatory issue. They rightly deserve their own category of abject hostility to meaningful statutory recognition of our rights.

    Like all States, there is work to do in Texas. But they are no where close to California as best I understand.

    Charles
    As a historical note; Indiana instituted a CCW law in 1934, Flori-duh copied Indiana.

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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    I'm among those who believes that moderate/sensible Muslims have an obligation to speak out more forcefully against the radicals/jihadists if they don't want the terrorists to define the religion of Islam.

    ^ this. I have a few muslim friends and all they talk about is islamphobia or the cartoons were offensive. No heartfelt condemnation for the attacks.


    At any rate, those OC activists probably werent helpful to their cause.
    Last edited by Kopis; 01-15-2015 at 02:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    As a historical note; Indiana instituted a CCW law in 1934, Flori-duh copied Indiana.
    I assume it was discriminatory-issue at that point. I thought the shall issue parade was started by Florida in '87, though some recent reading informs me that Washington State adopted a shall issue permit in '61. It seems Washington didn't really lead off on multi-State change, while Florida did. Maybe a case of Florida being the first to react to a sea change in public sentiment.

    Charles

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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Texas is part of the Old South and has some Jim Crow era gun laws to shed. That the stereotype doesn't quite match up to reality simply demonstrates that some stereotypes are flawed.



    On the flip side, to suggest that a ban on Openly Carrying puts a shall-issue State like Texas in the same realm as Cali is an unsupportable assertion. If I'm not mistaken, Florida still has an effective ban on OCing of guns carried pursuant to a permit to carry. And we all owe Florida a vote of thanks for starting the whole modern shall issue trend that is now moving toward Constitutional Carry. We are down to only about 10 States that retain discriminatory issue. They rightly deserve their own category of abject hostility to meaningful statutory recognition of our rights.

    Like all States, there is work to do in Texas. But they are no where close to California as best I understand.

    Charles
    How does government get away with doing away with the supreme law of the land: This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof...which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding. Article 6. What happened to that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    How does government get away with doing away with the supreme law of the land: This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof...which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding. Article 6. What happened to that?
    Depends on your perspective.

    Some would argue that it is nothing but rank tyranny: might makes right.

    Others might take a more charitable view and recognize that the first SCOTUS ruling to ever deal directly with RKBA (with both sides properly represented) was Heller, in 2007. Heller was then incorporated against the States by McDonald a year or two later.

    The courts are still (and probably always will be) teasing out the limits of the 1st amendment, 4th and 5th amendments, etc.

    IOW, even those of us who subscribe to a strict constructionist and/or original intent meaning of the constitution, have to concede that we've spent all of our nation's history working out exactly what the limits of government power and individual liberty are under various cases.

    On RKBA, at least, we seem to be headed the right direction.

    Charles

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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Depends on your perspective.

    Some would argue that it is nothing but rank tyranny: might makes right.

    Others might take a more charitable view and recognize that the first SCOTUS ruling to ever deal directly with RKBA (with both sides properly represented) was Heller, in 2007. Heller was then incorporated against the States by McDonald a year or two later.

    The courts are still (and probably always will be) teasing out the limits of the 1st amendment, 4th and 5th amendments, etc.

    IOW, even those of us who subscribe to a strict constructionist and/or original intent meaning of the constitution, have to concede that we've spent all of our nation's history working out exactly what the limits of government power and individual liberty are under various cases.

    On RKBA, at least, we seem to be headed the right direction.

    Charles
    Therein lies the problem: finding out the limits today. I don't know of any SCOTUS judge or otherwise except one that will look to the founders writings etc... and tradition before he bangs the gavel. I agree RKBA is heading in the right direction as it is in Alaska.
    Last edited by Law abider; 01-15-2015 at 04:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Therein lies the problem: finding out the limits today. I don't know of any SCOTUS judge or otherwise except one that will look to the founders writings etc... and tradition before he bangs the gavel. I agree RKBA is heading in the right direction as it is in Alaska.
    While far from perfect, I think the Robert's court is doing better than some predecessors in looking to black letter constitutional language and original intent. On Obamacare, I certainly wish he'd looked beyond 16th amendment unlimited power to tax to explore limits on spending the money that is collected and found the feds have no constitutional authority to run a healthcare financial plan for the general populace. But that isn't really related to guns.

    Eternal vigilance and work. Every election matters, every appointment to the bench is important. Winning the hearts and minds of our neighbors cannot be ignored.

    Charles

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    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    Texas is part of the Old South and has some Jim Crow era gun laws to shed. That the stereotype doesn't quite match up to reality simply demonstrates that some stereotypes a

    Charles
    Just a correction. the banning of rights in TX, are not Jim Crowe laws. But carpet bagger laws
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by utbagpiper View Post
    While far from perfect, I think the Robert's court is doing better than some predecessors in looking to black letter constitutional language and original intent. On Obamacare, I certainly wish he'd looked beyond 16th amendment unlimited power to tax to explore limits on spending the money that is collected and found the feds have no constitutional authority to run a healthcare financial plan for the general populace. But that isn't really related to guns.

    Eternal vigilance and work. Every election matters, every appointment to the bench is important. Winning the hearts and minds of our neighbors cannot be ignored.

    Charles
    True. I am sure you know that I was referring to Scalia. He too may not be perfect but he does look into the supposedly murky past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by papa bear View Post
    Just a correction. the banning of rights in TX, are not Jim Crowe laws. But carpet bagger laws
    You mean that the lawmakers themselves are carpet baggers? humbug! All the Texans need to do is to holster and carry all at once everywhere and put their lawmakers on notice that 2a is their permit slip. You'll have thousands upon thousands out in force and what can they do??

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    You mean that the lawmakers themselves are carpet baggers?
    Of course, what I'm about to ponder doesn't in any way lessen the South's guilt for perpetrating the enslavement of countless blacks. And, of course outright slavery is an undeniably greater crime than Jim Crow laws.

    That being made clear, it wasn't like Southern reconstruction was a purely locally-lead affair. Northerners (and carpetbaggers in particular) played ample part, a large part of which was inflaming the long-smoldering coals of mutual racial antipathy through a surreal and absurd combination of policies which can, in retrospect, only be viewed as intended to have precisely this effect. In the process they decimated the South's economy, leaving it easy pickings for wealthy carpetbagging war profiteers. Of course, this also had the incidental (but wholly predictable) effect of impoverishing nearly all blacks -- and most un-propertied whites -- which created an equally-incidental-but-wholly-predictable surge in lawlessness, which is what ultimately inspired the elites to legislatively disarm their political "inferiors".

    Indeed, in antebellum years the North was described by more than one contemporary as sometimes (rather incongruously) displaying more prevalent and virulent racism than the South, despite the latter's greater (and indefensible) preference for slavery. But then, the South of the reconstruction becomes notoriously hostile to the newly freed blacks, with institutional and cultural racism towards blacks being the absolute norm.

    To me, there sure seems to be plenty of blame to spread around. So I'm not at all sure that the difference between "carpetbagger" and "Jim Crow legislator" is especially significant; it seems that "elites" of every ilk have been all too frequently happy to use government to benefit themselves at the expense of the (explicitly or effectively) disenfranchised.

    And that's what these laws do, of course. Political and social elites don't need explicit firearm and self-defense rights to provide for their security, because they can use some combination of political and economic influence to buy themselves everything from criminal immunity to round-the-clock bodyguards. It's the rest of us -- the middle and lower classes -- who get the shaft, so to speak.
    Last edited by marshaul; 01-16-2015 at 05:07 PM.

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