State Senate bans openly carried guns in public gallery

Dave_pro2a · Jan 19, 2015

utbagpiper said:
There is a reasonable chance that Snowden has actually engaged in espionage against our nation.

Had he blown the whistle on some illegal or even questionable NSA conduct and the high tailed it to the nearest Federal Courthouse to turn himself him, odds are very good that given the chance as a juror, I'd have voted against any criminal convictions. I'd even be reasonably sympathetic had he run off to some neutral nation to seek asylum.

But the guy headed straight for one of our most avowed and dangerous enemies: The Red Chinese. Then ran to Putin's Russia.

Well, we did divert a flight he was 'allegedly' on.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-bolivia-plane-vienna

When the king puts a price on a freedom fighter's head, any refuge is fair game.

Lovenox · Jan 19, 2015

Nightmare said:
+1

Were they not "brandishing" as per legal definition?

223to45 · Jan 19, 2015

When will these stupid OCers learn, that is not the way to do it.

Bill Starks · Jan 20, 2015

Bill45 said:
Whom ever organized the Olympia fiasco let it get out of control.

A few agitators show up and you think it was a fiasco? I was there before most anyone that morning (6:50am) to set up the sound equipment and saw a few of the (now known) agitators while I was setting up but they were chatting with others and nothing about their demeanor would have let me to believe they would be acting the way they were later in the morning. How are their actions the responsibility of the organizers? WSP got involved when their actions became disruptive. Due to the actions of the agitators, (IMHO) I believe that if WSP had started making arrests or ticketing them at that time things would have become very ugly. My question is why didn't WSP take action indoors when firearms were in violation of RCW 9.41.270 ?

Alpine · Jan 20, 2015

Bill Starks said:
A few agitators show up and you think it was a fiasco? I was there before most anyone that morning (6:50am) to set up the sound equipment and saw a few of the (now known) agitators while I was setting up but they were chatting with others and nothing about their demeanor would have let me to believe they would be acting the way they were later in the morning. How are their actions the responsibility of the organizers? WSP got involved when their actions became disruptive. Due to the actions of the agitators, (IMHO) I believe that if WSP had started making arrests or ticketing them at that time things would have become very ugly. My question is why didn't WSP take action indoors when firearms were in violation of RCW 9.41.270 ?

I feel the same way Bill. WSP really let us down by not arresting these brandishing fools and making the legislature pretend a new rule was necessary when .270 would have worked just fine. Hope you had a decent birthday after the main events were over.

OC Freedom · Jan 20, 2015

Bill Starks said:
A few agitators show up and you think it was a fiasco? I was there before most anyone that morning (6:50am) to set up the sound equipment and saw a few of the (now known) agitators while I was setting up but they were chatting with others and nothing about their demeanor would have let me to believe they would be acting the way they were later in the morning. How are their actions the responsibility of the organizers? WSP got involved when their actions became disruptive. Due to the actions of the agitators, (IMHO) I believe that if WSP had started making arrests or ticketing them at that time things would have become very ugly. My question is why didn't WSP take action indoors when firearms were in violation of RCW 9.41.270 ?

I don't blame the organizers for the poor choices in how others handle themselves and/or their firearms.

If the same or different organizers have another pro-gun type of rally in the future any where in Washington, I think maybe it should be limited to holstered handguns only.

Washington is my home state and I sure hate to see this kind of B.S. happen and giving the Antis any kind of win. This really sucks....

sudden valley gunner · Jan 20, 2015

utbagpiper said:
Perhaps you don't understand the difference between harassment and actual revolution. Warning shots are for naval vessels to prove the other guy is within range. Harassment is for those who lack the ability to actually make real change. Don't believe me? Let's see if any of these tough guys will try a repeat of their stunt in the face of simply Legislative rules to the contrary. What are they going to do when capital security shows up and orders them to surrender their weapons and places them under arrest? Shoot? Not likely. They'll comply and then bitch about how the judicial system is "rigged". Tacticool mall ninjas.

I do not believe it is time for armed revolution. The soap box, ballot box, and jury box still work well enough (not perfectly, but well enough) to effect needed change. But if someone disagrees, brandishing at the legislature is not the way to get started on revolution.

And to be clear, I'm a loyal American. Upon proper evidence I'll happily vote to convict for treason any US citizen who makes war on this nation. If necessary, I'd personal buy the ammo and pull the trigger to carry out the proper penalty for treason.

Handling guns, chambering rounds, and having sloppy muzzle control are no more a proper exercise of the 2nd amendment than slander, libel, or yelling "Fire" falsely in a crowded theater are proper exercises of the 1st amendment.

It is a real shame that some are so blinded by their own ideology that this even needs explaining.

Charles

You are really good at building up your own argument that has not a lot to do with what was said. With lots of lots of words hoping something will stick.

I will make it simple. The 2A is an implied threat. The 2A is so the people don't have to wait for the Navy.

OC Freedom · Jan 20, 2015

NavyLCDR said:
You mean like the unloaded handgun open carry in California and the long gun open carry in Texas? Might as well mention Starbucks as well.

I am not advocating for more gun laws or restrictions, but just the opposite. My problem with these folks in the Gallery is that they lack manners. Us older folks on this site were most likely raised to be polite and respectful towards other people and if you got out of line, well dad would help you with an attitude adjustment. This is why I listed the 4 rules of handling firearms by Jeff Cooper. These rules are not just safety rules, but also good gun etiquette for you and others around you. So tell me if any one of these rules seem oppressive or infringing upon your rights.

