WA Legislature considering banning open carry in chambers

sudden valley gunner · Jan 18, 2015

Dave Workman said:
Robert:
I've never run across someone who, when they were in genuine fear for their lives from a threat, didn't want a firearm, or at least be rescued by someone else who did.

There is a time and place for the use of violence.

I think the issue here is the use of firearms as political props in a place where the use of political props is prohibited, and everybody knows it..or at least SHOULD know it.

I keep telling people, if you want to make a political statement, rent a billboard or buy an advertisement. Firearms are emergency survival tools, not political props..

I saw a lot of people open carrying in Oly. DEROS, Halle, and I didn't even count how many others. I think Nick/gogodawgs was also packing, but to tell you the truth, I didn't really notice AND THAT'S HOW IT SHOULD BE. Nobody notices.

I've seen people kicked off gun ranges for raising rifles or carrying at low ready because they invariably swept someone with a muzzle. Not loaded? How is anyone suppose to know that if there's a mag in place?

Had there been an ND, that would have been the end of everything you and other activists here have worked for over the years. The End. Period. Finis. Finito. Done.

Over at Examiner, I'm getting comments from one or two people who allegedly don't care if they offend people or alarm them. They're (pick a sneer) so they don't matter.

Those people vote. They out voted gun people in November. A fair number of gun owners didn't vote, so someone else voted for (against) them. What they think does count, whether anyone here cares, or wants to admit it.

All this has done is ignited a pretty colorful discussion, and revealed there are some serious disagreements within the firearms community. Just because others may not see things the way you do, doesn't make them "Fudds" or "wusses" or fools or "tools" (whatever that means).

Yea the topic had evolved, to not just the guy who wasn't properly carrying.

Too when do we have enough.

I wasn't advocating violence or making excuses for guys like this.

Yet I like to discuss the serious topics like NavyLCDR brought up. He didn't like that.

I mentioned simply the "founders" didn't let things get this out of hand before they decided to use their rights.

sudden valley gunner · Jan 18, 2015

NavyLCDR said:
The American revolution did not start with a single shot heard around the world. It started with a small group of citizens who poked at the government, the government responded, a larger group of citizens opposed the government, the government responded, and so on until enough citizens with enough firepower won the battle. Can that happen in the United States today? My opinion is no, it cannot. Because the citizens have already allowed the government to kill the 2nd Amendment with infringements. I don't believe it is possible to overthrow the government by force. Does that mean that we should stop resisting the government when we feel it is necessary to do so? Absolutely not. The US Federal Government will eventually collapse under its own regulation and out of control spending just as the government of the USSR collapsed from its own spending.

+1 I would like to ad though. The people then knew their rights from the aristocrats to the rural farmer.

I also don't think its possible to overthrow with force, our biggest tool is knowledge and education. When the talk is shut down because people view one person as a fool the state has won.

I also agree it will collapse and its coming sooner than later. 200 trillion unfounded liabilities, debasing of currency, militarization of the local police, propaganda machine going full time.

twoskinsonemanns · Jan 18, 2015

sudden valley gunner said:
+1 I would like to ad though. The people then knew their rights from the aristocrats to the rural farmer.

I also don't think its possible to overthrow with force, our biggest tool is knowledge and education. When the talk is shut down because people view one person as a fool the state has won.

I also agree it will collapse and its coming sooner than later. 200 trillion unfounded liabilities, debasing of currency, militarization of the local police, propaganda machine going full time.

I think people are pleased with the way things are for the most part. The debt is just some abstract concept and I don't think people conceive that they personally can be effected by it.
Nothing will ever change until you get to the point where large amounts of people cannot get food due to super inflation or something like that. Then it will be nasty.

Bikenut · Jan 18, 2015

twoskinsonemanns said:
I think people are pleased with the way things are for the most part. The debt is just some abstract concept and I don't think people conceive that they personally can be effected by it.
Nothing will ever change until you get to the point where large amounts of people cannot get food due to super inflation or something like that. Then it will be nasty.

I've often said that nothing will happen until the TV is shut off and there isn't any more cold beer in the 'fridge. Especially when there isn't any more cold beer.