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

I will also add this fifth rule that I apply to myself; I your not using your firearm then KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF YOUR FIREARM.

Is this so unreasonable to expect such courtesy from other open carriers? or do I have my head up my @ss and these guys in the gallery had nothing but perfect behavior.

Dave_pro2a · Jan 20, 2015

Imagine how different WA would be today...

If King County hadn't helped Christine Gregoire cheat her way into the governorship.

Probably not much different, but at least the false belief that life and government are 'fair' would have remained marginally intact. Politicians do, what politicians do: attain power, expand power, screw over 'ordinary' citizens.

What does this have to do with OC in the State Senate? It would have gone away eventually no matter what did or didn't happen during a protest. Both Democrats and Republicans hate guns in civilian hands, because they fear it -- all that was needed was an excuse, and life always presents those eventually.

OC Freedom · Jan 20, 2015

Dave Pro2a, Could you imagine if these activists as shown in the link dressed like Rep. Matt Shea and followed firearms etiquette (post 55) that maybe the state representatives might have seen us in a positive light? If these folks looked and carried themselves like they belonged there instead of looking like extras from Deliverance (1972) the outcome could have been very different.

http://media.komonews.com/images/150115_Gun_Protest_2.jpg

OC Freedom · Jan 20, 2015

Nightmare said:
You are not Col. Cooper and you are not old enough to be wrapping yourself in a shroud, let alone his. Yes, you need a breath of fresh air.

Deflection...Yawn.

OC Freedom · Jan 20, 2015

NavyLCDR said:
My main point was blaming the protestors for the further infringement of our rights. It's not the protestors that are infringing upon our rights, it is the government. If the protestors' actions were so heinous as being described on this forum, the legislature didn't have to enact anything new at all - all they have to do is enforce RCW 9.41.270 and RCW 9A.76.180.

Yes, that' true, the legislature could do just that, but what we are failing at is "perception of image" and this is how as individuals and as lobbying groups is our major weakness. Show up to an interview for a job position looking like these people and see if you will pass visual appraisal test.

Primus · Jan 20, 2015

NavyLCDR said:
My main point was blaming the protestors for the further infringement of our rights. It's not the protestors that are infringing upon our rights, it is the government. If the protestors' actions were so heinous as being described on this forum, the legislature didn't have to enact anything new at all - all they have to do is enforce RCW 9.41.270 and RCW 9A.76.180.

Enforce 9.41.270 and 9A.76.180 how?

Dave_pro2a · Jan 20, 2015

OC Freedom said:
Dave Pro2a, Could you imagine if these activists as shown in the link dressed like Rep. Matt Shea and followed firearms etiquette (post 55) that maybe the state representatives might have seen us in a positive light?

The used car salesman look is really popular among politicians.

OC Freedom · Jan 20, 2015

Nightmare said:
Eeeww!

Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it - there - and remove all doubt! Bwahaha Hoist by his own petard.

More deflection. So your against dressing appropriately and using good gun handling manners while at the Capitol.

OC Freedom · Jan 20, 2015

Dave_pro2a said:
The used car salesman look is really popular among politicians.

When in Rome.

OC Freedom · Jan 20, 2015

Nightmare said:
I am against YOU deciding anything for anyone BUT yourself.

I stated my viewpoint, then asked if my viewpoint has merit (post 55) and then asked you directly (post 65), but you keep deflecting, so I'm not wasting anymore of my time on you Nightmare. When you want to discuss how we should handle ourselves at such rallies then then I'll participate with you.

Dave_pro2a · Jan 20, 2015

OC Freedom said:
When in Rome.

In that case, things to do while inside the State Senate

1) Lie
2) Cheat
3) Steal

If everyone in a room is yucking it up by telling racists jokes, that doesn't make it ok to join in.

"When in Rome," not the best maxim to universalize.

Dave_pro2a · Jan 20, 2015

NavyLCDR said:
My main point was blaming the protestors for the further infringement of our rights. It's not the protestors that are infringing upon our rights, it is the government. If the protestors' actions were so heinous as being described on this forum, the legislature didn't have to enact anything new at all - all they have to do is enforce RCW 9.41.270 and RCW 9A.76.180.

[/end thread]

They only 'had to' because they always want to erode the 2nd Amendment.

utbagpiper · Jan 20, 2015

sudden valley gunner said:
I will make it simple. The 2A is an implied threat. The 2A is so the people don't have to wait for the Navy.

Then the threat should remain implicit rather than crossing the line into an overt threat, unsafe handling, or otherwise being disruptive to the proceedings.

You don't get to walk around pointing your firearm at people you think might want to hurt you just to persuade them not to think about it. And you don't get to rack slides, point muzzles carelessly, and otherwise handle guns in way that you--if not the "protestors" themselves--think is calculated so as to cause intimidation against legislators.

Bitch all you want. Call it tyranny. It may be. But if you poke a bear don't complain when you get mauled. If you're not ready to actually start shooting, then good manners and effective political activism are recommended. False bravado against legislators clearly results in blowback. If you can leverage the legislators' anti-RKBA response to oust them from office in the next election, then some good may ultimately come from this wrong-headed display of bad conduct from gun owners. If you can't oust them even after this, then you've clearly mis-prioritized how to spend time and other resources.

Charles

State Senate bans openly carried guns in public gallery

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Banned