44Brent · Jan 18, 2015

Dummies (er, uh, "protestors") come in all shapes, sizes, and flavors and aren't limited to waving rifles inside the Washington gallery. In this recent example, protesters chained their arms inside of concrete barrels in order to shut down a highway in Massachusetts. http://www.wcvb.com/news/expressway-in-milton-medford-shut-down-by-protesters/30718692

Like the protestors in the Washington gallery, these protesters who shut down the highway seem to have targeted innocent bystanders for the protest. The protesters in the gallery apparently targeted lawmakers who were not responsible for passing I-594. The protestors who chained themselves inside of concrete-filled barrels targeted motorists who had nothing to do with their complaints. Both groups of protestors earned the ire of the general public.

Lesson #1: Don't be a dummy.
Lesson #2: Don't let your friends be dummies.

44Brent · Jan 18, 2015

NavyLCDR said:
Why not go all the way and compare the Washington protesors to Ferguson, MO?

Good question. I had considered that, but since there's really nothing in common between the Washington rifle carriers and the Ferguson rioters, there's nothing to compare. The Washington rifle carriers and Massachusetts protestors have much more in common as both groups probably had good moral intentions. Another thing they have in common is an inability to see how the public is going to perceive their actions, in spite of their best intentions.

1911er · Jan 18, 2015

You can believe about 100 .01 % of what the P.I. posts because the P.I. is so conservative. ( Sarcasm Off )

Dave Workman · Jan 18, 2015

sudden valley gunner said:
Yea the topic had evolved, to not just the guy who wasn't properly carrying.

Too when do we have enough.

I wasn't advocating violence or making excuses for guys like this.

Yet I like to discuss the serious topics like NavyLCDR brought up. He didn't like that.

I mentioned simply the "founders" didn't let things get this out of hand before they decided to use their rights.

Just so the record is clear, I never thought you were advocating violence, or making excuses for these folks.

I'm not entirely certain which "things" are out of hand just yet, but you'll notice one guy leaving comments over at my exam column keeps pointing people to free kentucky or some such place, telling them there is some sort of section on things that "need to be done." I get all kinds of readers. Some of 'em hate each other's guts, others carry on lucid, even fascinating conversations.

What happened in Olympia has definitely launched what may turn out to be a very instructive discussion, of which you're a key part.

Perhaps we will all learn something. On the other hand, we all may wind up :banghead:

I'm on assignment down at the SHOT Show this week.

Dave Workman · Jan 18, 2015

44Brent said:
Dummies (er, uh, "protestors") come in all shapes, sizes, and flavors and aren't limited to waving rifles inside the Washington gallery. In this recent example, protesters chained their arms inside of concrete barrels in order to shut down a highway in Massachusetts. http://www.wcvb.com/news/expressway-in-milton-medford-shut-down-by-protesters/30718692

Lesson #1: Don't be a dummy.
Lesson #2: Don't let your friends be dummies.

I had to wade down through about half of that story to figure out what these loons were protesting. Evidently, they don't believe their lives matter, because pulling a stunt like that on a busy highway could easily get you killed by a bus or semi.

I've seen some remarkably stupid stuff in my lifetime. Chaining one's self to an oil drum in a freeway lane has GOT to rank right up there near the zenith of stupidity.

MAC702 · Jan 18, 2015

Dave Workman said:
... Chaining one's self to an oil drum in a freeway lane has GOT to rank right up there near the zenith of stupidity.

I'd be careful, though. You never know who might still need a perfectly good oil drum.

amlevin · Jan 19, 2015

rapgood said:
Then you missed the 60's and 70's, Bill! (grin)

I missed the good parts. I was overseas wearing a green uniform.

Dave_pro2a · Jan 19, 2015

NavyLCDR said:
The American revolution did not start with a single shot heard around the world. It started with a small group of citizens who poked at the government, the government responded, a larger group of citizens opposed the government, the government responded, and so on until enough citizens with enough firepower won the battle. Can that happen in the United States today? My opinion is no, it cannot. Because the citizens have already allowed the government to kill the 2nd Amendment with infringements.

Well, that and the fact we currently live in a police state that is more advanced that the Soviet Union (at it's height of power).

Thanks to the WoD and WoT we are under pretty much complete surveillance. It's an Orewellian nighmare. Hitler's wet dream. It makes the Chinese seem, downright, freedom loving.

Bank records, purchase histories, phone calls, text messages, emails. All are an open book to Federal (and state) investigators. All with virtually no oversight (warrentless, or secret courts) -- you name the content/medium, and then just recognize that gov agents pown it.

(Yes, that's a REAL NSA graphic, contained within the Snowden leak and recently published by Der Spiegel)

A second American Revolution. Yeah, right. We'll be lucky if we just manage to stay out of the SuperMax prisons (America's new and improved version of gulags).

North Korea:

America:

Drink my cup of bitterness, then just stop caring about it. They will eventually tackle pre-emption. Then ban 'high-cap' mags. TEOTWAWKI already came, and it's arrival was cloaked in jingoism as people cried for 'protection.'.

twoskinsonemanns · Jan 19, 2015

44Brent said:
Dummies (er, uh, "protestors") come in all shapes, sizes, and flavors and aren't limited to waving rifles inside the Washington gallery. In this recent example, protesters chained their arms inside of concrete barrels in order to shut down a highway in Massachusetts. http://www.wcvb.com/news/expressway-in-milton-medford-shut-down-by-protesters/30718692

Like the protestors in the Washington gallery, these protesters who shut down the highway seem to have targeted innocent bystanders for the protest. The protesters in the gallery apparently targeted lawmakers who were not responsible for passing I-594. The protestors who chained themselves inside of concrete-filled barrels targeted motorists who had nothing to do with their complaints. Both groups of protestors earned the ire of the general public.

Lesson #1: Don't be a dummy.
Lesson #2: Don't let your friends be dummies.

So easy to criticize. These people got their voices heard without hurting anyone. It's easy to say they were targeting people not involved with their complaint but it's usually impossible to get access to what you want to protest against. Of course it's illegal and they will be punished for it. I salute their sacrifice to be heard.

twoskinsonemanns · Jan 19, 2015

Dave_pro2a said:
Well, that and the fact we currently live in a police state that is more advanced that the Soviet Union (at it's height of power).

Thanks to the WoD and WoT we are under pretty much complete surveillance. It's an Orewellian nighmare. Hitler's wet dream. It makes the Chinese seem, downright, freedom loving.

Bank records, purchase histories, phone calls, text messages, emails. All are an open book to Federal (and state) investigators. All with virtually no oversight (warrentless, or secret courts) -- you name the content/medium, and then just recognize that gov agents pown it.

I don't like this kind of talk. Excuse me while I put my head in the sand.

Dave_pro2a · Jan 19, 2015

twoskinsonemanns said:
I don't like this kind of talk. Excuse me while I put my head in the sand.

Now you have the right idea

It's not that ignorance is bliss, it's that ignorance is preferable to letting the truth drive you batty

And in the end, it doesn't matter all that much. Voters actually have little political power because we don't pony up the money to buy politicians.

OC Freedom · Jan 19, 2015

Dave_pro2a said:
Now you have the right idea

It's not that ignorance is bliss, it's that ignorance is preferable to letting the truth drive you batty

And in the end, it doesn't matter all that much. Voters actually have little political power because we don't pony up the money to buy politicians.

Agreed.

It's all back to loving your Country (The Founders and its documents) , but fearing the Government. We really do have legitimate reasons to fear the Government.

OC Freedom · Jan 19, 2015

twoskinsonemanns said:
So easy to criticize. These people got their voices heard without hurting anyone. It's easy to say they were targeting people not involved with their complaint but it's usually impossible to get access to what you want to protest against. Of course it's illegal and they will be punished for it. I salute their sacrifice to be heard.

I am not advocating for more gun laws or restrictions, but just the opposite. My problem with these folks in the Gallery is that they lack manners. Us older folks on this site were most likely raised to be polite and respectful towards other people and if you got out of line, well dad would help you with an attitude adjustment. This is why I listed the 4 rules of handling firearms by Jeff Cooper. These rules are not just safety rules, but also good gun etiquette for you and others around you. So tell me if any one of these rules seem oppressive or infringing upon your rights.

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

I will also add this fifth rule that I apply to myself; I your not using your firearm then KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF YOUR FIREARM.

Is this so unreasonable to expect such courtesy from other open carriers? or do I have my head up my @ss and these guys in the gallery had nothing but perfect behavior.

WA Legislature considering banning open carry in chambers

sudden valley gunner

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sudden valley gunner

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twoskinsonemanns

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Bikenut

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44Brent

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44Brent

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1911er

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Dave Workman

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Dave Workman

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MAC702

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amlevin

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Dave_pro2a

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twoskinsonemanns

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twoskinsonemanns

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OC Freedom

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OC Freedom

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